How to solve most looting issues in the game.

[Azadina]

Are you trying to start a fight with trolling? It is bannable here so stop. Nobody was "lying"; the concept is new and one word can not describe it; you accumulate points and if you have 3 on a boss you can pick 1 item in a a week at which point they are subtracted; you can call people liars all you want but I'd suggest you'd better understand the concept instead.

Then it's a good thing my argument against your system has nothing to do with trolling. Also, you know what is against the rules? Calling other posters arguments trolling if you don't like the argument. Looks to me you did just that, confirmed by how you insisted I "stop" (in the same context you spoke of bannable behaviour).

[epigramx]

To play devil's advocate for this system: there is a chance it will create some clunky situations at looting, however that's unclear before it's tested and theorized.

So for example:

Weeks 1 to 3:

Boss 1: 3 tokens
Boss 2: 3 tokens
Boss 3: 1 token

Week 4:
Boss 1: 4 tokens
Player gets 1 piece of loot from Boss 2 from the vault; Boss 2 now has 1 token (assuming they killed it)
Boss 3: 2 tokens

Week 5:
Boss 1: 5 tokens (they don't care because it has shit loot)
Boss 2: 2 tokens
Boss 3: 3 tokens (but they just got the token so they might have to wait for next week; it's unclear if that should happen or not)
They either loot something from Boss 1 or they have done 5mans and they get something from there which can be very important to them if they need trinkets etc.

I don't see a problem.

[Azadina]

They either loot something from Boss 1 or they have done 5mans and they get something from there

Ignoring the completely ridiculous 3 boss raid example of yours, where the system barely works, but not one boss size above; so the same system goes for 5 mans too?

On average 3.5 bosses x 8 dungeons, and 10 points for average 10 boss raid, good christ that's a lot of wasted points. You just keep digging your idea further into a ditch. Assuming full clear of raid and the 5 mans, after your mandatory 3 week grace period, person would have 30 points in the raid, and another 84 in 5 mans. 114 points, and you allow them to use 3 the next reset.

Forget what I said about 70% wasted points, you just made it over 92%.

[epigramx]

The problem of that person has already been answered and it's surprising they keep bringing it up. Those points are mainly indicators of progress of the player so nothing is "wasted"; it's like saying it was "wasted" that you killed all the bosses of a raid; good for you: you killed them and that's done and you don't have to use those boss points for this system.

I'll answer any other questions.

[cparle87]

Well whats the point of stat weights when the current content gear doesnt target them. Im pretty sure a large % would take better tuned stat weights and 15% increase in power then the current mess.

The "point" is that no piece of gear will be best for everyone. A piece of leather gear with haste/vers would be awesome for a bear while a crit heavy piece would be loved by a cat but hated by a bear.

The only way to "fix" stat weights would be to homogenize all the classes to have the same spells with the same abilities. Ferals value crit for instance cause it gets them more resources.

As for your Vault statement, anecdotes gonna anecdote.

[Rucati]

That's not an argument. That's a personal attack. Come with an argument otherwise you confirm my concept is good.

I wasn't making an argument or an attack, I was making a statement.

Literally everyone in this thread has already told you why your idea is garbage, if you still can't grasp why then me explaining it even more isn't going to change anything. You made your decision before you made this thread, and now you're just trying to argue with people.

[epigramx]

I wasn't making an argument

Then your opposition is without any value. I present a good solution with arguments and your only response is "it's wrong" (and I make your position a favor to not include that you also personally attack people).

For that statement to have any value you have to explain WHY it is wrong; you said nowhere WHY it is wrong; since you didn't: it is assumed very correct.

[NineSpine]

What is better about this than just the old valor point system or emblem system?

[epigramx]

What is better about this than just the old valor point system or emblem system?

In two big ways. One: those valor systems were very limited to certain filler/catch-up items for unlucky people.

Most importantly: this is solid proof of skill; you killed sylvanas 3 times for instance; you deserve loot from it.

[Aucald]

This thread needs to calm down and discuss this proposed system without throwing around insults or accusing other people of various things.

[NineSpine]

In two big ways. One: those valor systems were very limited to certain filler/catch-up items for unlucky people.

Most importantly: this is solid proof of skill; you killed sylvanas 3 times for instance; you deserve loot from it.

But you could just make it so those old systems allow you to buy the gear that drops from the bosses you’ve killed.

And nobody cares about skill. Anyone can buy a carry. That’s the reality. Nobody is impressed.

[shise]

People shouldn´t be allowed to have pre-selected pieces of gear. It is meant to be RNG, it is the core nature of any role game... same goes for an mmoRPg.

[epigramx]

But you could just make it so those old systems allow you to buy the gear that drops from the bosses you’ve killed.

And nobody cares about skill. Anyone can buy a carry. That’s the reality. Nobody is impressed.

It's not good to get the best Sylvanas gear (example) without killing Sylvanas itself. It's not only the concept that you killed those bosses; it's mainly that those bosses are the hardest bosses in the game; it reflects skill on the gear collected.

It's unequivocal that those things matter; people are drawn to competition and it's the predominant reason that WoW itself is successful (even if the competition is about "who has the most mounts'); it makes a good sport to be fair.

- - - Updated - - -

It is meant to be RNG, it is the core nature of any role game... same goes for an mmoRPg.

Two fallacies here. That's a mantra and not conclusive; you just stated "it has to be rng!" without saying why; it might be very wrong.

The most important fallacy though is that it's not even true; other MMORPGs have such 'tokens'; WoW itself had/have them.

[Azadina]

This thread needs to calm down and discuss this proposed system without throwing around insults or accusing other people of various things.

What's there to discuss, when the creator of the idea treats it as work of god; flawless and infallible. Despite having massive flaws he straight up denies would exist?

[NineSpine]

It's not good to get the best Sylvanas gear (example) without killing Sylvanas itself. It's not only the concept that you killed those bosses; it's mainly that those bosses are the hardest bosses in the game; it reflects skill on the gear collected.

It's unequivocal that those things matter; people are drawn to competition like flies it's the predominant reason that WoW itself is successful (even if the competition is about "who has the most mounts'); it makes a good sport to be fair.

I can go into the game right now, with blizzards absolute permission, buy a bunch of wow tokens, sell them, and buy a sylvanas carry.

This fantasy you have erected where kills are proof of skill, it isn’t real. I understand why you’d like it to be real, but it simply isn’t.

And I specifically said “from the bosses you’ve killed”. So again, why is this over complicated system better than the much simpler solutions we’ve had before, just tweaked slightly?

[Aucald]

What's there to discuss, when the creator of the idea treats it as work of god; flawless and infallible. Despite having massive flaws he straight up denies would exist?

If you feel there's nothing else to discuss, then I recommend not discussing it anymore and leaving the thread. If many people feel the same then the thread will naturally fall off the first page and get archived due to a lack of continuous feedback.

[epigramx]

I can go into the game right now, with blizzards absolute permission, buy a bunch of wow tokens, sell them, and buy a sylvanas carry.

This fantasy you have erected where kills are proof of skill, it isn’t real. I understand why you’d like it to be real, but it simply isn’t.

That argument is a basic fallacy that keeps coming up in forums. You effectively say: "if there is some shit here then ALL can be shit and nothing will change".

No; being imperfect is not an excuse to become worse; people love the competition and the race to raid and being (more)fair at that 'sport' is always good.

[NineSpine]

That argument is a basic fallacy that keeps coming up in forums. You effectively say: "if there is some shit here then ALL can be shit and nothing will change".

No; being imperfect is not an excuse to become worse; people love the competition and the race to raid and being (more)fair at that 'sport' is always good.

If someone could pay the Olympic committee for medals, nobody would take the Olympics seriously. So your insistence that we need to take raid kills seriously when you can just buy them with cash is silly on its face.

Nobody cares. Nobody is impressed. It doesn’t matter. We shouldn’t build systems around silly fantasies.

And once again, I said “from the bosses you’ve killed” so this diatribe is a waste of time.

[epigramx]

“from the bosses you’ve killed”. So again, why is this over complicated system

Two points on that. If you mean to get 'token' drops from the boss that are RNG based then it's the current system in disguise; if you meant: to get GUARANTEED a token that after 3 drops becomes a 'boss token' then it's practically the OP system but: it might have the problem of a lot of spam in the players' bags because they would only be able to use 1 per week so something more basic that doesn't spam their bags (or even their currency inventory) seems better (but those are practical issues and not big disagreements).

Two: it's not complicated at all; you just click the 'vault' page; navigate to raid->boss the end.

[Ange]

»How to solve most looting issues in the game.

Lets be real for a second, in each loot system we had in the past and now, just playing the game would allready bring your character close to maximum possible ilvl and usually very close to maxium power levels, outside of stupid-balance-with-secondary-stats/stupid-trinket-designs times.

This kind of topics allways seem like its from the perspective of a seasonal raider that wants to gear ASAP and gives a big F about 99% of the regular players.

I rather like to play for 8-10 weeks each tier to be done with gearing, instead of having gearing done in 2 weeks and to read in forums there is nothing to do in this game.