You are being carried...

[ellieg]

following your little sport analogy, why are you playing in a 40+ dad league team if you obviously want to play in a nfl team?

and the lack of understand how different people enjoy different things differently shows either a lack of empathy or a lack of experience. you should work on that.

still a nice blog post though ...

This. Different game but was playing hots while wow was down on Tuesday. First game in months, playing as nova in a quick match (think of it like a random dungeon from lfd) when a dude starts flaming me because I didn't do what he wanted me to do. Told him its quick match and to calm down. He replied much like OP claiming its like joining a basketball game but refusing to dribble because it's not my playstyle or some shit. Told him its more like him joining a pickup game and getting mad we arenr 6'5 dunking.

Ppl need to look around and adjust their expectations or move on

[TheLucky1]

How do i get carried while maintaining 80-90% logs (to be fair thats easy on kyr arcane) ?

For CE guilds i get the point but half of my guild has no idea how dom sockets work and we still got aotc this week, all i wanted.

[Biomega]

As an aside, what actually turned me off M+ wasn't the dungeons themselves, it was the stupid amount of time it takes to actually GET to doing the dungeon.

If you're not a tank and healer, it's an exercise in frustration. Either it takes forever to get into a group, or you make your own group that takes a long time to find tanks/healers for - and then disbands at the first wipe because the guy with 2,000 M+ score accidentally pulled a patrol or whatever. Yeah it's easy if you already have an established social group in the game to run with (guild, friends, etc.) but if you don't you're SoL'd. I don't want to play a social simulator trying to build up a peer group just so I can do M+. I don't have time for that (read: I don't want to spend my time doing that). If that means I can't go and raid, fine, I'll play other games instead.

[Hayduke]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

First time losing a trinket/weapon roll to a derp dps eh?

[Th3Scourge]

Are you mad?

You sound Mad.

No one cares. Play with like-minded players if you're butthurt over someone missing a socket

[Imurbandaid]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard, maybe.

- - - Updated - - -

As an aside, what actually turned me off M+ wasn't the dungeons themselves, it was the stupid amount of time it takes to actually GET to doing the dungeon.

If you're not a tank and healer, it's an exercise in frustration. Either it takes forever to get into a group, or you make your own group that takes a long time to find tanks/healers for - and then disbands at the first wipe because the guy with 2,000 M+ score accidentally pulled a patrol or whatever. Yeah it's easy if you already have an established social group in the game to run with (guild, friends, etc.) but if you don't you're SoL'd. I don't want to play a social simulator trying to build up a peer group just so I can do M+. I don't have time for that (read: I don't want to spend my time doing that). If that means I can't go and raid, fine, I'll play other games instead.

I don't think that applies here. Here he is strictly talking about how you would be hurting a raid group. If everyone in that raid shares that sentiment then clearly you don't need to sit in pug lfg groups and can run with your guild.

[Dropakeg]

OP, can we see logs? It's a lot easier to agree with someone who can back up their statements with data.

As for m+, yes, it is a valuable way to improve gear early on, and earlier this patch I was running 10+ 15s each week so that I had the best possible chance of getting good gear, as well as to assist my guildies. We have a few great players, though, that only ran a few each week, and I was and am still glad to tank for them so that overall the team gets even a bit better each week.

I hit 250 ilvl yesterday, so now there's really no reason to step into m+ any more except to help my friends gear out alts or new mains.

To some others' point, instead of getting mad and posting in forums online, see what you can do to help improve the situation. If you don't have the heart to help, then no one wants to hear your criticism.

[Biomega]

I don't think that applies here. Here he is strictly talking about how you would be hurting a raid group. If everyone in that raid shares that sentiment then clearly you don't need to sit in pug lfg groups and can run with your guild.

Well, I'm just saying, there's different reasons people don't do M+, and it's not as simple as "they just don't care about improving their character".

But yeah, obviously you need to find a raid group that matches your approach to the game. That's the ideal goal.

[Imurbandaid]

following your little sport analogy, why are you playing in a 40+ dad league team if you obviously want to play in a nfl team?

and the lack of understand how different people enjoy different things differently shows either a lack of empathy or a lack of experience. you should work on that.

still a nice blog post though ...

Shhhh he can't make it in the NFL, but he was really good in high school and he'll tell you until he's 60!

[klogaroth]

Maybe you should, I dunno, do something about it. You advocate for effort, but sit here on the forums, not taking action about the thing that's bothering you.

How is moaning on MMO-C gonna stop you from having a difference of playstyles in your guild? Maybe they're in the wrong guild and are slacking compared to what the guild's aims are. Maybe it's you that's wrong and you're expecting people in a guild created for raid loggers to put in way more playtime than they want/can devote to the game.

Also you know what you find in actually good guilds? Loads of people that spend months at a time logging in just for the raid.

[Empower]

Kinda? Early on for sure though this tier domination sockets cover 5 slots and your leggo takes one. If your a hunter the cloak is taking your back slot and most classes have mandatory effect weapons from raid that vastly outperform their ilv.

While important early on mythic plus losses its potency faster then ever before this tier.

[Droodid]

It's a game, not a job. Play it to enjoy it. If you think that's farming M+ outside of raid, create a guild and go for that as a requirement. I don't like M+, I like to raid, I found a guild that solely focuses on that.

Stop making everything a min/max, or essentially acting like it's a job. It's a video game.

[Hellobolis]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

before you kill 3 mythic bosses? yeah you gotto do 1-4 M+ a week even tho that's when M+ is hardest.

after you kill 3 mythic bosses? especially this tier with all the dom gear? who cares. but nice if you do at least 1.

after you are geared/when you start extending raid? who cares.


also good to keep in mind that gear is very rarely the thing holding back your progress, almost always it's skill or guild politics (e.g. not recruiting enough or not wanting to kick friends even though they are obviously too bad for the teams level).

fun comparison: half our guild hates pvp and did 0 pvp at the start of SL when it was the easy source of good gear, and that didn't affect out progress at all.

[Ealyssa]

dad league team if you obviously want to play in a nfl team?

The dad league still train tho. They don't bitch they just want to come to games...

[EyelessCrow]

Someone got dunked on by someone in his guild and came to the forums to cry.

[Imurbandaid]

The dad league still train tho. They don't bitch they just want to come to games...

My dad played in a dad league and they all used to play to have some recreation tuesday nights then go grab wings and beer from their team sponsor restaurant. Its a perfect analogy, actually.

[Skirdus]

Being able to properly execute raid mechanics has absolutely nothing to do with M+.

You do realize that the game intentionally gives you multiple ways to gear your character... right?

[Fenrys]

following your little sport analogy, why are you playing in a 40+ dad league team if you obviously want to play in a nfl team?

and the lack of understand how different people enjoy different things differently shows either a lack of empathy or a lack of experience. you should work on that.

still a nice blog post though ...

Really valid point. To the OP; its all about expectations - if you are in an AotC guild or worse, it really doesn't matter what you do outside of raid, you'll still be fine. If your guild is involved in more difficult content - thenits all about what your guild requires. If it doesn't set a requirement, that's on the guild. Furthermore, if someone doesn't try to get relatively simple edges, they will probably lose their spot to someone who is willing.

It sounds like you want to be in a guild which does set a requirement, so I'd recommending changing guilds or having a conversation with your guild leadership

[Blackmist]

I was never a fan of spamming dungeons before. Was not a fan of the challenge dungeons since it was all just shortcut taking BS, same with M+. If I was ever "required" to run them for any reason to raid, I'd just find a new guild. Thankfully we just raid for fun.

Yeah, it's just the LFD gogogo mentality that has been a cancer since late Wrath. M+ weaponised it. I'm all for harder dungeons and scaling to keep things relevant, but the timed aspect feels unnecessary. The reward for finishing faster should be that you get your rewards faster. And one diva throwing a tantrum mid run, or a mistake or just a bug being a wasted key has made me not want to interact with it.

[Chriisto]

Thank you to the people who offered advice. Some helpful suggestions that I'll take on board.

This post seems to have triggered a lot more people than I thought it would though. I guess they are just the ones being carried in their guilds. Truth hurts I guess. Oh well.