FFXIV wins best community and best still playing at golden joystick awards

[Goatfish]

I mean, my own experience in the game is very similar to WoW. In general if you approach people nicely and talk to them ahead of time, they tend to match your energy in both games. Usually random pugs or people questing don't even talk to you besides a quick hello or gg.

I think the biggest difference is that damage meters are banned, so a lot of people don't risk using them, or at least don't show they are upset when someone is being an absolute shitter. I've had players get mad at the first wipe and leave in both WoW and FF14. Honestly it's the heavy handedness of the GMs and peoples willingness to report the smallest event that makes FF14 seem like a better community. It's also what leads to the huge passive-aggressive bullshit other people have pointed out. If you aren't allowed to be an asshole to someone's face, you will find ways within the rules to fuck with them. (heck, this happens on this very forum, and has for over a decade.)

I mean seriously. Is it that hard to believe that more people just block/report and walk away because they know if they respond too aggressively that they might be the one sent to the gulag? I don't know if that makes it a "better community", but it is effective and preventing people from being mean or trolling in chat.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I mean, my own experience in the game is very similar to WoW. In general if you approach people nicely and talk to them ahead of time, they tend to match your energy in both games. Usually random pugs or people questing don't even talk to you besides a quick hello or gg.

I think the biggest difference is that damage meters are banned, so a lot of people don't risk using them, or at least don't show they are upset when someone is being an absolute shitter. I've had players get mad at the first wipe and leave in both WoW and FF14. Honestly it's the heavy handedness of the GMs and peoples willingness to report the smallest event that makes FF14 seem like a better community. It's also what leads to the huge passive-aggressive bullshit other people have pointed out. If you aren't allowed to be an asshole to someone's face, you will find ways within the rules to fuck with them. (heck, this happens on this very forum, and has for over a decade.)

I mean seriously. Is it that hard to believe that more people just block/report and walk away because they know if they respond too aggressively that they might be the one sent to the gulag? I don't know if that makes it a "better community", but it is effective and preventing people from being mean or trolling in chat.

Ah yes, more of the same "If you're not an openly aggressive person, or are not allowed to be openly aggressive, then you're passive aggressive" myth that keeps making the rounds.

[Goatfish]

Ah yes, more of the same "If you're not an openly aggressive person, or are not allowed to be openly aggressive, then you're passive aggressive" myth that keeps making the rounds.

How is it a myth? People get mad in multiplayer games. This is true of all multiplayer games from football and MMA to Battletoads and Chess. It's not like the entire community of FF14 just happen to be saints. A form of passive aggressive behavior could just be dropping group without saying anything, and I saw that happen a lot in FF14.

The FF14 pug community at least is one where you might get reported for mentioning that a tank might not be skilled enough to fulfill his role. Or that your healer cast a whole 5 spells in 2 minutes because they were busy looking at the scenery. Calling someone out for poor performance is considered targeted harassment in a game where you may need to perform well as a group to complete the objective. If you think that doesn't stew in people even a little then idk what to say.

[KrayZee33]

How is it a myth? People get mad in multiplayer games. This is true of all multiplayer games from football and MMA to Battletoads and Chess. It's not like the entire community of FF14 just happen to be saints. A form of passive aggressive behavior could just be dropping group without saying anything, and I saw that happen a lot in FF14.

The FF14 pug community at least is one where you might get reported for mentioning that a tank might not be skilled enough to fulfill his role. Or that your healer cast a whole 5 spells in 2 minutes because they were busy looking at the scenery. Calling someone out for poor performance is considered targeted harassment in a game where you may need to perform well as a group to complete the objective. If you think that doesn't stew in people even a little then idk what to say.

I think it's far more likely that people don't feel the need to shit on people when there is hardly any content that can't be beaten even if people play like the first gamers on earth.
It's harder to be mad at something when you are still winning. I mean, if I leave my DPS meter on I can see bad play every time I join a dungeon, but it doesn't really matter. You wouldn't see as much trash-talk in WoW either if you'd still clear everything without wiping. Some people would still be assholes about "having to do all the work", sure, but most would simply not and just "sigh" when they have to do it.

The 5% that is difficult and done with randoms (i.e Savage PUGs) isn't worth being angry about either because you can just leave and look for a new group, which you have to do either way due to how group content is designed... and you aren't losing anything either, because you just jump right to the boss with the next group you join.
You don't lose a keystone or something like that.

Not to mention that there are dedicated clear groups and training groups and you have to clear the boss once to get into clear groups and since FFXIV encounter design actually requires everyone to be able to do mechanics 99,5% of the time (otherwise the group will just wipe), you know that this guy does at least know what to do and all you have to meet is a rather lenient DPS requirement for 3/4 raid bosses each tier.

Also, leaving the group and calling that "passive aggressive" is kinda wild.

[Goatfish]

I think it's far more likely that people don't feel the need to shit on people when there is hardly any content that can't be beaten even if people play like the first gamers on earth.
It's harder to be mad at something when you are still winning. I mean, if I leave my DPS meter on I can see bad play every time I join a dungeon, but it doesn't really matter. You wouldn't see as much trash-talk in WoW either if you'd still clear everything without wiping. Some people would still be assholes about "having to do all the work", sure, but most would simply not and just "sigh" when they have to do it.

The 5% that is difficult and done with randoms (i.e Savage PUGs) isn't worth being angry about either because you can just leave and look for a new group, which you have to do either way due to how group content is designed... and you aren't losing anything either, because you just jump right to the boss with the next group you join.
You don't lose a keystone or something like that.

Not to mention that there are dedicated clear groups and training groups and you have to clear the boss once to get into clear groups and since FFXIV encounter design actually requires everyone to be able to do mechanics 99,5% of the time (otherwise the group will just wipe), you know that this guy does at least know what to do and all you have to meet is a rather lenient DPS requirement for 3/4 raid bosses each tier.

Also, leaving the group and calling that "passive aggressive" is kinda wild.

I mean it's the same way in WoW. Unless you are pushing harder content (AOTC+ or +15's and above) then you really don't need to be that great at the game and it's generally not a huge deal to carry someone. You can also just leave the group and join someone else right away for everything that isn't mythic raids (which I think is a stupid restriction).

As far as leaving the group without saying something. Of course I am talking about doing so in a disruptive manner. Mid pull, immediately after first wipe, right after first boss. There are a lot of people with wildly discordant levels of frustration, and a lot of people just going into things already stressed out (because a lot of people play games to destress). I saw this just as much in FF as I do in WoW. In general my WoW interactions are neutral to good, just as they were in FF. I think the toxicity that people seem to talk so much about in WoW is just rare events that stick out in their mind, or maybe it's just a return of the energy they put out.

But again, the GM's in FF are known for being easy to swing on the ban hammer, and players take advantage of that in pug culture for sure. It's no surprise that there wouldn't be as much if they all get banned, and that people would be more careful with their words. There are plenty of people against free speech, and I think it's possibly valid to be so. I'm just saying that the fact that it is peaceful under an authoritarian regime doesn't necessarily mean the community is "good".

[KrayZee33]

I mean it's the same way in WoW. Unless you are pushing harder content (AOTC+ or +15's and above) then you really don't need to be that great at the game and it's generally not a huge deal to carry someone. You can also just leave the group and join someone else right away for everything that isn't mythic raids (which I think is a stupid restriction).

WoW LFR is more difficult than 8-man "normal-mode" raiding in FFXIV.
And in normal, heroic, and mythic+0 you don't see the toxic stuff in WoW that often either.

You see it in more difficult PUG raids and in M+
And that's where most players are, while in FFXIV, most players don't even touch the difficult (Savage Raiding + Ultimate) stuff.
At most, they do expert trials.

It's a different community because the game is different. The game isn't as competitive and thus it isn't as toxic.

edit: And also, since data is not as readily available as in WoW, you get less shat on overall as well and since the group size is pretty small, you can choose which guys you want to play difficult content with more easily. While in WoW you have to find 19+ others to even start it when you want to Raid Mythic.

And you can develop your character and progress outside of raids/difficult content.
You can get the same ilvl as Savage Raiders by grinding what WoW would call "normal" dungeons... and it doesn't even take *that* much longer.
We aren't talking about a whole patch/tier.
Overall, the game is designed to be less frustrating in that regard and that's why the community has fewer reasons to lash out on each other.

[StrawberryZebra]

No wonder it won, you are basically forced to erp and suck each other off or you get banned.

Best lesson I learned about FF is not to talk to any randos because people get offended over everything. It's basically twitter the video game.

I admit that I've had negative experiences with the FF14 community but this is more than a little over exagerated.

As much as I feel like a complete misfit in FF14 at times, I've never needed to perform sexual acts to avoid getting banned. Take it from someone who's had mutiple stints in GM Jail that you're not going to get banned for upsetting people every now and then. The worst I've ever had to do is justify it to a GM, which is straight forward enough when it's an honest misunderstanding.

Ah yes, more of the same "If you're not an openly aggressive person, or are not allowed to be openly aggressive, then you're passive aggressive" myth that keeps making the rounds.

You're right in that assuming that other people don't want conflict isn't always passive aggressive behaviour, however despite this passive aggressive behaviour does happen.

People are going to get frustrated and angry about others in game, and they're probably going to let it show one way or another. Without the option to say what they feel, it's going to manifest in other, more passive aggressive ways. That might be taking it to Discord or a private chat channel instead, or it could be "rescuing" the tank into Lava.

Even just carrying on in silence could be seen as passive aggressive depending on the situation. Let's not pretend that everyone in the FF14 community is a saint just because they're not calling you a retard to your face.

[Byleth]

Let's not pretend that everyone in the FF14 community is a saint just because they're not calling you a retard to your face.

I'd rather choose to believe that people are nice unless proven otherwise.

Living your way just seems sad.

[MrTarget]

I'd rather choose to believe that people are nice unless proven otherwise.

Living your way just seems sad.

And yet, if you live that way, you'll always be disappointed. Much easier to just assume the worst and enjoy it when you get something different.

[Thestrawman]

And yet, if you live that way, you'll always be disappointed. Much easier to just assume the worst and enjoy it when you get something different.

Be careful not to cut yourself on that edge kid.

[Katsutomai]

And yet, if you live that way, you'll always be disappointed. Much easier to just assume the worst and enjoy it when you get something different.

How many accounts you plan on making to avoid those bans you keep getting?

[Caerrona]

WoW LFR is more difficult than 8-man "normal-mode" raiding in FFXIV.
And in normal, heroic, and mythic+0 you don't see the toxic stuff in WoW that often either.

You see it in more difficult PUG raids and in M+
And that's where most players are, while in FFXIV, most players don't even touch the difficult (Savage Raiding + Ultimate) stuff.
At most, they do expert trials.

It's a different community because the game is different. The game isn't as competitive and thus it isn't as toxic.

edit: And also, since data is not as readily available as in WoW, you get less shat on overall as well and since the group size is pretty small, you can choose which guys you want to play difficult content with more easily. While in WoW you have to find 19+ others to even start it when you want to Raid Mythic.

And you can develop your character and progress outside of raids/difficult content.
You can get the same ilvl as Savage Raiders by grinding what WoW would call "normal" dungeons... and it doesn't even take *that* much longer.
We aren't talking about a whole patch/tier.
Overall, the game is designed to be less frustrating in that regard and that's why the community has fewer reasons to lash out on each other.

Yeah, when the content is clearable with knuckle dragging monkeys there really isn't that much reason to rage.

I only run dps meters in ultimates, everything else is just not needed because nothing can really be failed with a goblin trying to throw the run/boss. It's press w the video game.

[Byleth]

Ahh, yes.

When all other thrown shit doesn't stick, lets just call the game easy. Good one....

[Velnora]

Ahh, yes.

When all other thrown shit doesn't stick, lets just call the game easy. Good one....

Outside of ultimates and savage, the game is painfully easy.

[Byleth]

Outside of ultimates and savage, the game is painfully easy.

Sort of agree... But defs "harder" than WoW's LFR.

[Velnora]

Sort of agree... But defs "harder" than WoW's LFR.

Taking into account the quality of players in LFR, no, there really isn't anything outside of raids in FF14 that have even slightest difficulty. Granted, the game suffers from being able to actually utilize your acquired raid gear outside of said raids.

[Lane]

An easy dungeon with a bad group is going to seem hard, a challenging dungeon with a skilled group will seem easy. It's why I hate blanket statements about the difficulty level of any game that has you rely on multiple other people for success.

[Cthulhu 2020]

How is it a myth? People get mad in multiplayer games. This is true of all multiplayer games from football and MMA to Battletoads and Chess. It's not like the entire community of FF14 just happen to be saints. A form of passive aggressive behavior could just be dropping group without saying anything, and I saw that happen a lot in FF14.

The FF14 pug community at least is one where you might get reported for mentioning that a tank might not be skilled enough to fulfill his role. Or that your healer cast a whole 5 spells in 2 minutes because they were busy looking at the scenery. Calling someone out for poor performance is considered targeted harassment in a game where you may need to perform well as a group to complete the objective. If you think that doesn't stew in people even a little then idk what to say.

People do have those thoughts, but they do not act on them and ultimately just let them go. I'm not saying there's zero negativity or passive aggressiveness. But there's this line going around that if you're not OPENLY an asshole them you must be talking about someone behind their back.

What if I'm one of those people who's not analyzing other people's performance and just enjoy running random dungeons for the fun of it? I'm not openly aggressive, nor do I feel passive aggressive emotions towards people for poor performance. I do not deny that there's ZERO passive aggressiveness, but the continued insistence makes it sound like it's more prominent than it actually is. Most people I encounter are by far and away, incredibly nice. I'm not going to sit here and stew about what they might be thinking of me negatively just because they're being nice.

- - - Updated - - -

WoW LFR is more difficult than 8-man "normal-mode" raiding in FFXIV.
And in normal, heroic, and mythic+0 you don't see the toxic stuff in WoW that often either.

You see it in more difficult PUG raids and in M+
And that's where most players are, while in FFXIV, most players don't even touch the difficult (Savage Raiding + Ultimate) stuff.
At most, they do expert trials.

It's a different community because the game is different. The game isn't as competitive and thus it isn't as toxic.

edit: And also, since data is not as readily available as in WoW, you get less shat on overall as well and since the group size is pretty small, you can choose which guys you want to play difficult content with more easily. While in WoW you have to find 19+ others to even start it when you want to Raid Mythic.

And you can develop your character and progress outside of raids/difficult content.
You can get the same ilvl as Savage Raiders by grinding what WoW would call "normal" dungeons... and it doesn't even take *that* much longer.
We aren't talking about a whole patch/tier.
Overall, the game is designed to be less frustrating in that regard and that's why the community has fewer reasons to lash out on each other.

FF does have overall less high end raiders, but th e high end raiding scene is probably about 10% as toxic as WoW's, if even that much. Some of the world first raiders are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. If you've watched Rin Karigani on twitch at all, you can't tell me there's a single toxic bone in his body.

- - - Updated - - -

Even just carrying on in silence could be seen as passive aggressive depending on the situation. Let's not pretend that everyone in the FF14 community is a saint just because they're not calling you a retard to your face.

My only argument ever has been that the community that does speak out, is incredibly helpful and welcoming, as well as large. People can stew in silence if they want. The rest of us enjoy being helpful and positive. It's a much more fulfilling experience than screaming "you suck" at someone and quitting the group in a rage.

[chiddie]

And you can develop your character and progress outside of raids/difficult content.
You can get the same ilvl as Savage Raiders by grinding what WoW would call "normal" dungeons... and it doesn't even take *that* much longer.
We aren't talking about a whole patch/tier.
Overall, the game is designed to be less frustrating in that regard and that's why the community has fewer reasons to lash out on each other.

This is basically the difference that makes the two communities different.

If you are forced in the triad to have meaningful progress and you have to rely on LF something, you will run into toxic behavior (more) sooner (than) or later.

In WoW people are more worried about what others should not get than then worrying about what they are getting.

[KrayZee33]

Sort of agree... But defs "harder" than WoW's LFR.

No. It really isn't.

I sometimes wipe in LFR and most of the times I don't (which is content I rarely do anyway), I sometimes wipe in normal(! maybe you missed that detail?) 8-man raids when they come out, but most of the time I don't. (and it's content I rarely do as well)

Iron Maidens in WoD and the whole Azshara raid was pretty awful to do in LFR because you'd (I did) wipe so often (and I don't even know why I did them anymore, lol).
I don't remember any significant issues in any of the 8-man content I did in FFXIV.

Omega, Alexander, Eden, any normal Trials - I did these blind when they were current and I did rarely die, and even more rarely wipe as there are unlimited amount of revives and most(all?) of them don't have an enrage either