[Spoiler]So....giant red ball which broke arbiter is....

[MikeBogina]

Red death titan dies and then the Arbiter is broken by a big red soul.

Made sense that it was Argus, especially since the Dread Lords have been pulling the strings of the Legion the entire time towards Zovaal's goals and they were still putting on an act while we were attacking the Legion on Argus.

I'm just waiting for the ass pull when Zovaal loses and Sargeras gets free saying that he knew the whole time and it was all part of his plan, even losing earlier so he could be in this position later on to be even more powerful. Kinda like Diablo did.

[Khaza-R]

Red death titan dies and then the Arbiter is broken by a big red soul.

Made sense that it was Argus, especially since the Dread Lords have been pulling the strings of the Legion the entire time towards Zovaal's goals and they were still putting on an act while we were attacking the Legion on Argus.

I'm just waiting for the ass pull when Zovaal loses and Sargeras gets free saying that he knew the whole time and it was all part of his plan, even losing earlier so he could be in this position later on to be even more powerful. Kinda like Diablo did.

Its between him and Void Lords at this point.

But yeah, definitely one of them is going to pop up at the end and be like "hurr, hurr, we knew the Jailer's ridiculously convoluted scheme all along and we let it happen so [insert contrived plot device for 10.0] could come to fruition! noobz kek!"

[MikeBogina]

I thought it has been known since the expac came out that it was Argus that broke the Arbiter?

Around the same time they came out and said titan souls don't go to the shadowlands when they die. They weren't ignorant to the fact that people were speculating that the red soul was Argus, so they dont have the excuse to say "well this is different case" as it was clearly in response to it being argus.

[Darkimpact]

I'm sure they will claim a world soul has a "soul" and that is what went to the afterlife or something.

[Coniferous]

He was always planet-sized, i think.

In Warcraft 2 he wasn’t. I mean, they didn’t say he was normal sized but he was in a tomb on Azeroth… presumably that tomb wasn’t the size of the planet.

Making him planet sized didn’t immediately torpedo the lore, but it guaranteed things were gonna get silly. Giant planet sized dudes floating around in space with a huge sword is just fucking moronic.

Later he was big but not clearly planet sized other than that one picture… so they should have ignored it and gotten back to normal lore.

[Gorsameth]

In Warcraft 2 he wasn’t. I mean, they didn’t say he was normal sized but he was in a tomb on Azeroth… presumably that tomb wasn’t the size of the planet.

Making him planet sized didn’t immediately torpedo the lore, but it guaranteed things were gonna get silly. Giant planet sized dudes floating around in space with a huge sword is just fucking moronic.

Later he was big but not clearly planet sized other than that one picture… so they should have ignored it and gotten back to normal lore.

The Sargeras on Azeroth that fought Medievs mom was an avatar, I'm pretty sure it was never said to actually be Sargeras himself in the flesh.

[chorx]

This story is like watching Game of Thrones slowly turn into Avengers.

[Netherspark]

So if Argus was sent to the Shadowlands, where is he?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So if Argus was sent to the Shadowlands, where is he?

Well if it was that red soul that slammed into the Arbiter, effectively knocking her/it offline, would could assume the soul was trapped inside the mechanical husk.


Then during the end of Sanctum of Domination, the Jailer destroys the Arbiter in order to get the sigil, also destroy Argus' soul.


Damn man... Argus could not catch a break. Being twisted/tormented/tortured for like 1 million years... being forcefully raised by Sargeras and being able to breath as a living being for like 5 minutes only to be slain by us... then being used again for malevolent purposes and being trapped again only to be permanently destroyed.

[username993720]

In Warcraft 2 he wasn’t. I mean, they didn’t say he was normal sized but he was in a tomb on Azeroth… presumably that tomb wasn’t the size of the planet.

I think that's his avatar.

Making him planet sized didn’t immediately torpedo the lore, but it guaranteed things were gonna get silly. Giant planet sized dudes floating around in space with a huge sword is just fucking moronic.

Later he was big but not clearly planet sized other than that one picture… so they should have ignored it and gotten back to normal lore.

I agree. That is silly.

[cocomen2]

This story is like watching Game of Thrones slowly turn into Avengers.

It was "Avengers" from very start, once Thrall and Anduin showed up on the stage.

Thrall - Thor
Anduin - Captain America
Saurfang - Loki
Sylvanas - Winter Solider
Baine - Hawkeye
Jaina - Scarlet Witch

This how it felt to me

[Giannis-GR]

from reddit

First things first, since everything to have happened in warcraft is essentially confirmed to be the jailer let's see how galaxy brain this man had to be for this to go down.

Now that it's been basically confirmed that the arbiter going bye bye was argus no scoping her, what had to happen for that to occur?

Picture this, you are the jailer (terrible I know but bear with me) and you have been imprisoned by your college improv team. You have to convince one of the people that BANISHED YOU TO SUPER HELL to now be your friend. You know how prisoners casually convince the warden to start working for them, something like that.

Next you have to convince that warden to create the best spy industry ever to be created. Simple plan badabing badaboom done. Now use that spy system to convince beings of pure chaos and void to start spewing on to random planets. Then use them to corrupt a being of pure justice. All easy stuff.

This is where the jailers genius shines through. Have your army now working for the corrupted titan be strong enough to level entire galaxies except for this one random planet that has all the stuff for some reason. Now make this titan who doesn't know he's working for you just out of arms reach of his goal for millennium.

The fun part begins. Use the spy's to convince one of the titan guys allies to create a zombie guy with the express purpose of having a hat and killing/resurrecting one random elf that will become important later.

Make sure the humans win so the bad guys come back later then have hat guy die so elf lady predicability tries to re-unalive herself so she can see big bald man. Make a deal she can't refuse The Apprentice style and start controlling things in the background even more again.

Now this here is my favorite part. Make sure the Orc that has had few genocidal tendencies goes full sicko mode and must eventually stand trial in Pandaria. This is when you obviously travel time to another dimension so that a random other orc can come back to the main dimension and summon the titan you had on the back burner. Your super-mega-power-death-plan hinges on interdimensional time travel.

With this once dead orc back in the main timeline have the titan guy come to the planet he's just been chilling ignoring for some reason and have his army be good enough at killing but not too good to win. Now expect these random people on the planet to do a set of weird choices that has them teleport the main base of the badguy into their solar system. Since the base is right there they can fight the literal Titan of death and you now must hope they win.

Because they have obviously won the death titan breaks this random robot lady and the real game begins. All that other stuff was child's play. Make the elf lady sleeper agent all evil now and inevitably break that hat that you left on the planet for this EXACT moment.

Congratulations now you can pull a blonde boy into the DEATH ZONE and use him to get a shiney circle from one person and that's it, the mortals will give you the rest of them don't worry.

You've done it. You have all the Lego pieces you need to find where you left your super suit and remake/unmake/undo/redo/bless-you/gesundheit reality.

Was quite an easy plan when you think about it, took about a half hour to write---- plan I mean plan this was the plan from the beginning, duh.

Brilliantly written haha! Blizzard should hire you to write the next Chronicles. Because even though the way you wrote it is sarcastic, it summarises actually the current lore canon

You only forgot the last chapter of the story... after 4.87 billion years of the Jailer existing and manipulating the cosmic forces, orchestrating his plan and finally reaching the pinnacle of his power as the strongest being in the Cosmos (he was already more powerful than Sargeras, Titan+++, before reclaiming his Sigil, now he is Titan +++++++++++++++)..

that guy loses in 1 patch to a couple of 30-50 year old (canonically) "Adventurers" who were destined by the fate scribed by the First Ones to defeat him...

[Mic_128]

The Sargeras on Azeroth that fought Medievs mom was an avatar, I'm pretty sure it was never said to actually be Sargeras himself in the flesh.

Yup. And even then, it's apparent purpose was to try and possess her once defeated, which it ended up possessing Mediev from conception instead.

[TheRevenantHero]

And people think the next expansion(if we even get one) will be any good. Fat chance with Danuser still at the helm. Does that idiot even care about consistency anymore?

[shoc]

And people think the next expansion(if we even get one) will be any good. Fat chance with Danuser still at the helm. Does that idiot even care about consistency anymore?

I would rather have no expansion than one with Danuser at the helm. It can and will be worse.

[Kokolums]

No-one cares about WoW lore anymore. Its completely broken.

[TheFirstOnes]

Zovaal/Dreadlords couldn't use Argus because they couldn't get to the Sepulcher before now.

Not how it works.

- - - Updated - - -

No-one cares about WoW lore anymore. Its completely broken.

...Wc1 says hi.

- - - Updated - - -

Its between him and Void Lords at this point.

But yeah, definitely one of them is going to pop up at the end and be like "hurr, hurr, we knew the Jailer's ridiculously convoluted scheme all along and we let it happen so [insert contrived plot device for 10.0] could come to fruition! noobz kek!"

...That's already happened, kinda.

[Orby]

I'm tired of trying to pretend any of this Danuser-era lore is consistent

You and me both. You might as well just treat it as 'stuff happens, because it does, just deal with it' and I am here like 'okay, sure'

[shoc]

You and me both. You might as well just treat it as 'stuff happens, because it does, just deal with it' and I am here like 'okay, sure'

Sad because I never wanted to walk away from Warcraft. It's been a big part of my childhood.. basically since I was old enough to sit at a computer I've been playing Warcraft games. Since Warcraft 3 came out in 2002... I've been a diehard Warcraft fan for 75% of my life. 20 damn years of Warcraft. Shame to see it go down like this. Between the sex abuse scandal and Danuser molesting the canon beyond repair, telling people you're a Warcraft fan in 2021 is like telling people you're a Republican.

[Minikin]

I get this and sure there is always a name you can draw that will be shown as responsible for managing/giving direction to the team but what I'm getting at here is that such stories and narratives are in the work for multiple years and have evolved under the responsibility of many

Just like the latest Star Wars trilogy is not the mess of a couple of individuals but have been validated by numerous more during various steps where no-one saying "let's not do this" were heard

i dont want solutions! i want to be mad!

joking aside. I can sort of see what you are saying but I feel like many of these recent lore calls have been crazy weird. Like just imagine this for a second. Rewind back to MoP. Anduin confronts Garrosh by the Divine Bell. Now imagine if instead of just breaking some porcelain on him, Garrosh just cuts him down. No more Kingsmourne happening? Kind of crazy right that this crazy powerful dude who has manipulated the legion has hinged his plan on some wide eyed kid back in Azeroth.

It just feels so......stretched out. And you know, honestly id be fine in some cases with that. Heck i held on thru BfA! But what broke the camel's back is this agenda push. The whole "love conquers all. Revenge bad". This stopped being a story and became a sermon.