All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side
The premise is flawed.
The problem is that people run content only to get rewarded for it. I understand that the rewards are an important part of the equation, but if you only ever look at the rewards and just mechanically run dungeons for no other reason then rating and gear, then the kind of behaviour you mean happens, because sometimes people don't get that reward and thus (for them) the entire dungeon was pointless.
I don't understand this mindset and I probably never will. I run dungeons and raids with friends because I enjoy them, not because of that rating number and that possibility of gear. If you employ this mindset you will soon realize that you are much more relaxed about failing the key.
I know at least one person in my guild who only runs keys for their rating and thus is constantly on edge when in a key, jumping ahead of the tank and dying because they literally cannot take it if a key isn't timed and then proceeds to blame everyone in the group for that. The result is that very few people want that person in their group anymore.
So to answer your question: The player's mindsets are to blame for the toxic behaviour. The system itself works completely fine and if you relax about gear and rating there suddenly is very little reason to be toxic. On top of that, you actually will have smoother runs, because people are not so tense about that timer.
The rot starts from within if you get what I mean
^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.
Dude what? Everything you just wrote is wrong.
Blizzard "killed" gearscore because it lagged servers the fuck out the more people used it. Blizzard immediately started showing ilvl ingame. Also: before gearscore players were judged by "come IF bridge" and got inspected since the beginning of the world (of warcraft).
Mythic plus creates more toxicity than LFG ever does.
The issue in my eyes is M+ is a self managed player ran system which is why they stick so many self imposed hurdles on it to ensure it's a smooth run. These do and don't work always work. So you have a player base split on it saying hours of declines is shit but at the same time, "I really don't want to wipe and screw the key and waste my time so you all better not be shitters because I'm not".
LFG is basically a levelling system which is irrelevant to anything end game so it's very rare people will create a major drama out of it as ultimately people can be replaced with a click of a button with minimal fuss and you aren't losing a key.
The problem is the self managed system. We as the players create the problems in M+, we do not want to bring people to learn or gear up even in low mid m+ which breeds the current system and it's problems with shit like batshit r.io requirements, mental ilvl requirements exceeding gear drops and a general player base which is hostile to itself.
Players are not rejected just so those groups can sell a carry to those same players. They are rejected because the amount of groups are lower then the amount of applicants. You also just dismiss how people have always been rejected from groups even prior to gear score. Armory checking used to be a thing. Gear score, Radier.io and the other tools used over time has all come about because players wanted a way to find out who would be a weak link in the group.
The Token being part of the game has nothing to do with that. Rejection has always been a part of WoW. There have always been guilds that require X from new members.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
You could pay for carries in the past as well. Auction runs were a thing where everyone would bid on items and the gold earned would get split amongst people. WoW group play is not mostly for sale. Don't confuse seeing a lot of advertisments with it being the primary way to play. The community is crap partly because of attitudes like yours. You are not a prophet with some great revelation about the game.
Last edited by rhorle; 2021-07-22 at 02:14 PM.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
"So next time you or anyone wonders why the community is shit why the subs are dwindling why the game goes to hell, you can come back and read this post. "
Seems like you are trying to be prophetic there. I don't care if opinions that are different from mine are voiced. Just don't try to act with authority and that claim is the only correct one just because you are making it. You keep trying to pin all the problems on carries while ignoring how those things all existed prior to them gaining in popularity.
Carries may have magnified issues but they didn't create them. And most group play is not done through carries.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side
What does Blizzards decision to not allow random group for difficult content to do with the problem -since you randomly started mentioning it?
Normal/HC/Mythic has the same "issue" - that's isn't actually an issue at all.
Same thing with guilds.
I have to pick the guys I play with or apply to a certain guild I want to play with.
The game has been designed to focus on raiding/mythic/pvp, and in a way that encourages competitiveness and player segregation since being inefficient or unoptimized will get in the way of other player's ability to attain their goals. I can see how that can be considered toxic to people especially when there are multiple cases of poor behavior, but for many others, this is common sense since their satisfaction comes from working towards clearing those type of content.
I think this is a very simple concept of: if you don't like the group, then don't join them. WoW's end-game content is something I don't like to engage with because I prefer a game to be a RPG first, and optimization second. So I've come to terms that WoW isn't for me, and the only thing I enjoy is the story content that I can do for 1-2 months at the end of every expansion.
I'd suggest others who feel that way to make a similar conclusions because there's nothing to be gained from trying to force them to change their entire design philosophy just cause you had an amazing experience in WoTLK. If the entire m+, endgame raiding, or high-level PvP isn't your cup of tea, then leave instead of going through this entire drama of "who is to blame at the end of the day?" Cause, quite honestly, the only person you have to blame is yourself for subjecting yourself to something you don't enjoy.
Players: for being toxic manchildren pretty often
Blizzard: for not reacting to toxic behavior strongly enough.
If you get slapped with a monthly ban for using insults, and second time it happens for half a year, you learn (or you are removed from the fray at least). Blizzard seems too lenient, for whatever reason, on such people.
Blizzard for making a system where only one person has a stake in the risk. The key holder takes on all risk involved better systems would have every risk some thing in a run or would remove risk by having the difficulties be something that is just selected rather then it being a commodity.