Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Makabreska]

Welp, Russia keeps going full retard. I do wonder if these atrocities were ordered from the top, or is Putler slightly loosing control over rank and file soldats and their commanders.

[Flarelaine]

Welp, Russia keeps going full retard. I do wonder if these atrocities were ordered from the top, or is Putler slightly loosing control over rank and file soldats and their commanders.

Even if specific atrocities are not separately ordered, the attitude is ingrained and cultivated in the armed forces.

[zealo]

Welp, Russia keeps going full retard. I do wonder if these atrocities were ordered from the top, or is Putler slightly loosing control over rank and file soldats and their commanders.

This is most definitely coming from up top too when Putin in his own words called Ukrainian nationhood "an infection introduced to the Russian host by the Bolsheviks".

He couldn't have gone more mask off in regards to how he views Ukraine and it's people.

- - - Updated - - -

Is Easo banned or something? I miss his lengthy posts.

No, he is not banned. He has simply decided to stop posting. Take your guesses as to why, but it started happening right around the time more information about what they did in Bucha started trickling in.

[Makabreska]

No, he is not banned. He has simply decided to stop posting. Take your guesses as to why, but it started happening right around the time more information about what they did in Bucha started trickling in.

Which still did not stop him from throwing #doubt at first reports.

[Flarelaine]

It's more than that. I tried to convey this before, but posters in physical proximity to the events and some recollections of life in the Eastern Bloc* appear to have been more reserved about Ukraine's prospects throughout the whole affair which most of the thread did not appreciate. It's not being pro-Russian; it's a healthy apprehension concerning what Russia is capable of, militarily or morally.


*by which I mean Easo and CostinR chiefly

[Belize]

It's more than that. I tried to convey this before, but posters in physical proximity to the events and some recollections of life in the Eastern Bloc* appear to have been more reserved about Ukraine's prospects throughout the whole affair which most of the thread did not appreciate. It's not being pro-Russian; it's a healthy apprehension concerning what Russia is capable of, militarily or morally.


*by which I mean Easo and CostinR chiefly

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. There's a severe difference between healthy apprehension of something, and having an absolute double standard of events. One which has been proven to be wrong and misguided since week 2.

[Kathranis]

Welp, Russia keeps going full retard. I do wonder if these atrocities were ordered from the top, or is Putler slightly loosing control over rank and file soldats and their commanders.

What would ever make you think he has any control over the rank and file? The rank and file are barely able to even maintain communication with each other.

[Corvus]

Slovakia has confirmed they have sent S-300 air defence units to Ukraine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/eduardheg...86024399376389

[zorkuus]

Welp, Russia keeps going full retard. I do wonder if these atrocities were ordered from the top, or is Putler slightly loosing control over rank and file soldats and their commanders.

There are intercepted communications where soldiers are given direct orders to kill civilians.

[Vladier]

It's actually wild to me. I mean I know that cultural brainwashing is a big thing in Russia due to their dictator for life leadership style, but common human decency? Empathy? How do these things not exist? I can't imagine being a human without having those things. I wouldn't be able to pull the trigger on a missile strike targeting civilians no matter what pressures or threats loomed over me, like my body physically wouldn't allow it.

Are all Russian military members just clinical psychopaths or what? Because that's what you are if you lack those basic human qualities.

The thing is, that very same propaganda that pushes for destruction of Ukraine does so by stoking empathy for the people of Donbass and Luhansk bombed for 8 years by Ukraine. Empathy isn't some transcendent kindness, it's an ability to feel for the other person, is a limited resource, and Russian people were repeatedly told that people of the "republics" were suffering from constant bombings from the Evil Ukrainian Nazis. So these atrocities, when they aren't simply denied as Western propaganda, are seen as justice exacted upon the Nazis and their supporters. It's simple dehumanization and radicalization. The other side to the propaganda is instilling the "us vs them" mentality through fear and nationalism, which also isn't conductive to empathizing with "the enemy".

And yes, military is probably filled with psychopaths, whether born or trained. Any military, it's kind of a requirement for a soldier to not be a compassionate pacifist, although, as has been mentioned, Russian military puts its conscripts through brutal hazing seemingly just to drain empathy and instill pure obedience and "kill or be killed" mindset. Although apparently, from the German article, most of the killings started after the younger Russian fighters were rotated out for Khadyrov's Chechens and the Wagner Group, so it would seem that there is a limit to a regular soldier's brutality. Also explains why those units are even there, despite at least the formers' actual combat effectiveness being at about the level of Ivan Grozny's oprichnina.

Initial casualty reports are coming in with at least 30 dead and 100 wounded.

Is it wrong that some part of me would like to see what has been done to cities like Mariupol happen to Moscow and St Petersburg? To give the Russian people a taste of the hell they have inflicted on Ukraine for over a month.

Yes, at least because those cities are where most of the anti-war protests happen. Not that I can blame you for these thoughts.

[Vakna]

The thing is, that very same propaganda that pushes for destruction of Ukraine does so by stoking empathy for the people of Donbass and Luhansk bombed for 8 years by Ukraine. Empathy isn't some transcendent kindness, it's an ability to feel for the other person, is a limited resource, and Russian people were repeatedly told that people of the "republics" were suffering from constant bombings from the Evil Ukrainian Nazis. So these atrocities, when they aren't simply denied as Western propaganda, are seen as justice exacted upon the Nazis and their supporters. It's simple dehumanization and radicalization. The other side to the propaganda is instilling the "us vs them" mentality through fear and nationalism, which also isn't conductive to empathizing with "the enemy".

And yes, military is probably filled with psychopaths, whether born or trained. Any military, it's kind of a requirement for a soldier to not be a compassionate pacifist, although, as has been mentioned, Russian military puts its conscripts through brutal hazing seemingly just to drain empathy and instill pure obedience and "kill or be killed" mindset. Although apparently, from the German article, most of the killings started after the younger Russian fighters were rotated out for Khadyrov's Chechens and the Wagner Group, so it would seem that there is a limit to a regular soldier's brutality. Also explains why those units are even there, despite at least the formers' actual combat effectiveness being at about the level of Ivan Grozny's oprichnina.


Yes, at least because those cities are where most of the anti-war protests happen. Not that I can blame you for these thoughts.

I don't think that empathy for the people of Donbas and Luhansk could make someone slaughter civilian villagers and children who are just trying to live their lives though. I could be on board with your theory of the Russian military was destroying the Ukrainian military because of empathy for Donbass, but they are murdering random beauty salon workers who are just riding home on their bicycle. What do these people have to do with attacks on Donbass or the war in general? Does the military think that they are liberating Donbass by killing a random supermarket shelf stacker and his 4 year old son who lives 500km away? Are they liberating Donbass by firing a cruise missile into an apartment building and obliterating random people? Are they liberating Donbass by systematically destroying every single hospital in southeast Ukraine?

[Yunru]

Russan soldiers are being recruted to fight Putin now.

[zorkuus]

I don't think that empathy for the people of Donbas and Luhansk could make someone slaughter civilian villagers and children who are just trying to live their lives though.

Not to mention wanton rape and looting. What does that accomplish in the eyes of these soldiers who are supposedly feeling empathy? This evil goes deeper.

[ati87]

Oh I won't be shocked, especially when the wealthy people in Western Europe are asked to help out in the same way that Poland and Romania, my country, have helped out when we get overwhelmed: Poland, Romania, Hungary etc. can't sustain this level for much longer.

Pff don't try to take the moral high ground though because, I'm not sure about Romania, but Hungary and Poland are hardly the countries to look up to when dealing with refugees.

[Poopymonster]

I don't think that empathy for the people of Donbas and Luhansk could make someone slaughter civilian villagers and children who are just trying to live their lives though. I could be on board with your theory of the Russian military was destroying the Ukrainian military because of empathy for Donbass, but they are murdering random beauty salon workers who are just riding home on their bicycle. What do these people have to do with attacks on Donbass or the war in general? Does the military think that they are liberating Donbass by killing a random supermarket shelf stacker and his 4 year old son who lives 500km away? Are they liberating Donbass by firing a cruise missile into an apartment building and obliterating random people? Are they liberating Donbass by systematically destroying every single hospital in southeast Ukraine?

If we use Vietnam era counting in the US, those were not random people being blown up. The bike rider was a terrorist beauty salon worker, and the terrorist shelf stacker was supplying terrorists. The 4 year old terrorist? He was going to grow up to be an even bigger terrorist. They have to deterrorist the whole fucking city.
/s

[Zoranon]

Russians seem to be losing it a bit, yesterday Peskov admitted tragic loses.

And now we have Zakharova appearing drunk and stating that one of the reasons why Russia "had" to invade was that the Ukrainians didnt want to share borsch...

https://twitter.com/kmartynov/status...C5zeDE6_wpAAAA

[Makabreska]

Russians seem to be losing it a bit, yesterday Peskov admitted tragic loses.

And now we have Zakharova appearing drunk and stating that one of the reasons why Russia "had" to invade was that the Ukrainians didnt want to share borsch...

https://twitter.com/kmartynov/status...C5zeDE6_wpAAAA

Because at some point you just can't keep spewing this crap sober anymore.

[Yunru]

Russan commanders told soldiers that they had a deal with national guard, so they would surrender when russans would end up in city:


...what...

[Canpinter]

I don't think that empathy for the people of Donbas and Luhansk could make someone slaughter civilian villagers and children who are just trying to live their lives though. I could be on board with your theory of the Russian military was destroying the Ukrainian military because of empathy for Donbass, but they are murdering random beauty salon workers who are just riding home on their bicycle. What do these people have to do with attacks on Donbass or the war in general? Does the military think that they are liberating Donbass by killing a random supermarket shelf stacker and his 4 year old son who lives 500km away? Are they liberating Donbass by firing a cruise missile into an apartment building and obliterating random people? Are they liberating Donbass by systematically destroying every single hospital in southeast Ukraine?

I mean we have people not even 3 pages back talking about how some part of them wants to see the things happening in Ukraine happen to Russian city's just to give them a taste of their own medicine.

I'm not defending Russian actions in any way but it's very easy to get normal people to cheer on or even commit horrible atrocities if you convince them they are doing it to bad people.

[ABEEnr2]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JulianRoe...65048018132997

At this point, the Russians just don't care...

Also to the people saying that Russia does not have Tochka-U in service, here is footage that says otherwise.


https://mobile.twitter.com/newsburko...91257997385736