Do Healers have to DPS now during down time in between heals?

[erifwodahs]

its a simple fact there is always some damage to heal, its doesnt matter if its a little or alot there is always something to heal, its up to the healer to make a choice if they want to do damage if they want to or not.



Its not false, there is always damage to heal as soon as you are engaged in combat, it doesnt matter how much damage is involved, simple fact is there is damage to heal and its constant.

and everyone has tools to mitigate that damage. Imagine casting a heal on someone just because they are missing 5% HP
Next argument you are going to give that "but if they took 95% damage they would die" which would just further show how trash you are and how you don't do any hard content.

[Raetary]

Its not false, there is always damage to heal as soon as you are engaged in combat, it doesnt matter how much damage is involved, simple fact is there is damage to heal and its constant.

Again.
You are absolutely wrong.

Hell, i don't have a guild and pug everything i do.
Even with the most dumbfuck rando groups i had the pleasure to run a dungeon or raid with, there are always times where i get to safely dash out dps.

Your statement is simply false.

[bloodwulf]

its a simple fact there is always some damage to heal, its doesnt matter if its a little or alot there is always something to heal, its up to the healer to make a choice if they want to do damage if they want to or not.



Its not false, there is always damage to heal as soon as you are engaged in combat, it doesnt matter how much damage is involved, simple fact is there is damage to heal and its constant.

While what you said is not technically wrong, the argument you are attempting to make is fundamentally wrong. There is damage pretty consistently in all content yes, but you should not be healing people who take 5-10% ticks or hits and not at risk of dying. Basically all tanks can manage that damage themselves, and most dps have means to handle it. Content is designed around healers dpsing now, that is just the plain and simple truth. M+s are designed for 3 and a half dps at least, with the expectation being the healer provide a meaningful sum (hence the domination of the Venthyr paladins). If a player is taking a life threatening amount outside of certain boss mechanics, someone in the group is not doing their job. Either the dps is messing up, or a tank is not watching placement etc.

TLDR - Damage happens consistently, but healing not is not needed for all damage.

[kenn9530]

and everyone has tools to mitigate that damage. Imagine casting a heal on someone just because they are missing 5% HP
Next argument you are going to give that "but if they took 95% damage they would die" which would just further show how trash you are and how you don't do any hard content.

I do the hardest content WoW has to offer so you have no idea about what i do, and you have no idea how i play, im a realm first player and i do what i want to do, if i want to do damage as a healer i do it, what im saying is its not required and its a choice, you are trying to call me a trash player when you have no idea about me at all, i never once said i dont bang out damage myself, i just said its a choice and its not required.

Again.
You are absolutely wrong.

Hell, i don't have a guild and pug everything i do.
Even with the most dumbfuck rando groups i had the pleasure to run a dungeon or raid with, there are always times where i get to safely dash out dps.

Your statement is simply false.

Im not wrong, are you trying to tell me that as soon as a tank pulls there is not constant damage incomming no matter much it is, the healer is not required in any situation to do damage, its a personal choice to do it or not.

[neescher]

Its not false, there is always damage to heal as soon as you are engaged in combat, it doesnt matter how much damage is involved, simple fact is there is damage to heal and its constant.

I can't even begin to state how wrong this is. Have you ever tried playing with a tank that actually uses his abilities? Again - I've done entire trash pulls in 18-20s where I didn't have to heal more than 3-4 riptides. You are simply 100% wrong.

[kenn9530]

I can't even begin to state how wrong this is. Have you ever tried playing with a tank that actually uses his abilities? Again - I've done entire trash pulls in 18-20s where I didn't have to heal more than 3-4 riptides. You are simply 100% wrong.

If a tank is getting hit they are taking damage so it is you who is wrong, there is still damage going out so there is still something to heal. This expansion tanks take a ton more damage than any other expansion in mythic plus.

[bloodwulf]

If a tank is getting hit they are taking damage so it is you who is wrong, there is still damage going out so there is still something to heal. This expansion tanks take a ton more damage than any other expansion in mythic plus.

Except in most M+, the tanks keep themselves alive. You are really showing ignorance about high end M+. You genuinely have to have all 5 people in the party outputting as much damage as you can to do well in the higher content. Sure throw the occasional heal their way if they need catch up, but between kiting and built in selfheal for most tank kits, you don't have to spend every GCD on a heal for them. Any time you are not pressing a heal, you should be pressing a damage ability.


Also can you stop with the "if they are getting hit, they are taking damage" routine. You don't need to heal every bit of damage that goes out. PERIOD. They have the tools to manage most of what they take.

[neescher]

If a tank is getting hit they are taking damage so it is you who is wrong, there is still damage going out so there is still something to heal. This expansion tanks take a ton more damage than any other expansion in mythic plus.

You know that tanks have tools to keep themselves alive right? You don't need to heal a tank when he drops from 100% to 95% hp.

Just to reiterate how wrong you are, I randomly looked at a log from the top 1 m+ player, the top dungeon run, the first few pulls. In this +23 DOS, in pull 1 (43 seconds) the healer used a total of 3 Word of Glory and 2 Holy Shock to heal. Next pull (1:29 minutes pull, 10 enemies) he used a total of 8 Word of Glory and 1 Holy Shock. It goes on like that. Pick any high key, any dungeon any pull. There's a good chance that the healer actually spent more time doing damage than healing.

Healing is only necessary to prevent people from dying, it's not your goal to keep everyone at 100% HP. In high keys (and any hard content) your goal is to heal as little as possible to keep everyone alive, and spend the rest of the time doing damage.

Sure, if you play +5 it's not "necessary" for your healer to dps, but if you want to time your high keys, it is.

Here's the log I looked at in case you don't believe me... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ull=3&source=3

[erifwodahs]

If a tank is getting hit they are taking damage so it is you who is wrong, there is still damage going out so there is still something to heal. This expansion tanks take a ton more damage than any other expansion in mythic plus.

Imagine trying to heal druid tank during incarnation. Might as well heal a battle pet.
dude just stop "I do realm first content" xD you have no clue what you are talking about and you are absolutely wrong. You don't do any remotely hard content, you don't know how tanks work, you don't know how classes work, you don't know how to manage mana and you don't know anything about m+ this season. I could ask my little brother who doesn't play wow and he would have better answers than you have because he could use logic, unlike you, constantly talking bullshit and bactracking. Show me your logs and achievements and as soon as we verify your identity - if you are a decent player, not even realm first, I will apologise in calling you trash. Otherwise, you are garbage healer who i would never take into any group.

[Raetary]

Im not wrong, are you trying to tell me that as soon as a tank pulls there is not constant damage incomming no matter much it is

Yes, that's exactly what i'm trying to tell you because that's exactly what happens in this very game.

Fucking hell, you clearly never healed anything, why are you trying to argue with people that did?

[kenn9530]

Except in most M+, the tanks keep themselves alive. You are really showing ignorance about high end M+. You genuinely have to have all 5 people in the party outputting as much damage as you can to do well in the higher content. Sure throw the occasional heal their way if they need catch up, but between kiting and built in selfheal for most tank kits, you don't have to spend every GCD on a heal for them. Any time you are not pressing a heal, you should be pressing a damage ability.


Also can you stop with the "if they are getting hit, they are taking damage" routine. You don't need to heal every bit of damage that goes out. PERIOD. They have the tools to manage most of what they take.

Healer damage is not needed and barely even makes a dent in the whole run, there is always something to heal, all im saying is its a choice if they want to do damage or just use utility and heal. A tank cant keep themselves alive on thier own, there are many occasions they need spam healed.

Yes, that's exactly what i'm trying to tell you because that's exactly what happens in this very game.

Fucking hell, you clearly never healed anything, why are you trying to argue with people that did?

You obviously dont understand sarcasm, ive healed the hardest content in the game so i know every single aspect. Just use some simple logic if a tank is taking damage there is something to heal so if they are tanking mobs they are taking damage, so what i said is 100% true there is always something to heal.

snip

To time a 15-20 key a healer still does not require to do any sort of damage, as i have said many times its a choice and if you play with ppl you know they dont care either way.

Imagine trying to heal druid tank during incarnation. Might as well heal a battle pet.
dude just stop "I do realm first content" xD you have no clue what you are talking about and you are absolutely wrong. You don't do any remotely hard content, you don't know how tanks work, you don't know how classes work, you don't know how to manage mana and you don't know anything about m+ this season. I could ask my little brother who doesn't play wow and he would have better answers than you have because he could use logic, unlike you, constantly talking bullshit and bactracking. Show me your logs and achievements and as soon as we verify your identity - if you are a decent player, not even realm first, I will apologise in calling you trash. Otherwise, you are garbage healer who i would never take into any group.

Dont need to prove anything to you since you lack even a basic understanding of the game as it stands, even saying you would remove a skilled healer if they did not do damage at all makes you have no credibility whatsoever, you would have to be completely stupid to remove your strongest healer in a team just because they didnt want to do damage, what about your dps only doing blue logs because that would be the actual issue.

[erifwodahs]

Healer damage is not needed and barely even makes a dent in the whole run, there is always something to heal, all im saying is its a choice if they want to do damage or just use utility and heal. A tank cant keep themselves alive on thier own, there are many occasions they need spam healed.

Oh God. Why do you talk about something you clearly don't do? Please, stop.

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You obviously dont understand sarcasm, ive healed the hardest content in the game so i know every single aspect.

No you don't. LFR healers know more about game than you do.

[neescher]

Healer damage is not needed and barely even makes a dent in the whole run, there is always something to heal, all im saying is its a choice if they want to do damage or just use utility and heal. A tank cant keep themselves alive on thier own, there are many occasions they need spam healed.




You obviously dont understand sarcasm, ive healed the hardest content in the game so i know every single aspect.

You are wrong and I just posted proof of that in my last reply.

/edit:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6mvyk1#fight=1

The healer did 12% of all damage in that run. The run was 40:02 minutes, ie. 58 seconds spare. Try to do the math, if those 12% damage were missing because the healer was healing the tank (who clearly didn't need healing) instead of doing damage.

100% proof that what you just said is plain wrong.

[bloodwulf]

Healer damage is not needed and barely even makes a dent in the whole run, there is always something to heal, all im saying is its a choice if they want to do damage or just use utility and heal. A tank cant keep themselves alive on thier own, there are many occasions they need spam healed.




You obviously dont understand sarcasm, ive healed the hardest content in the game so i know every single aspect.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You sunk yourself there. You have no idea what you are talking about. You do not do high content at all. Healers cast more damaging abilities in 20+ keys than healing abilities. It is verifiable through looking at nearly any parse. Healer damage is hugely relevant and is largely why MDI was dominated by 1-2 specs. It was why Echo killed Sylv so much earlier than others. Look at MDI and how damage focus the healer specs/covenants are? Also if your tank cant keep themselves up, they are a bad tank. A tank should at all times be the last person to die, they have so many outs in their kit, no matter the class.

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This is the total casts of Milkchen in the number one DOS parse. Look at the spread of the spells. Riptide with an 80% uptime, so he HOTs, then he blasts. He cast more DPS abilities than HPS abilities.

[Raetary]

You obviously dont understand sarcasm

LOL
Sure, out of a sudden - after several pages of arguing, its sarcasm.

Just admit it, you are wrong.

ive healed the hardest content in the game so i know every single aspect.

You literally deny the existence of downtime and don't understand the concept of tanks having mitigation spells, which prevent/absorb/reduce the dmg they receive.

Just to make it clear, munching on a healthstone that a warlock made for you is not the same as playing a healer.

[neescher]

the hardest content in the game

To time a 15-20 key a healer still does not require to do any sort of damage

"hardest content in the game"
"15-20 key"

Still no response to my proof though. Got it.

[kenn9530]

snip

sunk myself with what, all i have stated is healers are not required to do damage and can clear all releavant content without doing so, anything higher than a 15-20 key for chest and bonus portals is pointless and a complete waste of time as thats why no many actually push keys.

LOL
Sure, out of a sudden - after several pages of arguing, its sarcasm.

Just admit it, you are wrong.



You literally deny the existence of downtime and don't understand the concept of tanks having mitigation spells, which prevent/absorb/reduce the dmg they receive.

Just to make it clear, munching on a healthstone that a warlock made for you is not the same as playing a healer.

Im not wrong though, healers are not required to deal damage to clear content.

Oh God. Why do you talk about something you clearly don't do? Please, stop.

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No you don't. LFR healers know more about game than you do.

It already obvious you have never once done anything remotely challenging in the game, even though the content in WoW itself is not hard anyway, good luck in continuing to be an average WoW player.

[erifwodahs]

sunk myself with what, all i have stated is healers are not required to do damage and can clear all releavant content without doing so, anything higher than a 15-20 key for chest and bonus portals is pointless and a complete waste of time as thats why no many actually push keys.



Im not wrong though, healers are not required to deal damage to clear content.

realm first, hardest content xD omg.

[neescher]

sunk myself with what, all i have stated is healers are not required to do damage and can clear all releavant content without doing so, anything higher than a 15-20 key for chest and bonus portals is pointless and a complete waste of time as thats why no many actually push keys.

If you're progressing a 20 (ie. you're not getting carried by top players), you need healer damage. You keep moving the goal post, and people keep proving you wrong. You live in magical christmas land where every dps does 50k overall dps in the dungeon, of course you don't need healer damage for that. The rest of us live in the real world, are actually doing hard content without getting carried.

Try doing a +20 pug with ~2350 players (which should be around +20), and see if your group will need the extra 10% damage.

[Dimsum84]

Everything in this game is DPS first, their "role" comes after. Doesn't matter how little it looks, truth of the matter is if things die faster and sooner the less Tanking will be needed, less healing and less incoming damage. WoW is all about DPS, don't kid yourself.