Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elder Millennial]

The Black Sea isn't covered by article 5. Per article 6, article 5 only covers member state's territories in Europe, North America, Turkey and Atlantic islands north of the Tropic of Cancer. An attack on Hawaii wouldn't trigger article 5, nor would an attack in international waters as it isn't member state's territory. Its possible they could try and make an exception but there is no guarantee.

I did a whole lot of reading up on this because I was frankly unaware of the territorial limitations imposed by article 6.

The non-inclusion of the international waters of the Black Sea seems to be tied to the weird special snowflake rights Turkey got itself via The Treaty of Montreux and to the fact that when the treaty was first written, the Black Sea was practically a Soviet lake.

Upon joining NATO neither Bulgaria or Romania seem to have pressed the issue, which is kinda understandable, but puts them in a strange position where their navies can really only safely operate under NATO protection in their own territorial waters.

Considering the developments in the area, I really think they should revise that clause to include the Black Sea, tho it's another one of the points where the Turks might be uncooperative due to their desire to protect their special snowflake rights.

[Valerossi]

Apparently I need to reiterate that this thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Says so in the title. Not NATO. Not Obama. Not Bush. Not Blair. Not Kissinger.

Do not derail the thread with whataboutism. Post on topic.

Absolutely moronic to state that NATO is off limits to bring up in this thread as its supposed future expansion to include Ukraine was a key reason ( and excuse )for Putin’s “ special military operation “.

[Iphie]

Absolutely moronic to state that NATO is off limits to bring up in this thread as its supposed future expansion to include Ukraine was a key reason ( and excuse )for Putin’s “ special military operation “.

NATO can be brought up IN THE CONTEXT of the war, not as "but NATO did x in y country totally unrelated to this war.".

[alach]

Also, a reminder that Putin has an international arrest warrant for mass-kidnapping and child abduction on an extremely large scale, not for actually invading and bringing war to another country, so again, zero parallels with whatever American or British leader someone seems to be angry and bitter at.

Anyhow, heres an interesting video that really shows the true face of the average Russian, and how they honestly feel about the war... *hint* the biggest reveal is at the end.

Russians come face to face with Putin's horrific Ukraine war crimes in Lithuania



I have no sympathy for these people...

[gondrin]

So, what is the best way to get the Russians to give up their military positions and the like? Take a bunch of young horny guys in the Russian military and have AI generated dating profiles seduce them into giving up information.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...32308b9c&ei=23

Ukrainian women are using dating profiles with AI images to trick horny Russian soldiers into giving away secrets, report says

Ukrainian women are using dating profiles with AI images to trick Russian soldiers into giving away military secrets, The Times reported on Wednesday.

A woman identified only as Angelina told the publication that since the start of Russia's invasion last year, she has been using online dating apps to target Russian soldiers operating in occupied bored areas in Ukraine.

Angelina said she uses AI-generated profile pictures and a pseudonym to lure in men posting pictures in military uniform online.

The soldiers, she said, constantly reveal information about the state of the Russian army, which she then passes on to the Ukrainian military.

"We're looking for information about the number of troops, information on the amount of military equipment, the success or lack of success of some attacks, their problems with food and equipment," she told The Times.

Some of the information she has received includes photos of a military passport and videos of soldiers driving, which she can then use to track their location.

Angelina's colleague, a Ukrainian woman who uses the pseudonym Masha, told the Times that she tries to avoid men who are particularly "horny" because they are "less likely he is to talk about anything else."

Both women often make fun of the soldiers, who they refer to as "orcs" — a name Ukrainians commonly use to describe Russians during the war.

"I chatted with Maxim Korneev for a couple of months, this simple guy with a round face. He makes loads of mistakes in his messages — it's unusual to meet someone who writes like this who is not a child," Angelina joked, according to The Times.

"He was responsible for training, he went on trips to train mobilized soldiers in the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. He told me that army benefits had actually been cut since the start of the war, rather than increased [as Putin says]."

Another soldier asked Angelina to marry him, screenshots shared with The Times show. The soldier tried to persuade her by saying that she could win his compensation if he deliberately gets wounded in the war.

Angelina, whose brother fought and died in the war last year, said she feels no sympathy for the soldiers.

"I hope what we do means something bad happens to them," she said.

Helping the war effort in this way is not unusual in Ukraine. An OnlyFans-inspired group in Ukraine has been selling nude pictures of themselves to fundraise for their armed forces, Insider previously reported.

[Sunseeker]

So, what is the best way to get the Russians to give up their military positions and the like? Take a bunch of young horny guys in the Russian military and have AI generated dating profiles seduce them into giving up information.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...32308b9c&ei=23

Alright, that's pretty fuckin hilarious. Good job.

[MCMLXXXII]

Alright, that's pretty fuckin hilarious. Good job.

YUPPIE is going to criticize this. How dare those Ukrainians use such inhuman tactics.

[zealo]

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...08775517954051

BREAKING NEWS:

A statement by Ukrainian Defense Ministry:

‼️The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine warns that from 00:00 July 21, 2023, all vessels heading through the waters of the Black Sea in the direction of seaports of the Russian Federation and Ukrainian seaports located on the territory of Ukraine that is temporarily occupied by Russia may be considered by Ukraine as carrying military cargo with all the associated risks.

In addition, navigation in the areas of the North-Eastern part of the Black Sea and the Kerch-Yenikal Strait of Ukraine is prohibited as dangerous, from 05:00 on July 20, 2023. Relevant navigational information for mariners has already been published.

The Russian Federation has once again brutally violated the universal right to free navigation for the whole world and is deliberately undermining food security, condemning millions of people to starvation.

By openly threatening civilian ships transporting food from Ukrainian ports, launching missile attacks and drone attacks on civilian infrastructure in peaceful cities, deliberately creating a military threat on trade routes, the Kremlin has turned the Black Sea into a danger zone, primarily for Russian ships and ships heading in the waters of the Black Sea in the direction of seaports of the Russian Federation and Ukrainian seaports located on the territory of Ukraine temporarily occupied by Russia. The responsibility for all risks lies entirely with the Russian leadership.

The fate of the cruiser "Moscow" proves that the Defense Forces of Ukraine have the necessary means to repel Russian aggression at sea.

Seems like two can play at that game, going to be interesting to see how the ruskies bitch about that.

[Makabreska]

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...08775517954051



Seems like two can play at that game, going to be interesting to see how the ruskies bitch about that.

"Nazi terrorist aggressors!"

Not hard to figure it out.

[unfilteredJW]

Oh hey! Ruskies favourite accusation! De-nazification of MMO-C when???

They drive views and engagement to the forums so never.

[Corvus]

Xi is probably going to have to have words with pootie again. The strikes at Odessa not only destroyed 60000 tons of grain destined for China but also damaged the Chinese consulate there.

- - - Updated - - -

There are reports the Gherkin has been arrested by russian law enforcement. I'm surprised it took so long.

[Gabriel]

There are reports the Gherkin has been arrested by russian law enforcement. I'm surprised it took so long.

Thoughts and prayers.

[Iphie]

There are reports the Gherkin has been arrested by russian law enforcement. I'm surprised it took so long.

Two observations here:
1. Gherkin represents a more radical part of the nationalists.
2. He was falling into the pit of "defeatism".

By removing him russia *could* turn towards a more moderate approach. (COULD, underline 20 times. I don't think so but by removing an escalatory voice it's easier to push the moderate narrative.)

As for my second observation, removing a defeatist from a place of influence is not a bad thing from russia's pov.

That said, if true nothing of value was lost and if russia wants to score brownie points they extradite him to the Netherlands we'd like to personally thank him for MH-17....

[Gabriel]

Two observations here:
1. Gherkin represents a more radical part of the nationalists.
2. He was falling into the pit of "defeatism".

By removing him russia *could* turn towards a more moderate approach. (COULD, underline 20 times. I don't think so but by removing an escalatory voice it's easier to push the moderate narrative.)

As for my second observation, removing a defeatist from a place of influence is not a bad thing from russia's pov.

That said, if true nothing of value was lost and if russia wants to score brownie points they extradite him to the Netherlands we'd like to personally thank him for MH-17....

I don't really care about it one way or the other, but this just goes to show how much Russia values the useful idiots (I know he is GRU) that simp for the Russian government initially.

[YUPPIE]

I'm just shocked. Russia is employing starvation tactics against civilians, enacting borderline terrorist attacks on grain silos, and threatening to kill anyone crossing the Black Sea in paranoia. And yet, not many repercussions for this. I haven't even seen any mention of sanctions in a while now.

[Edge-]

And yet, not many repercussions for this.

When are you volunteering to give Russia the repercussions you think they deserve?

[YUPPIE]

When are you volunteering to give Russia the repercussions you think they deserve?

I don't know if you're taking this seriously, so let me put it in simpler terms:

Russia is now wholeheartedly aiming at civilians in light of their failures. I mean like one can make the statement they've been raping, murdering (etc) from day one, but now it's visibly becoming more blatant in a way. The threat to sink any Black Sea ship sailing toward Ukraine was the most emboldened one. I feel like Russia is becoming more confident due to lack of meaningful sanctions or consequences in general.

[Edge-]

I don't know if you're taking this seriously

I absolutely am. I doubt you are given that, "Russia continues doing the things it's been doing all war long." is apparently shocking to you. "Russia is doing the things everyone said they would do." is apparently shocking to you.

Russia is now wholeheartedly aiming at civilians in light of their failures. I mean like one can make the statement they've been raping, murdering (etc) from day one, but now it's visibly becoming more blatant in a way. The threat to sink any Black Sea ship sailing toward Ukraine was the most emboldened one. I feel like Russia is becoming more confident due to lack of meaningful sanctions or consequences in general.

If this was like, March 2022 this would be "new" and relevant. This has been literally what's been happening since the start of the war, yet here you are acting as if this is new or different.

[Gabriel]

I don't know if you're taking this seriously, so let me put it in simpler terms:

Russia is now wholeheartedly aiming at civilians in light of their failures. I mean like one can make the statement they've been raping, murdering (etc) from day one, but now it's visibly becoming more blatant in a way. The threat to sink any Black Sea ship sailing toward Ukraine was the most emboldened one. I feel like Russia is becoming more confident due to lack of meaningful sanctions or consequences in general.

Yuppie pls.

[Saradain]

I don't know if you're taking this seriously, so let me put it in simpler terms:

Russia is now wholeheartedly aiming at civilians in light of their failures. I mean like one can make the statement they've been raping, murdering (etc) from day one, but now it's visibly becoming more blatant in a way. The threat to sink any Black Sea ship sailing toward Ukraine was the most emboldened one. I feel like Russia is becoming more confident due to lack of meaningful sanctions or consequences in general.

You mean desperate, ensuring Africa and other nations not getting their grain, and those nations still gulp the propaganda that Ukraine is at fault there.