Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

Well, why don't you ask yourself why blizzard implements those changes only after all those players left and the massive shtstorm? Wanna know why? Because they do not care about your experience and always just test what they can get away with. How often did they implement a system, got much high quality feedback on how the system sucks and then sold us some little changes as a feature a few patch later? Why are you still buying this nonsense?
Over almost a year they did not give a sht. They could have done so much while we had the months of content drought, yet they chose to do nothing. They don't care. Some new faces won't change what is fundamentally wrong with blizz...you're naive af imho.

[mst3kfan]

Capping conduits only comes from three sources. 1 a week from upgrades in choreghast 5 stars. Hitting glad in pvp rankings, and doing korthia.

It was clearly designed to get raiders doing it.

The end game content of WoW is Raiding, Mythic+, and Arenas/RBGs. If you expect to get the highest level gear from only mindlessly grinding dailies you are woefully wrong. Further, if Korthia, and other such content, is your chosen route to gear yourself that is your mistake. It is by war the least efficient, and most time consuming way to do so. Instead, maybe get better at the game so you can actually be competitive enough to be taken to higher level content instead of begging for hand outs.

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I agree with this. Further this is more of a catch up mechanic than anything for new players and alts which happens literally EVERY SINGLE CONTENT DROP EVER. Just like you said, there is still a significant gap between the demographic of players that are doing the dailies. Further the 1% might be farming them for completion or that very small upgrade you gain from the sockets just like you said but the majority of mythic raiding content cleared didn't have that and it was still cleared as is. Even at the 1% level, it isn't mandatory and in most cases probably isn't even needed unless the guild is going to require it (many if not most will).

And I will also reiterate something I mentioned in another post, the majority of people so heavily invested in the conversation of casuals vs. the 1% are all casuals and either argue on the premise they aren't casual intentionally misleading/projecting or honestly believe they aren't a casual and are a part of that 1%. Most of the 1% are most likely pushing glad in arena or farming mythic raids and aren't on here arguing.

Exactly. These idiots just need to come to terms they are not in the top 1% of the player base. Statistically speaking, the majority of the player base fall around 50-55%. So not even in the top 45% of the player base. These people want a handout instead of actually earning the rewards.

[Empower]

The end game content of WoW is Raiding, Mythic+, and Arenas/RBGs. If you expect to get the highest level gear from only mindlessly grinding dailies you are woefully wrong. Further, if Korthia, and other such content, is your chosen route to gear yourself that is your mistake. It is by war the least efficient, and most time consuming way to do so. Instead, maybe get better at the game so you can actually be competitive enough to be taken to higher level content instead of begging for hand outs.

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Exactly. These idiots just need to come to terms they are not in the top 1% of the player base. Statistically speaking, the majority of the player base fall around 50-55%. So not even in the top 45% of the player base. These people want a handout instead of actually earning the rewards.

I don't think you understand what is being discussed if your talking about gear to be frank.

[Relapses]

Except these issues were all issues brought up by big content creators ON BETA and the players talked about it as well. I realize when you spend 24/7 on WoW and forums you don't have much time for twitch or youtube, but there were definitely conversations and feedback about nearly everything in their ripcord patch.

The feedback obviously existed. I'm not denying that. It doesn't take a triple PhD in rocket surgery to be able to predict exactly how Covenants turned out. What I don't like is now that Blizzard is changing directions, people are playing revisionist history experts and pretending like Blizzard intentionally designed the game against the best interests of their playerbase. Fact is, the expansion was extremely well received at launch. It wasn't until 9.0 lasted way too long that people started to complain loudly about how bad things had become. Then the lawsuit happened and it amped the whining up to 11. (Honestly, had the lawsuit not happened I'm not even sure half the stuff they're changing would have happened. But that's a pretty cynical take and I try to avoid that line of thinking.) Blizzard did not intentionally create Covenants the way they did because they hate their players. They designed it the way they did because they thought that it'd be good for the game. As I've said multiple times, they took a gamble and lost. The thing that irks me is that reminding people that Covenants were a controversial topic from the beginning and framing your arguments that Blizzard "ignored feedback," is rehashing something we've all seen a million times before.

[Celestraza]

Tbh I see a lot of discussions about gear, ilvl and korthia design.

But isn't the main issue here all the unnecessary and complex systems they are stacking which nobody (neither casuals or mythic raiders) likes and imho have a negative impact on gameplay.

I personally hate the whole combination of covenant abilities (should be utility only), soulbinds, conduits, legendaries and domination shards. It's 5 systems that require reading up on and tbh each poorly interact and poorly fit with my class and rotations.

Honestly meaningfull set powers (but not being dependant on that single item drop) that affect gameplay alone as a replacement for these 5 systems would be an improvement at this point.

[Osmeric]

But isn't the main issue here all the unnecessary and complex systems they are stacking which nobody (neither casuals or mythic raiders) likes and imho have a negative impact on gameplay.

The big issue is that the dev team seems to have lost the ability to understand and predict what their customers will actually like.

Unless this gets fixed, there is no hope.

[Empower]

The big issue is that the dev team seems to have lost the ability to understand and predict what their customers will actually like.

Unless this gets fixed, there is no hope.

I'm not convinced they ever really understood... beyond dungeons and raids blizzards success stories are rare. Taking out mage tower and mythic plus when was their last successful new form of content..?

Arena in tbc? Blizzard has always failed at being a creative company. Even in their prime they just refined popular genres they never invented or created them.

[Relapses]

The big issue is that the dev team seems to have lost the ability to understand and predict what their customers will actually like.

Unless this gets fixed, there is no hope.

This is such a farcical statement. "Blizzard failed to develop a game that 100% of its players liked therefore they can never make a good game again." Why are we pretending that such a feat is even remotely within the realm of possibility?

[Osmeric]

This is such a farcical statement. "Blizzard failed to develop a game that 100% of its players liked therefore they can never make a good game again." Why are we pretending that such a feat is even remotely within the realm of possibility?

I see. As long as one person, somewhere, finds something the devs did to be fun, the devs are off the hook. My statement can only be understood in a completely absolutist sense, it seems. It all becomes so clear now that you have explained my thinking to me.

[Relapses]

I see. As long as one person, somewhere, finds something the devs did to be fun, the devs are off the hook. My statement can only be understood in a completely absolutist sense, it seems. It all becomes so clear now that you have explained my thinking to me.

You're the one who made a generalized statement about Blizzard "not understanding its customers." Why you'd try to flip that and say that I'm forcing you to be absolutist when I'm simply responding to words that you wrote is frankly baffling.

[InflaterMouse]

I don't think you understand what is being discussed if your talking about gear to be frank.

He does, and all these game design discussions end up going down the welfare gear rabbit hole regarding catch up gear mechanics. Normally before game design discussions get off the first page it will end up by the bottom of the page having people complaining about casuals getting free gear and stuff is too easy to do being the issues with the games.

The only problem with this is that people are worried about what other people are doing vs. what they are doing. It doesn't impact anyone else's game 99% of the time. There are a lot of real issues in wow, catch up mechanics and welfare gear isn't one of them. But the majority of people that bitch, cry and moan about the welfare gear and easy game preach like they are cutting edge raiders thus making their opinions about causals more important when in reality and in good probability they're a causal themselves and either are going to be intentionally misleading about their status, projecting their status or honestly don't realize they're a casual.

I mean we are farming heroic in 2 raids in our guild and have 3 bosses down as of this evening in mythic and outside of a couple of our top pvp'ers we are ALL CASUALS and don't give a shit what other people are doing in their games, how much welfare gear they're getting or how many feelings they're hurting.

[Cwimge]

The big issue is that the dev team seems to have lost the ability to understand and predict what their customers will actually like.

Unless this gets fixed, there is no hope.

They know. They also know players are sunk-cost idiots who'll always come back. So they do what they like instead of what players want, because there's no incentive to aim for retention when force of habit does that work for them

[Kaver]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

Try to look at it this way:

1) 9.1.5 is really just Blizzard fixing issues they created themselves. We are basically paying them 15$ a month to clean up their own mess instead of getting new fun content.

2) If a thief stole your laptop and then gave it back to you after a year, you would still be mad at the thief right? I mean, you’d probably be happy to get your laptop back, but you’d probably also still be mad at the thief for stealing it in the first place. Especially if you pay the thief 15$ a month to NOT steal your laptop.

3) Blizzard are still trying to defend the AOE cap and Covenant restriction. Now I’m not sure if it’s just to make one butt hurt developer happy or if they actually mean it. So I’m not sure how much they’ve actually learned this time.

[Syleion]

Beating a dead horse here but I think after multiple expansions of the community telling Blizzard about issues and their refusal to fix them PRIOR to launch has burned too many players.

[Caerrona]

It's 2021 and every karen thinks their opinion is fact and the game should be made to accommodate 100% of what they want.

When it inevitably isn't because blizzard makes a game for millions not just one raging moron they well... rage.

[Kaver]

It's 2021 and every karen thinks their opinion is fact and the game should be made to accommodate 100% of what they want.

When it inevitably isn't because blizzard makes a game for millions not just one raging moron they well... rage.

I’m pretty sure you’re not updated on the current topic because although what you say is often true it’s definitely not the determining factor in the case of the 9.1.5 changes. The support towards these changes have been overwhelming since the start of the expansion.

[Caerrona]

I’m pretty sure you’re not updated on the current topic because although what you say is often true it’s definitely not the determining factor in the case of the 9.1.5 changes. The support towards these changes have been overwhelming since the start of the expansion.

"Karens will be karens" is the reason people are upset.

The people raging and whining every... single...day.... crying over blizzard are LITERALLY getting everything they ask for and they are STILL crying.

WAY more than any x.x.5 patch ever and more systems changes than any x.x patch ever. Also actual content in a x.x.5 patch (legion m+).

It's being done earlier than bfa and legion where restrictions were let up in x.2 or x.3.

It is simply people whining for validation.

[Kaver]

"Karens will be karens" is the reason people are upset.

The people raging and whining every... single...day.... crying over blizzard are LITERALLY getting everything they ask for and they are STILL crying.

WAY more than any x.x.5 patch ever and more systems changes than any x.x patch ever. Also actual content in a x.x.5 patch (legion m+).

It's being done earlier than bfa and legion where restrictions were let up in x.2 or x.3.

It is simply people whining for validation.

Blizzard fixing their own mistakes are not “good changes”. We expect them to makes a good game. And the overwhelming majority of the game have been against these systems for the beginning. Hence why people have been quitting the game.

Also by this time in Legion and BFA we were already at the .2 and .3 patch so in relation to time it has taken them just as long. And the “it’s not as bad as..” argument is horrible. Just make it good from the. Don’t benchmark the game based on BFA which was a horrible expansion.

We are not getting what we ask for. We ask for the launch of an expansion without unnecessary restrictive overcomplicated systems and Blizzard wont deliver that. The overwhelming majority is asking for this. And people are quitting because Blizzard keep refusing to do what the players want from the beginning.

We are paying them 15$ a month and we are getting almost no content because they waste their time cleaning up their own mess. Should we praise them for fixing issues they are 100% responsible for?

People like you are just drama seekers and not helping anything. You most likely don’t even play the game.

[Sin of Pride]

Sometimes I like to imagine I live in a reality where blizzard wasn't full of fools, listened to feedback and we are all currently waiting for 9.2 enjoying our chosen content without seeing people bitch and moan about how shit choreghast is and how they hate grinding artifact research.

Instead im watching as feedback that should of been acted on over a year ago is finally implemented. Least a lotta devs are being sacked so who knows maybe it will get better. Given how Ion said they want to make world content matter more for character progression though I doubt it.

[confety]

They did it with legion legendaries, in beta players told blizzard that the system would be bad if you cant select a legendary to pursuit.

They fucked up and we got the feedback system in .3

They did with azerite armor and corruptions, in beta players told blizzard that the system would be bad for a lot of reasons.

They fucked up and we got the azerite vendor and changes to other things after a year, also corruption vendor rotation KEKW.

They did it with covenants, in beta players told blizzard that at least we should be able to select the covenant ability or renown to be shadowlands wide so you dont lose it at change.


They did this exact thing 3 times in a row, create a system the majority of people dont want or like because how restrictive it is and the ammount of time you need to invest on it without being fun.

It has felt that blizzard want us to log in to do chores instead of log in to have fun.

Whoever is not seeing how many people is taking a break of the game for these and similar reasons is in extreme fanboy-copium, and im still playing for time to time but boy...