The Asmongold Effect

[Caerrona]

So, what's the over/under on how long it takes for asmongold giving up on FF14 and going back to WoW like with literally every other game he's quit WoW for?

Well seeing how he has spent a literal decade shitting on wows store I fully expect him to play ff14 until he dies and than uploads his conciousness into a fucking cyborg so he can spend the next 400 years shitting on ffs store with how big it is.

[Stabbyfists]

One thing I will say, and I don't get why people always ignore it when discussing the two games, is that FFXIV's monetization is just as predatory as WoW's, if not more predatory.

For one, in WoW you can get any shop item through gold via WoW Tokens, including your subscription. WoW's shop is also pretty quaint compared to the Mog Station, in terms of what's on offer.

Both have cosmetic mounts and pets, but the mounts and pets in WoW are consistently $25 and $10, while in FFXIV they have a bunch of different mounts that cost up to $40. FFXIV also has a variety of cosmetic transmog items, old event items, furniture, emotes, etc. And FFXIV also has pets that can only be obtained by buying the $50 OSTs.

I just don't get why people let FFXIV slide on its microtransactions but double down on attacking WoW's, often in the same breath.

1. You cannot buy gil in FFXIV. The first level skip gives you 500k, but thats not all that much in terms of FFXIV.

2. Skipping Leveling and Story often ends up ruining the game because the majority of the game is not endgame, its the journey TO endgame. This used to be the case in Vanilla and Classic but now, its all endgame, which is reflected by the predatory systems designed to monopolize your time and keep you logged in every day. Also, as far as I know, the level skip can only be used on COMBAT jobs. It cannot be used on things like Crafting, or Gathering Jobs. You also cannot trade a majority of items found from dungeons in FFXIV and they're not worth much gil. So if you are caught botting, its usually way worse than getting banned in wow. With the Advent of Level skips in WoW and the fact dungeon and gold farming is horrible for the ingame economy, thats why people bash on WoW's Skips vs FFXIVs.

3. Yoshi P recently came out on the Shop and said that the things bought in the shop will be used to fund the game going forward. If you think subscriptions are enough to fund a MMORPG then you're deluding yourself. He also promised the items coming to FFXIV will be COSMETIC only with no stats and said "NO PAY TO WIN"

4. The Shop is not accessible in the game. Thats a HUGE thing. The shop is only available through a website and not in the game. This makes it leagues less predatory to players as some players are not even aware it exists.

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His criticism is already growing, I hope the Manchild McRatface Fanboys still won't come back. Less crap players are good for WoW, and the game has not lost anything different.

Know what else is good for wow? Treating your employees like human beings and not pleasure holes. Dear lord I felt sick to my stomach reading that lawsuit.

[Stabbyfists]

This all reads like heavy-duty copium, though.

The two shops aren't actually all that different. If anything, XIV's is significantly larger. It's fine to prefer one game over the other, but lets keep ourselves grounded in reality.

Its not Copium, its the truth

Dungeons do not give you significant gil, Dungeon Drops do not give you significant gil. You earn gil from crafting and gathering materials and creating food + Questing. You cannot BUY a token you trade for in game currency. You also cannot buy level skips for the gathering and crafting professions aka the biggest money makers in the game.

Meanwhile, I am certain the botting situation on TBC Classic has gotten WAY better since now you don't have to level from 1 - 60 anymore...oh....wait...

Before you accuse someone of copium, stop taking the hits yourself. Blizzard's shop is automatically way worse than FFXIV's because of the WoW token which allows you to buy carry runs in game, aka Pay to Win.

Lets face it, as far as shops go, i'd rather go for the bigger one with more cosmetic only items in it than the one that allows me to pay to win the game.

[Caerrona]

This all reads like heavy-duty copium, though.

The two shops aren't actually all that different. If anything, XIV's is significantly larger. It's fine to prefer one game over the other, but lets keep ourselves grounded in reality.

Yeah it's pure delusion.

FFs shop is worse than anything put in wows shop and people lose their minds over 1 mount every 6 months when the FF store has 700383x that.

And just to be clear I WANT more things in the wow store, i want tmog and cool mounts. But man taking a look through the FF store would give the bald man a stroke.

[Soimu]

3. Yoshi P recently came out on the Shop and said that the things bought in the shop will be used to fund the game going forward. If you think subscriptions are enough to fund a MMORPG then you're deluding yourself. He also promised the items coming to FFXIV will be COSMETIC only with no stats and said "NO PAY TO WIN"

If they have the store then they should remove subscriptions. The wales buying microtransations are more then enough to sustain the game.

[drix93]

I started playing just because I watch him stream.

[Stabbyfists]

Yeah it's pure delusion.

FFs shop is worse than anything put in wows shop and people lose their minds over 1 mount every 6 months when the FF store has 700383x that.

And just to be clear I WANT more things in the wow store, i want tmog and cool mounts. But man taking a look through the FF store would give the bald man a stroke.

Wow's shop is infinitely worse because of the Token. When you can buy in game currency which can be exchanged for carries in PVP, Dungeons, Raids, etc then your game has become Pay to win. Yes the 1st Job increase will give you 500k, but when people sell carries in FFXIV its usually 5 - 6 million gil. You will not make that with your 1st job increase. FFXIV's shop is pure cosmetic items used to fund and increase the # of things you can acquire in game.

The level boosts in FFXIV also do not enable botting as dungeons are not able to grind gold, and they do not allow you to level boost Crafting and Gathering Jobs and those are the biggest money makers in FFXIV in game. They also only allow you to trade 1 million gil at a time so when someone buys gil, its usally easily detected, and banned.

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If they have the store then they should remove subscriptions. The wales buying microtransations are more then enough to sustain the game.

You do know the team on FFXIV work on other games as well right? Its being used to fund other projects like Nier series, the Final Fantasy Series, Kingdom Hearts, etc.

However I am done arguing on behalf of FFXIV. You people obviously want a hate boner for this development team and want to drink your copium and defend a corporation which has abused and condoned the harassment of women at the company.

[VinceVega]

Its not Copium, its the truth

Dungeons do not give you significant gil, Dungeon Drops do not give you significant gil. You earn gil from crafting and gathering materials and creating food + Questing. You cannot BUY a token you trade for in game currency. You also cannot buy level skips for the gathering and crafting professions aka the biggest money makers in the game.

Meanwhile, I am certain the botting situation on TBC Classic has gotten WAY better since now you don't have to level from 1 - 60 anymore...oh....wait...

Before you accuse someone of copium, stop taking the hits yourself. Blizzard's shop is automatically way worse than FFXIV's because of the WoW token which allows you to buy carry runs in game, aka Pay to Win.

Lets face it, as far as shops go, i'd rather go for the bigger one with more cosmetic only items in it than the one that allows me to pay to win the game.

Yeah no... gimme a shop with token any time before i get the FF14 shop.

Becuase i actually CARE about transmogs. Not really about some people who spend 1000 DOllars to get one run through mythic raids... and never being able to finish it himself. Ever.

FF14 is one of the worsed offender isn MMOs. HUGE MTX shop and then a sub on top.

ANd this post has nothing to do with the general quality of the game. Simply that FF14 players tend to look through rose tinded glasses when it comes to the mogry station.
Its always FF14 Mogry Station is perfect an FF14 needs it to live and wow is horrible everyone can buy the mythic runs... yeah no... not that black an white.
If you choose to beleive the whole "all of the money from MTX directly go into development" and not into some peoples bags... that is just naive.

MTX are not and will never be a good thing or even a neccesarry evil in games with a sub. Not in wow and neither in FF14

[hydrium]

Yeah it's pure delusion.

FFs shop is worse than anything put in wows shop and people lose their minds over 1 mount every 6 months when the FF store has 700383x that.

And just to be clear I WANT more things in the wow store, i want tmog and cool mounts. But man taking a look through the FF store would give the bald man a stroke.

Talk about pure copium.

Wow is 100% pay to win.

[CrossNgen]

For me the debate boils down to this: does the content distribution ingame and the quality of the game itself justify the existance of the shop? For FFXIV the answer is constantly yes, and for WoW it's no, at least it has been for the past 3 years.

I didn't care for the shop back in Legion and MoP because I've felt that the content being delivered was of good quality and distributed in a quick enough fashion. I was even fine with buying some mounts in those times because I felt like I was getting more than I payed for and I wanted to show the devs my appreciation to them by purchasing a mount from time to time. However with BFA and SL I felt a dip in quality and content distribution, while the store kept churning more products at a far higher pace.

[Soikona]

Well you're just one person. There's thousands watching them. Considering that literally last week on Zodiark EU I had 24 queue, and now it's 500, I can clearly guess why this is happening.

As I have said in a previous reply, I know for a fact I am not the only one.

[dlld]

Talk about pure copium.

Wow is 100% pay to win.

If I could swipe my credit card and blizzard in turn gave me curve and some pieces of heroic gear for 0 effort on my part, people would storm blizzard HQ and burn it down.

If I swipe my card to buy gold, pay some people for a boost with it, and get curve and some pieces of heroic gear for 0 effort on my part, the player-base sleeps.

Can't say blizzard aren't geniuses at fooling people to think there's no p2w tho.

[Itori]

If they have the store then they should remove subscriptions. The wales buying microtransations are more then enough to sustain the game.

How much do you think people spend on their store? The mogstation goes towards ffxivs funds and the most purchased item is the 10$ fantasia ( race change ) and most people only play one character so all of those cosmetic items are purchased once per account.

If you seriously believe the game can be sustained and every employees salary be paid with just that then you’re delusional.

WoW had far more players and their cash shop items and services were far more expensive 25$ for a race change mind you that faction change is seperate, and if you wanted to server change on top of that? 55$ total you pretty much bought a brand new game for a character thats most likely going to be a forgtten alt in 3 months.

[Martymark]

FF14 is one of the worsed offender isn MMOs. HUGE MTX shop and then a sub on top.

Yes, in FF14 you can buy a chicken suit that is purely cosmetic from the shop for $14. In FF14 and WOW you can boost a character to max level too.

[Soimu]

You do know the team on FFXIV work on other games as well right? Its being used to fund other projects like Nier series, the Final Fantasy Series, Kingdom Hearts, etc.

And why do i care about those games? If i support a game i expect my money to be invested in that game.

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How much do you think people spend on their store? The mogstation goes towards ffxivs funds and the most purchased item is the 10$ fantasia ( race change ) and most people only play one character so all of those cosmetic items are purchased once per account.

If you seriously believe the game can be sustained and every employees salary be paid with just that then you’re delusional.

WoW had far more players and their cash shop items and services were far more expensive 25$ for a race change mind you that faction change is seperate, and if you wanted to server change on top of that? 55$ total you pretty much bought a brand new game for a character thats most likely going to be a forgtten alt in 3 months.

I do not have any evidence and maybe i am wrong but considering how much money microtransactions bring to a game according to statistics and especially popular games and FF is a prety popular game atm i am guessing they do really well.
And you are the delusional one if you underestimate the amount of money players spend on useless cosmetic crap.

[Graeham]

I'm all for more competition where MMO's are concerned, but I don't necessarily want it to be in the form of WoW. The game is pretty old at this point and I'd vastly prefer FFXIV to be challenged by something much newer and fresher.

That aside, predatory monetary practices are present everywhere these days. FFXIV dresses them up nicely, though you still have to pay extra if you want a decent amount of inventory space. You also pay extra if you want to be able to make more than one character. There's plenty of merchandise shilled by the development team and marketing teams, complete with bonus codes for exclusive minions, mounts and emotes.

I don't mind it personally - I've bought a lot of it myself. Though I believe in such things being highlighted so others can make a fair judgement.

[Lane]

I'm all for more competition where MMO's are concerned, but I don't necessarily want it to be in the form of WoW. The game is pretty old at this point and I'd vastly prefer FFXIV to be challenged by something much newer and fresher.

I wish action combat MMOs were more of a thing. I loved combat in TERA and Wildstar. I've been disappointed that the newer MMOs coming to market look to still be doing the same old thing that we've had since the early 2000s. Frankly, I don't know why someone doesn't just buy Wildstar assets, it had everything it needed to be a great game that was just unfortunately poorly designed to be excruciatingly grindy and cater to elites at end game. At least TERA has the excuse that it's Korean and that's their audience. Wildstar did too much wrong to be broadly appealing to more casual western markets.

[Graeham]

I wish action combat MMOs were more of a thing. I loved combat in TERA and Wildstar. I've been disappointed that the newer MMOs coming to market look to still be doing the same old thing that we've had since the early 2000s. Frankly, I don't know why someone doesn't just buy Wildstar assets, it had everything it needed to be a great game that was just unfortunately poorly designed to be excruciatingly grindy and cater to elites at end game. At least TERA has the excuse that it's Korean and that's their audience. Wildstar did too much wrong to be broadly appealing to more casual western markets.

I adored Wildstar. I liked the art style, the potential for future content, the combat system and the game world. It had solid music, too.

It also had one of the best player housing systems ever. I miss my Cassian.

But yeah, it definitely needed more casual content. Raiders are vocal minority, ultimately. They should absolutely be catered to, but even many raiders want stuff to fall back on that isn't raiding.

[Swnem]

So, what's the over/under on how long it takes for asmongold giving up on FF14 and going back to WoW like with literally every other game he's quit WoW for?

Don't be ridiculous. He did not say he quit WoW (though i am sure he is considering with current events).
FF players are not possessive. They are ok with Asmon playing other games. He will return to FF as well cause it's good.

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Yes, in FF14 you can buy a chicken suit that is purely cosmetic from the shop for $14. In FF14 and WOW you can boost a character to max level too.

The issue is that 1, you can buy gold with the WoW token in WoW and 2, they give out store items to sub for 6 months.

Those are not things FF does cause they don't need to. FF offers plenty of original content in game, the shop is not in-game and it actually delivers a game people are not frustrated by.

So, are cash shops good? No. But it's delusional to think FF's is as toxic to the game as WoW's is. Oh and btw the FF sub is cheaper.
WoW players saying it's the same is pathetic. Reveals a complete ignorance of what the real problem is with the cash shop.

[Itori]

I like how people are talking trash about ffxivs cash shop, the only real controversial items are the job and story boosts but a lot of the cosmetic items on there were given to players who participated in past events by just doing the 5-15min long holiday content. They are just there now incase you may have missed them.

I honestly wished the boosts had an acct requirement so sprouts couldnt just boost to the end and say “lol endgame ez mode” while they die to everything and complain about everything thats different from their main mmo.