OAN Loses 1st Amendment Lawsuit to MSNBC

[downnola]

Well, at least we both seem to agree that it shouldn't happen.

I hope you'll remain vigilant about it then to make sure it won't keep happening in the future. Or that you will call it out when it does happen.

No, I don't agree that it's an argument that people who oppose systemic racism (or any other topic that grinds your gears) regularly make.

If anyone needs to remain vigilant about their supposed principles, it's the guy who spent pages blaming workers for their shitty working conditions in a thread on Amazon warehouse workers trying to unionize.

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The "you don't have evidence"-argument in a discussion isn't the golden grail you guys think it is.

Neither is making sweeping claims about things and not supporting said claims with anything to back them up.

Bernie was at a Social Security event when he was interrupted by the BLM protesters, so you were talking out of your ass with the one example you tried to give for this divisive phenomena you're arguing exists. Why should anyone believe you're not talking out of your ass about the rest of it?

[starlord]

i'm always amazed at all the non-US citizens and expats who claim only they have their finger on the pulse of US society.
it's wildly different from city to state to region, much less "i saw something on twitter."

[Endus]

I disagree.

We've had this discussion before. Personally I find it a very convenient excuse to try and discredit people because they're not digging up some old articles.

We're "discrediting you" because you're making things up and have no evidence for the things you're saying. That makes you not credible, as a baseline. You have to give us some reason to give you credence; we're not going to just blindly accept whatever you say as fact, without evidence. Or anyone.

There is no "discrediting" because you had nothing to give any credit to. You started at 0 credit and haven't shifted the dial. And now you're complaining that you think it's unfair that you be asked to justify your claims.

Furthermore, perhaps media being slanted in a certain direction might make it much harder to find articles on the matter.

1> That's a completely baseless conspiracy theory, and again, you have nothing to back it up.

2> If you can't find the evidence to support your position, it's more like that you're just wrong than that there's some grand media conspiracy hiding the truth from everyone.

Even when articles are presented it then becomes a matter of: "But that news source is racists!" - because frankly, the other media doesn't bother reporting or writing honest articles on it for their own reasons. It's very convenient to live in a bubble.

Source bias and reliability kind of matters. Again, you're just implicitly admitting your only possible sources would be egregious and known for disinformation.

The "you don't have evidence"-argument in a discussion isn't the golden grail you guys think it is.

It isn't a "golden grail", it's a basic entry expectation.

That you find it insurmountable just tells us that not only are you wrong, but you know you're wrong.

Here, I'll provide you a perfect counter-point to the argument you've provided; there's actually a cyber-dragon that lives on top of your home, and its hoard is data, not gold. That's why you can't find the facts; because it hoards them all in its datacave, jealously guarding the Truths therein. Go slay the cyberdragon and bring us its head!

If you think I'm being unreasonable, you've figured out why we think you are being unreasonable.

[Shalcker]

I mean, black people are owed reparation, aren't they? The country and its white populace kidnapped their ancestors and then forced them to labour against their will without compensation and then deliberately legally and economically discriminated against them.

Just checking - in your opinion, are Irish owed reparations for Great Famine too? Happened in same period; they got plenty of discrimination as well.

Do you really think more positive discrimination is real solution to past negative discrimination? Statistics doesn't seem to show it to work; things like university quotas turn into negative discrimination of asians.

And one-time "reperation payment" - even if you would successfully push it through - would mean right-wingers saying "there, they got their money, now use it to fix themselves! Not our problem anymore."

[Endus]

Absolute bullshit.

That's what it looks like.

There's an easy way to prove that assumption wrong, though . . .

[Edge-]

You -are- being dick-ish, because the only reason you even make that demand, which is a bit weird already in a normal discussion, is because you are quite aware of how biased the media is overall.

No, I'm simply asking for evidence of your claim. If that makes me a "dick", then any serious discussion of a topic makes one a "dick" and there's no serious discussion to be had.

And even when articles are provided, it then becomes a game of trying to discredit the source, knowing full well that your own favored media would never bother writing articles on such cases - because it doesn't fit their agenda.

If your source is Infowars...yeah, we're gonna mock it for being garbage.

You're not doing what Rachel Maddow did, you're doing something closer to what OAN/Newsmax did with their election fraud conspiracies. Making baseless claims without evidence that aren't legally defensible (not that they need to be in this context).

[Diaphin]

Just checking - in your opinion, are Irish owed reparations for Great Famine too? Happened in same period; they got plenty of discrimination as well.

Do you really think more positive discrimination is real solution to past negative discrimination? Statistics doesn't seem to show it to work; things like university quotas turn into negative discrimination of asians.

And one-time "reperation payment" - even if you would successfully push it through - would mean right-wingers saying "there, they got their money, now use it to fix themselves! Not our problem anymore."

Aren't you describing yourself as a left winger? You did in the Taliban thread where I think you defended a bunch of armed and violent incels aka THe Taliban and now you are spewing far-right straw men?

And on principle, yeah, I think both the Scotts and the Irish should be entitled to reparations from England.

[Endus]

Oh, hey.

I just thought of something, someone already linked an article of it happening on a previous page:

That does not in any way support your initial claim that anyone thinks pushing for worker's rights is racist.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Absolute bullshit.

Weren't you the dude I had to explain the basic concept of social conservatism making your then desired coalition between the left and the white working class problematic at best?

And now you're in this thread presenting yourself as some kind of expert in American politics? That shit right there is absolutely hilarious.

[Endus]

Just pay attention to it the next time the election campaigns begin again.

To what?

You can't even cite a single example. The one example you DID cite fails to actually support your claim.

You've given me nothing to pay attention to. Just a fiction you made up.

[Ivanstone]

Just checking - in your opinion, are Irish owed reparations for Great Famine too? Happened in same period; they got plenty of discrimination as well.

Do you really think more positive discrimination is real solution to past negative discrimination? Statistics doesn't seem to show it to work; things like university quotas turn into negative discrimination of asians.

And one-time "reperation payment" - even if you would successfully push it through - would mean right-wingers saying "there, they got their money, now use it to fix themselves! Not our problem anymore."

The British probably don’t owe the Irish anything for the Great Famine. They probably do owe them something for all the shitty stuff they did afterwards.

America did a shit job of making things better for Black people after the civil war. Black America probably doesn’t need Slavery Reparations. They absolutely do need reparations for the 156 years of Jim Crow laws.

Sure economic equality is nice thing to do going forward but it doesn’t really help people suffering from previous crimes.

[GreenJesus]

I mean, black people are owed reparation, aren't they? The country and its white populace kidnapped their ancestors and then forced them to labour against their will without compensation and then deliberately legally and economically discriminated against them.

That was 160 years ago dude. Who gets paid? Everyone with a black skin tone? Does a black person that moved to America 10 years ago get reparations? Who pays who and where does that money come from? My ancestors weren't even in America when slavery was a thing. Why should I be punished and taxed? At some point you have to stop blaming the past or "white privilege", and just take control of your own life. Black people will never move on if they don't value education, and just run to big daddy government for social security and foodstamp payouts. Asians have managed to surpass whites in nearly all metrics. Maybe black people should take a page out of their book on values and culture.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

You tell me,

Just going by your dumbshit claims here, sport.

iirc you were one of the few implying that worker rights activism was racist.

I'd love to see proof of this, liar.

Or that both (social rights and worker rights) can't be done at the same time.

And I'd love to see proof of this too.

[downnola]

Just pay attention to it the next time the election campaigns begin again.

If it happens at all, it'll be because the person claiming to be the champion of workers and unions is wishy-washy about workers rights if the worker was born on the wrong side of the border, or are known to ramble about "welfare queens" taking advantage of the system.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

As you requested:

So, a criticism of why the labor movement fell flat on its face and lost influence in the Democratic Party is now a statement that labor rights are racist or can't be done alongside civil rights?

[Diaphin]

That was 160 years ago dude. Who gets paid? Everyone with a black skin tone? Does a black person that moved to America 10 years ago get reparations? Who pays who and where does that money come from? My ancestors weren't even in America when slavery was a thing. Why should I be punished and taxed? At some point you have to stop blaming the past or "white privilege", and just take control of your own life. Black people will never move on if they don't value education, and just run to big daddy government for social security and foodstamp payouts. Asians have managed to surpass whites in nearly all metrics. Maybe black people should take a page out of their book on values and culture.

First: Academia disagrees with you, so don't argue with me, write a peer-reviewed paper where you debunk white privilege. If you already have written one, link pls. Otherwise, facts dont care about your feelings, especially if you can't even debunk these kinds of concepts, you just claim they don't exist. I would counter something on the line of cancel culture not existing, but then again, it actually doesn't exist, its just capitalism+changes in mainstream social values operating like they always did.

And ideally everyone who verifiably has ancestors being enslaved or who suffered economic damage due US policy discriminating on the basis of race should be entitled. Naturally, it would be paid off by the state, though I think due to the civil war it would be justifiable that southern states should pay a higher percentage of a reparations fund than northern states, taking into accounts damages northern citizens suffered during the rebellious uprising of slave holders and their supporters.

[Specialka]

Aren't you describing yourself as a left winger? You did in the Taliban thread where I think you defended a bunch of armed and violent incels aka THe Taliban and now you are spewing far-right straw men?

And on principle, yeah, I think both the Scotts and the Irish should be entitled to reparations from England.

How far could we go back to ask for reparations ?

[Milchshake]

i'm always amazed at all the non-US citizens and expats who claim only they have their finger on the pulse of US society.
it's wildly different from city to state to region, much less "i saw something on twitter."

Their lies are comically bad. Funny thing is, after they got called on it. Come the desperate avatar and username changes.

They dont realize people have receipts.

Good times comrades!

[downnola]

That was 160 years ago dude. Who gets paid? Everyone with a black skin tone? Does a black person that moved to America 10 years ago get reparations? Who pays who and where does that money come from? My ancestors weren't even in America when slavery was a thing. Why should I be punished and taxed? At some point you have to stop blaming the past or "white privilege", and just take control of your own life. Black people will never move on if they don't value education, and just run to big daddy government for social security and foodstamp payouts. Asians have managed to surpass whites in nearly all metrics. Maybe black people should take a page out of their book on values and culture.

We do have records of who owned slaves and who descended from those slaves. It doesn't seem that difficult to start from there and work your way forward.

[Edge-]

Is this a serious consideration now? I'm speechless that this is even being considered as a solution. Reminds me of how WW2 started.

By a bunch of Nazi's invading adjacent countries?