Chinese nationalists, Wumao Propaganda and the Rise of China

[Kellhound]

would be a terrible idea to start banging civilian infrastructure when totally out gunned. And again a complete waste or resources which can be used blasting the strait (or navy docking yards)

Not if you are attempting to deter an attack in the first place.

[jonnysensible]

Not if you are attempting to deter an attack in the first place.

we will blow up your civilian infrastructure isnt a deterrent. its a justification for CCP action.

[Kellhound]

we will blow up your civilian infrastructure isnt a deterrent. its a justification for CCP action.

Not if it is based on the idea of attacking only if attacked. Personally, I think the US should give Taiwan 1000 of our withdrawn nukes to give them a proper deterent.

[Rasulis]

Emphasis here is on the word "deterrent." It is a horrible last resort option. You don't want to use it, but you want the enemy to know that you will if cornered.

Seriously, it is a horrible option. The loss of life is estimated to be between 150 to 250 millions. Shanghai, with a population count of half of California, will be permanently under water. Dozens of major cities will be gone permanently. No sane person will want to be responsible for that.

[Yadryonych]

Not if it is based on the idea of attacking only if attacked. Personally, I think the US should give Taiwan 1000 of our withdrawn nukes to give them a proper deterent.

Can really see Chinese warheads deployed on Cuba. Chill bro, that's merely a deterrent

[Kellhound]

Can really see Chinese warheads deployed on Cuba. Chill bro, that's merely a deterrent

I would have no issue with China wasting nuclear warheads by placing them close enough to be easily intercepted with current ABM systems.

[Glorious Leader]

I would have no issue with China wasting nuclear warheads by placing them close enough to be easily intercepted with current ABM systems.

I imagine that the US government would still consider that a significant escalation and an act of aggression on the part of the ccp which I believe was the gentleman's point.

[Easo]

It seems like you don't even want to find solutions and deterrents though. No matter what people come up with you just see the CCP as an unstoppable goliath, no? Or are you critical of Rasulis's idea because it's a distraction from a better idea?

Solution/deterrant? Emm, I was quite clear that it's name is USA, in all it's forms, from demonstratively sailing carriers through the straits to attacking China in case of invasion.
IIRC Taiwan's defence strategy even is based on holding out until America comes to their aid. Imagine if they do not do that - not an impossible scenarion, especially with current state of internal USA politics. That should make a point regarding Rasulis ideas.

It is meant as a deterrent. The same with having nuclear warheads. Something that you hope you will never have to use.

As I said I believe that in 10 years time the "question" of Taiwan will be "resolved". Deterrants or not, all that buildup and propaganda has to go somewhere.

[Kellhound]

I imagine that the US government would still consider that a significant escalation and an act of aggression on the part of the ccp which I believe was the gentleman's point.

Basing SSKs there would be of a bigger concern.

[Rasulis]

As I said I believe that in 10 years time the "question" of Taiwan will be "resolved". Deterrants or not, all that buildup and propaganda has to go somewhere.

If they plan to take over Taiwan from the inside, they need to hurry before all the old Koumintangs are dead.

A Per research on how Taiwanese feel about China and US.

In Taiwan, Views of Mainland China Mostly Negative - Closer Taiwan-U.S. relations largely welcomed, especially economically

The younger generation do not identify as Chinese anymore, and the way China treats Hong Kong is a warning on the perils of trusting the CCP.

[Easo]

Yes, I am aware that each year identity of "Taiwanese" and wish for official independence increases. They are majority already, PRC can't catch that train anymore, unless something really drastic changes.

[Corvus]

China really shot itself in the foot with Hong Kong in regards to trying to convince Taiwan to reunify. There is zero chance they will believe the CCP will keep their word about sticking to a one country two systems agreement. Which leaves the CCP only one option if they are going to fulfil their promise to take Taiwan by the 100th anniversary of CCP rule.

Taiwan is the modern day version of the Sudetenland. - giving in and appeasing the CCP over it will just embolden them even more and will lead to a war.

And it turns out stoking hyper-nationalism makes you really bad sports, as the Olympics are showing. They are not taking losses easy, labelling referees as cheats, abusing athletes from other countries online, abusing their own athletes who lost for not being sincere enough in their grovelling apologies. It is bad enough when they loose to Japan, but when they lost to Taiwan, it went up to new level.

[Yadryonych]

Yes, I am aware that each year identity of "Taiwanese" and wish for official independence increases. They are majority already, PRC can't catch that train anymore, unless something really drastic changes.

"Something really drastic" would be the very secession attempt. Right now the only thing stopping China from action is that Tawan still recognises itself as a part of China

[Easo]

"Something really drastic" would be the very secession attempt. Right now the only thing stopping China from action is that Tawan still recognises itself as a part of China

I was talking about PRC trying to get people in Taiwan turn to China, which is a lost cause by now.

[Corvus]

"Something really drastic" would be the very secession attempt. Right now the only thing stopping China from action is that Tawan still recognises itself as a part of China

I think it is more China is uncertain of what the US would do in the event of a Chinese attack. If the US said they weren't getting involved then it'd be a very short period before China kicked things off.

[Yadryonych]

I was talking about PRC trying to get people in Taiwan turn to China, which is a lost cause by now.

Nothing a good old re-education camp can't solve

[Glorious Leader]

Nothing a good old re-education camp can't solve

[BronzeCondor]

I think it is more China is uncertain of what the US would do in the event of a Chinese attack. If the US said they weren't getting involved then it'd be a very short period before China kicked things off.

I could see the US and China cutting a deal and letting China take Taiwan to avoid a major conflict. Backdoor deals are nothing new to political giants. Then again, if China replaces Xi with a more Hitler-esque fanatical leader, I don't think anyone will have a choice.