Patch 9.2 PTR - Build 41360: Sylvanas Cinematic

[Jujudrood]

I'm 95% sure Arthas is showing up by the end of the raid. Probably during the Anduin fight. Sylvannas and Uther are probably just there for the sole purpose of retrieving his soul from the Maw. Sylvannas had a short story written where she saw him down there after committing suicide, and before being rezzed by some valkyr. Uther also had a cinematic where he throws Arthas' soul into the Maw. It would frankly be weird NOT to have this resolved in 9.2. Some many Arthas-connected characters are present.

It would make sense.
From the start, I kinda figured Arthas was Sylvanas' "trump card", if you will.
It would be who gets pulled from out of nowhere to help turn the tide.
As far as Anduin goes, him being brainwashed but still struggling (like dropping the compass intentionally) seems like it's a slippery slope to him being LK 2.0, but Arthas doesn't feel, to me, like the guy to break him out of his trance.
I had always thought, along with Arthas,, the other trump card Sylvanas had was Varian, unless getting atomized doesn't land you in the Shadowlands?
Seems to me that, if we had a little story leading up where we not only save Arthas but also find and save Varian (assuming both are in the Maw), that would be enough for Anduin to "snap out of it", so to speak, and resume control of his mind.

It may sound a bit wild or cheesy, but it could be a good wrap up to both Arthas and Varian and end in a somewhat "happy ending" in the afterlife for both?

[Shockzalot]

Sylvanas was just a poorly written uninteresting mary sue character, I hope they kill her off at the end of the expansion and be done with it. Garrosh was an interesting villain, with progression and build up how they ultimately gave him his low key send off in shadow lands was a proper way to handle it. One could argue that even Vanessa VanCleef was drastically more interesting than Sylvanas.

[bagina]

No its not true. When you don't really understand the story and implications you don't really like it. Its like saying you like a book because it has a nice cover. We are not talking about attributes like a boring story, weak story, silly story, stupid story etc. Those still imply that the most fundamental rules of storytelling are there and functional and you have an actual story.
Having all agency in all choices and literally the entire development of such a central character over so many years stripped and rendered meaningless is something so stupid nobody should accept but then again people that say they like it don't understand it all. They looked at a cinematic and thought it looked pretty hence "i like it" with zero thought and consideration of what that kind of redemption setup pulled out of the ass means.
The major issue is not a redemption arc in itself. They could write a decent one if they had the least bit of care or talent. Its the stupid invalidation of literally everything before with that split soul bs. An incredibly lazy and stupid quick "work" instead of spending the time and effort to make it work in the story.

Bravo! Telling it like it is.

You just know nothing of the lore.

The only one here that knows nothing of the lore is you. Basic Forsaken lore right there.

The mos painfull thing for me that appearntly sylvanas wasnt sylvanas and she was never in control while they obviously made her look like a strong characrer.

To hear that.. basically ruined the character. Her whole arc was to get rid of scourge and of arthas... to hear she was never in control even when they broke lose from them??
Silverpine, battle for undercity.. 2004 til 2021 feels like we never knew or or something.

Damn this is realy bad.

Exactly. Not to mention her suicide. That sorrow and all the intense feels weren't actual Sylvanas. Her committing suicide was her "evil" side acting up.

[cateran100]

Because it explains why she turned into the psycho that she is now, post getting killed by Arthas. It's actually simple...

Good Ranger General >> Killed / Soul Stolen By Arthas >> Inexplicably Turned into a Sadistic Psycho Bitch >>
>> Got Soul Back >> Good Undead Ranger General is back.

The idea of giving a sadistic monster their humanity and compassion back as a form of punishment is what I find appealing here.

As for being shallow and saying we like it because it looked "pretty", I assure you i thought about the context of this cinematic much longer than you have.

Anyways, the character was not invalidated. You just know nothing of the lore.

Except they says otherwise..Not the whole soul were taken, just the "good" part. Hate and "evil" emotions left only which is BS as you can see her facial expression in a few previous videos, she is capable to feel positive emotions (before whe got back her soul parts)

For me it is kinda forced solution

[Vorkreist]

Because it explains why she turned into the psycho that she is now

She is a psycho now ? The cute blonde innocent psycho in goldshire and the cute innocent eyes waking up in the last shot ?
Where is the psycho? Besides the psycho developed all these years and magically discarded by blizzard with that cinematic.

You are proving my point sadly. You didn't understand anything from the cinematic.

[roboscorcher]

It would make sense.
From the start, I kinda figured Arthas was Sylvanas' "trump card", if you will.
It would be who gets pulled from out of nowhere to help turn the tide.
As far as Anduin goes, him being brainwashed but still struggling (like dropping the compass intentionally) seems like it's a slippery slope to him being LK 2.0, but Arthas doesn't feel, to me, like the guy to break him out of his trance.
I had always thought, along with Arthas,, the other trump card Sylvanas had was Varian, unless getting atomized doesn't land you in the Shadowlands?
Seems to me that, if we had a little story leading up where we not only save Arthas but also find and save Varian (assuming both are in the Maw), that would be enough for Anduin to "snap out of it", so to speak, and resume control of his mind.

It may sound a bit wild or cheesy, but it could be a good wrap up to both Arthas and Varian and end in a somewhat "happy ending" in the afterlife for both?

Yeah, and maybe a post-raid cutscene of the new Arbiter sending these characters to their proper covenant. Arthas and Sylv would likely need to atone in Revendreth. Varian would fit well in Maldraxxus or maybe Bastion. They could also have a cameo-shot where there's a queue of all the other souls that were wrongly sent to the maw, waiting for their proper sorting. I think that would be a nice ending.

[Pendraeg]

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/RoboSam

[Vorkreist]

Except they says otherwise..Not the whole soul were taken, just the "good" part. Hate and "evil" emotions left only which is BS as you can see her facial expression in a few previous videos, she is capable to feel positive emotions (before whe got back her soul parts)

For me it is kinda forced solution

The good part was taken so the part that years ago was mostly focused on saving and protecting her forsaken was evil apparently or the ton of moments of deep reflection on her pain and fate of her people. The very reasoning behind her actions until the very second that showed she believed she was doing the right thing.
If you look back there is a massive train of contradictions to that stupid cinematic.

[KSM899]

I really don't like Sylvanas, but this fits the story so well. I like the cinematic.

[Khaza-R]

Why are people so fixated on Sylvanas getting a redemption arc being a bad thing?

If they keep killing important characters for good people will leave this game faster.

I don't think most people would of been against it if it wasn't for the massive character shift they pulled in BfA.

Her character was often brutal and remorseless but at least was rational and pragmatic for her motives. She still showed some concern for things like her (Blood Elves / Forsaken). They really just pushed her too far over the edge for many fans in the past expansion so a considerable amount of people just don't care anymore or flat out want her removed from the story.

[roboscorcher]

I don't think most people would of been against it if it wasn't for the massive character shift they pulled in BfA.

Her character was often brutal and remorseless but at least was rational and pragmatic for her motives. She still showed some concern for things like her (Blood Elves / Forsaken). They really just pushed her too far over the edge for many fans in the past expansion so a considerable amount of people just don't care anymore or flat out want her removed from the story.

There is definitely a retconing of her character going on, which sucks. Her character shifted to 'generic evil' out of nowhere in BfA, and this cutscene doesn't explain that shift. You can say this is due to Agatha Christie's writing, but remember that Garrosh had a similar shift in Mists. There needs to be a reason for their morality-shifts, and giving them after the fact feels cheap.

I still liked this cutscene a lot, but yeah the retconning of Sylvannas's motives from WC3 to Legion ain't great. The soul split would work better if it had occurred at the end of Legion. Zovaal could have still been influencing Voljin to appoint Sylv as Warchief.

[Jujudrood]

Yeah, and maybe a post-raid cutscene of the new Arbiter sending these characters to their proper covenant. Arthas and Sylv would likely need to atone in Revendreth. Varian would fit well in Maldraxxus or maybe Bastion. They could also have a cameo-shot where there's a queue of all the other souls that were wrongly sent to the maw, waiting for their proper sorting. I think that would be a nice ending.

Yeah, I'd kinda like to see a nice, neat little bow wrapped around Shadowlands when it ends.
Cliff hangers have their place, and I feel like the Jailer won't be "killed" (probably an imprisonment akin to Sargeras), but the covenants need to be wrapped completely, the lost souls handled, and everything good so we have zero reason to ever return.

Would also be interesting to see Varian team up with Draka to lead Maldraxxus forward and get all the houses back in order.

[Sorrowseer]

Well, she wasn't exactly "the same person". I mean, look at other forsaken, they become much more cruel than they actually were in life when they are raised as undead (and we have seen that in some quests). The normal thing would be that that applies to Sylvanas as well. I think that as she wants to face the consequences and every character hates her, she won't get any redemption, which is a good thing story-wise. I cannot see anything bad from this cinematic, Blizzard did a pretty good job this time from my point of view.

Some also also commit suicide when they learn the monsters they were forced to become, trying to make out its two separate people is a cheap trick to avoid true punishment despite and in spite of the claims she will atone or take responsibility for her 'other selfs' actions, but as said, they broke me, I no longer care what happens, nothing could happen that would resolve it, years of a specific villain being a villain has been scrubbed.

I'm tired boss.

[Alduin]

So much wrong with that cinematic... but I like how they bluntly admit to not have enough lore nor imagination to give Sylvannas and Uther a distinguishable backstory.

But something must have slipped the sexual harassment department. Cause Sylvanas got some cleavage (even animated during the farm scene) and Uther touches an unconscious female. Cancellation incoming....or is the law suit over?

[Vomax]

How dare the IP holder use their IP to tell a story of their IP! The nerve!

Great point. Theyre only IP holders. This is not their creation. This was the work of Metzen, Afrasiabi, Chilton, Kaplan, and countless others who had real skin in the game and years of dedication.

Danuser is a fanboy who came in with crayons and drew all over the lich king because he thought it was cool

[rrayy]

They made a story that both people who love & hate sylvanas will both loathe.

Also what the hell was the point of all those shots of Sylvanas looking guilty? They purposely showed her being conflicted, just to be like "THIS SYLVANAS IS A MONSTER" WE HAVE GOOD SYLVANAS NOW lets mix them together... That's wild. It's like the Tuvix episode of Star Trek Voyager begging to be allowed to live only not.

There are plenty of people who like Sylvanas and the story.

The Jailer tore away the Ranger General Sylvanas and left a husk known as the Banshee Queen. Now that she was given back her soul by the Jailer, Ranger General Sylvanas now sees what Banshee Queen Sylvanas has done. As for the Bansee Queen, the conflict shows that she was not 100% pure evil. This is better than what I expected

- - - Updated - - -

Great point. Theyre only IP holders. This is not their creation. This was the work of Metzen, Afrasiabi, Chilton, Kaplan, and countless others who had real skin in the game and years of dedication.

Danuser is a fanboy who came in with crayons and drew all over the lich king because he thought it was cool

Everyone who has worked on the game has had real skin in the game and dedication to it. And those people you mention created the game with Blizzard resources. Basically this boils down to People who made the game I liked are good. Those that made a game I don't are evil and destroying it.

[Relapses]

Great point. Theyre only IP holders. This is not their creation. This was the work of Metzen, Afrasiabi, Chilton, Kaplan, and countless others who had real skin in the game and years of dedication.

Danuser is a fanboy who came in with crayons and drew all over the lich king because he thought it was cool

It's a fucking video game where you slay internet dragons for imaginary loot. You don't have to gate keep the lore, nobody reasonable gives a shit.

[Vomax]

I agree. The cinematic was cool and I can see how it makes sense. Her spirit was shattered and her good self is struggling to accept what her bad self did. I think people also forget how old Sylvanas is. Yes, she was a banshee and did bad things for many years since she was killed in WC3. But she is 1000s of years old, led the High Elf army, defended her home against the Scourge, and led the Forsaken (i.e. Scourge refugees). She spent 99.999% of her life doing good. Sure, her latest actions are atrocious though. I just like that we get to some of the old, good Sylvanas. I say all this as an Alliance-only player, and I hate the Horde. But I'm also realistic and know enough about the lore.

I agree this resolution of the story isn't perfect though. I'm not sure what would be.

The reason people are up in arms is because of the inconsistency of her character. Its extremely blatant that none of it was planned, and that is being changed on the spot.

Sylvannas was a ranger general that was turned into a banshee slave by Arthas!

She was freed when the lich king was under attack and gained free will. She hates Arthas and the lich king and wants revenge.

She forms the Forsaken, a group of out cast undead with FREE WILL, and she harbours that FREE WILL is key and the most important thing for her people.

She gets vengeance for arthas, but finds out a new lich king is there. Kills herself, gets scared by seeing the Maw and the Jailor, and decides she wants to live forever. Still free though.

Works for Garrosh to ensure she gets more bodies to make new forsaken since they cant reproduce. Still free though.

Goes to Helya to get a lantern to make more Valkyre. Still free.

Starts a war with the Alliance, burns a tree to release millions of souls into the Maw (even though she stated she wants to hold Teldrassil hostage, and the destruction of it is knee jerk.) Still free though

Fast forward to now... oh it was the Jailor all along. She was never free. No depth, just mind control. All that character growth and change and decisions? Jailor. Free will to her people? ploy by Jailor.

It just undermines YEARs of her development to just say "oh bad guy did it, she was just a puppet".

[Kyux]

The reason people are up in arms is because of the inconsistency of her character. Its extremely blatant that none of it was planned, and that is being changed on the spot.

Sylvannas was a ranger general that was turned into a banshee slave by Arthas!

[snipped recount of her life]

Starts a war with the Alliance, burns a tree to release millions of souls into the Maw (even though she stated she wants to hold Teldrassil hostage, and the destruction of it is knee jerk.) Still free though

Fast forward to now... oh it was the Jailor all along. She was never free. No depth, just mind control. All that character growth and change and decisions? Jailor. Free will to her people? ploy by Jailor.

It just undermines YEARs of her development to just say "oh bad guy did it, she was just a puppet".

Yes, I agree she's taken an odd turn and there's a lack of explanation. That's fair and a weak point in the story.

Where I disagree is that she's a puppet. She's a puppet in the sense she's been manipulated and lied to. But she still had free will, as shown by when she shot an arrow at the Jailer. Anduin, by contrast, has been dominated. He is forced to against his will. Sylvanas freely choice to act this way. I think the story is just weak in explaining to us why she sided with the Jailer.

[Snufflupagus]

Man, how is it that absolutely no one in the WoW fanbase understands what “genocide” means?

It’s probably the word I see getting thrown around the most, and there has not been a single genocide to my knowledge in WoW lore. Get a dictionary.