Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Zyky]

Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

Because this is the same shit that's been happening for the last 5 years with the game. They intentionally design garbage systems and then feign "we're listening guys see" and make these changes that were said by the entire playerbase since the respective Alpha. That's why there's a negative response, because they refuse to acknowledge that the underlying problems are the garbage systems they design and refuse to take feedback on.

[Empower]

If you actually think that Blizzard is intentionally making the game worse for specifically the 1% of the highest 1% of the playerbase then there isn't any point in continuing this discussion. That's one of the most insane things I've ever seen anybody ever suggest.

Are you simply trying to bait me into being overly dismissive and insulting to you for this line of conversation to end or are you actually getting that out of what is spelled out to you.

[Relapses]

Are you simply trying to bait me into being overly dismissive and insulting to you for this line of conversation to end or are you actually getting that out of what is spelled out to you.

Blizzard doesn't create grinds like that to shackle the 1%. They make systems like that to engage the 99%. The 1% gets disproportionately impacted because they feel compelled to do it but if you're competing at that level you should be used to that by now. We already know what happens when Blizzard designs the game for specifically the 1%. We had an entire expansion of it. Do you remember? It was called Warlord of Draenor. Shame that expansion is so well remembered, eh?

[Empower]

Blizzard doesn't create grinds like that to shackle the 1%. They make systems like that to engage the 99%. The 1% gets disproportionately impacted because they feel compelled to do it but if you're competing at that level you should be used to that by now. We already know what happens when Blizzard designs the game for specifically the 1%. We had an entire expansion of it. Do you remember? It was called Warlord of Draenor. Shame that expansion is so well remembered, eh?

Well not all of us can excel at critical thought I suppose...

Let's pick this apart. You think the main rewards being conduits and sockets is used to entice the majority of the playerbase?

I doubt the majority of the player base actually uses sockets beyond what ones a guide told them to use months ago. If that is how blizzard incentives the average player they are utterly clueless as to what drives them and that is deeply concerning it shows a stupidity even I assume they lack.

As for the boogie man of wod... an entire expansion dedicated to leveling, treasures, findable heroic raid gear from dailies, am attempt at player housing, garrison invasions, rares that drop mounts in every zone, and more a casual player paradise...

Yet all of was undermined by a simple raid drop coming from garrisons. I always find it amusing you know? The game desperately tries to cater to players like you but it always devolves into just shoving rewards down your throat and it's never enough because of those evil raiders...

All we want is a raid tier. There is no other catering nor is any succor asked for. Yet somehow this playerbase who wishes for nothing more then to raid log and never interact with the rest of the community also secretly wants derpy mindless grind content in the game that apparently only effects them....why again?

[rrayy]

You can walk into Heroic Dungeons and walk away with 197, you can walk into Mythic 0 dungeons and walk away with 210. Both of which require less time and effort to do so. Move on into even only M+ 2, 3 or 4, and you walk away with 210-216 iLvL loot + a guaranteed 226 at reset. Hell battlegrounds are faster. If you are limiting your power progression to the Campaign or random Korthia the problem is not the system it is you.

I never said anything abut being limited to that. If you use any pieces from that upgradeable gear, those dailies are connected to player power. It can be handy as that you can get a full set in a short time and can fill slots that you are unlucky in the other gearing methods with.

[Relapses]

Well not all of us can excel at critical thought I suppose...

Let's pick this apart. You think the main rewards being conduits and sockets is used to entice the majority of the playerbase?

I doubt the majority of the player base actually uses sockets beyond what ones a guide told them to use months ago. If that is how blizzard incentives the average player they are utterly clueless as to what drives them and that is deeply concerning it shows a stupidity even I assume they lack.

As for the boogie man of wod... an entire expansion dedicated to leveling, treasures, findable heroic raid gear from dailies, am attempt at player housing, garrison invasions, rares that drop mounts in every zone, and more a casual player paradise...

Yet all of was undermined by a simple raid drop coming from garrisons. I always find it amusing you know? The game desperately tries to cater to players like you but it always devolves into just shoving rewards down your throat and it's never enough because of those evil raiders...

All we want is a raid tier. There is no other catering nor is any succor asked for. Yet somehow this playerbase who wishes for nothing more then to raid log and never interact with the rest of the community also secretly wants derpy mindless grind content in the game that apparently only effects them....why again?

Yeah, I think pointless infinitely repeatable content like dailies and the Korthia grind are designed to keep casual players happy. You literally do world content and can get gear that's better than anything that drops out of everything up to Normal mode SoD. I hate that they keep designing shit like this but it has to be working because they did it first with The Maw and Korthia is just an extrapolation of that same dogshit system. I'm really not trying to make this us "raiders versus plebs" dick measuring contest though, I'm simply explaining the reasons Blizzard keeps putting these kinds of systems in the game. I promise you, it isn't because they hate raiders no matter how browbeaten you might feel.

[Accendor]

then if u did support it, there was no evidence of it
i was following Legion beta closely, heck i loved legion so much that i subbed to wow as soon i saw its trailer, and it was still more than 6 months to legion -.- (yes i idiotically subbed to WoD for 6 months in my enthusiasm)
so if u did like AP grind and saw no wrong in it, u either only one who said so, or u didn't even bother to post about it, because all beta reviews were AP grind isn't good, how bad it was is varying, but no one claimed it was good, and blizz only def was wait for class research and it will get better (and it didn't)

- - - Updated - - -


yes i know but i talk why (deserved) negative feedback about 9.1.5 changes which are actually cool

Feel free to check my post history from that time, I was defending that system 24/7 at that time.

[Soon-TM]

HAHAHAHA, please tell me you actually belive that. Fans constantly spam nonesense and bullshit. They know JACKSHIT.

Maybe that's why 9.1.5 is bringing forth changes that were requested back in @$&%ing beta. Sure, 15+ years players don't know jackshit

But since Blizzard does implement those changes (even if belatedly and begrudgingly), I have solid reasons to believe it in spite of the Blizzard drones' outrage

[Schizoide]

You very much can. Unless someone of the higher ups requests them and goes around telling everyone, you won't get them. Stuff like sales metrics are usually not at all publically available even internally - unless you actually work with them and then you are usually NDA'ed up to your neck. In my company in a completely different industry getting solid numbers is already quite hard and we have ALOT less red-tape for our machine sales since we are a company and not a corporation. Most likely you get at best some internal rumors because someone let slip they aren't looking too good or vague stuff like that, but you ordinarily don't see people sharing exact knowledge, even if it was just the first 2-3 significant figures.

No, they have an army of people maintaining the infrastructure, the databases, etc. While that doesn't necessarily give an exact number (unless the DBA runs some SQL anyway) you can get a pretty good count on concurrency.

It's possible that they have a strong culture of secrecy on these things, but once multiple people know a secret, it isn't one.

[Yarathir]

Maybe that's why 9.1.5 is bringing forth changes that were requested back in @$&%ing beta. Sure, 15+ years players don't know jackshit

But since Blizzard does implement those changes (even if belatedly and begrudgingly), I have solid reasons to believe it in spite of the Blizzard drones' outrage

No, you don't get it. Blizzard devs (especially Ion) just had a sudden and completely coincidental change of heart that definitely had nothing to do with the company being on fire and the game bleeding subs.

[Empower]

Yeah, I think pointless infinitely repeatable content like dailies and the Korthia grind are designed to keep casual players happy. You literally do world content and can get gear that's better than anything that drops out of everything up to Normal mode SoD. I hate that they keep designing shit like this but it has to be working because they did it first with The Maw and Korthia is just an extrapolation of that same dogshit system. I'm really not trying to make this us "raiders versus plebs" dick measuring contest though, I'm simply explaining the reasons Blizzard keeps putting these kinds of systems in the game. I promise you, it isn't because they hate raiders no matter how browbeaten you might feel.

It isn't hate its simple desperation to get raiders into more content. It works to an extent... I did dailies for roughly six weeks give or take till I finished the conduit grind.

The world of world of warcraft has no interest to me or more of my ilk. We will remain as everything around us dies till the last raid ends and we simply leave to a new game.

I would advise you to not apologize or excuse blizzards failures. You see the issues why offer reprieve for them?

Unless you remain critical all you will get are new systems and the maw. I don't understand what keeps non raiders in wow. Final fantasy and even guild wars seem to offer more. We are at the point nothing but an absolute breaking will change course.

Though you can continue at the end of the day I will simply weigh the amount of time blizzard wants me to waste vs how much I want to raid. If endwalker offers harder raids though... well then the end of wow has come for me.

[Zyky]

Blizzard doesn't create grinds like that to shackle the 1%. They make systems like that to engage the 99%. The 1% gets disproportionately impacted because they feel compelled to do it but if you're competing at that level you should be used to that by now. We already know what happens when Blizzard designs the game for specifically the 1%. We had an entire expansion of it. Do you remember? It was called Warlord of Draenor. Shame that expansion is so well remembered, eh?

And yet the 99% are the players quitting in droves lol. They systems are garbage, the all the trash systems had very detailed feedback in Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands ALPHAS, and Blizzard IGNORED all the feedback. They create the grinds to SHACKLE the PLAYERBASE. It has nothing to do with the 99% or the 1%.

[Relapses]

And yet the 99% are the players quitting in droves lol. They systems are garbage, the all the trash systems had very detailed feedback in Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands ALPHAS, and Blizzard IGNORED all the feedback. They create the grinds to SHACKLE the PLAYERBASE. It has nothing to do with the 99% or the 1%.

I mean, I pretty much said exactly that in my next post. I don't like the systems personally. But I also don't think they're "shackling the playerbase" or "ignoring feedback" by continuing to develop them. Clearly somebody somewhere likes this shit otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing it. I'd wager there isn't a whole lot of crossover between people who post on fan forums and people who actually enjoy the video game though.

[KaPe]

And yet the 99% are the players quitting in droves lol. They systems are garbage, the all the trash systems had very detailed feedback in Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands ALPHAS, and Blizzard IGNORED all the feedback. They create the grinds to SHACKLE the PLAYERBASE. It has nothing to do with the 99% or the 1%.

This still doesn't prove him wrong. Bad systems are bad beucase they were poorly designed and paced, not because they "cater to the 1%". This is especially true for Korthia, since "1%" has zero use from gear that drops there (expect for one trinket that got nerfed). Both the drops and the upgrade system are designed specifically for more casual audience, who have very few sources of high quality gear.

That's the problem with this argument. I agree that Korthia is bullshit and I'm happy I'm finally done with the Archivist rep grind. But when someone claims it was supposedly designed for people like me (or even more hardcore ones), I know they are wrong. This is even more true with Covenants - where it was claimed that "only 1% will choose them based on power" - and going by various statistics, it's completely wrong... plus we had those same people warn about it back in Beta.

People are placing the blame in the wrong place. Mythic raiders aren't out to destroy casual content (except for some lunatics that claim lfg/lfr ruined the game). It's Blizzard fucking up again and again. But I guess it's easy to point fingers at those who play the game a lot - and assume they must love every second of it. And it's been hapenning since Vanilla - even though every expansion was getting more and more casual, allowing people to have rewarding content other than raiding.

If anything, Blizzard is catering to their own devs, having weird vision of a game that they refuse to compromise on. They only do so after several patches, when they believe that enough people have "enjoyed" their creation. Hell, it's pretty much directly stated in the most recent blue post. They are making changes, but still think their idea was brilliant and millions of people loved it.

[Zyky]

This is especially true for Korthia, since "1%" has zero use from gear that drops there (expect for one trinket that got nerfed).

So I'm going to stop reading here since you clearly are clueless. Korthia is required for the 1%, you need to participate in Korthia in order to upgrade conduits AND to obtain sockets in the gear.

[Sin of Pride]

So I'm going to stop reading here since you clearly are clueless. Korthia is required for the 1%, you need to participate in Korthia in order to upgrade conduits AND to obtain sockets in the gear.

It is difficult for them to reconcile... to them those are not even rewards never mind the only reward of value. They see what your saying but the concept is so alien they kind of blot it out.

[KaPe]

So I'm going to stop reading here since you clearly are clueless. Korthia is required for the 1%, you need to participate in Korthia in order to upgrade conduits AND to obtain sockets in the gear.

Wow, no shit. I guess that's the reason I did the Archivist grind. And how exactly that this negate the fact that there's entire item upgrade system that's aimed at the casual audience? These people don't give a damn about miniscule upgrades from conduits and have something designed specifically for them. If anything, 233ilvl gear is a much bigger upgrade for such players than 2 extra sockets will be for someone like me.

The place sucks, but it has nothing to do with catering to 1%, but badly designed reward structure, boring, empty environments and tying a grind to random daily activies with no real rewards before the final ranks. And none of that is something that would appeal to mythic raiders specifically.

It is difficult for them to reconcile... to them those are not even rewards never mind the only reward of value. They see what your saying but the concept is so alien they kind of blot it out.

So... what kind of point are you making? Can you say that Korthia was designed solely to cater to the 1%? With all their collectibles, pets, mounts and item rewards being completely useless to everyone else? Or is it the exact opposite, with the "hardcores" only really caring about small part of this content?

[Zyky]

miniscule upgrades

"miniscule" lmfao. This tells me you're such a troll at this point lmao.

[KaPe]

"miniscule" lmfao. This tells me you're such a troll at this point lmao.

You seriously think that people outside of 1% care about conduit ilvls and are grinding the rep solely for that? Or that these upgrades are worth more for them than gear they can't gear otherwise? Or did reading comprehension fail you yet again, in a blatant rush to "prove" me wrong?

Hell, even for mythic raiders, most conduits are borderline useless (beyond the base upgrade) and you can barely tell the difference between 226 and 252. If that's "trolling" to you, then you must have some really weird sims.

[Zyky]

You seriously think that people outside of 1% care about conduit ilvls and are grinding the rep solely for that?

They do care, regardless of what your mind thinks, the facts are you are expected to do this in any Cutting Edge guild and Cutting Edge goes far beyond the "1%"