Seriously - Are People Actually Fine with SL's Vault System?

[jazen]

What's this vault you speak of ?

Better yet . .what's Mythic+ ?

Exactly....as if the entire game revolves around a small piece of it. I forget to 'loot' it more often than not, when I happen to qualify for it.

[Thes]

It's terrible because at the start of a patch you get to choose "Do you want to PvP or PvE", if you pick a 252 M+ item for example you miss out on a pvp piece, that's fine now though when there is no conquest cap but honestly blizzard are really out of touch when it comes to the weekly chest aswell as gearing overall (:

You don't really have a choice because of different scaling. If you PvP you take the PvP piece almost everytime.

Which sucks if you also raid as people will question your choices. But a boss taking a few seconds longer vs. not scoring a kill in competitive match is too big to pass up on.

[melzas]

You don't really have a choice because of different scaling. If you PvP you take the PvP piece almost everytime.

The big problem however is when you want to do both PvE and PvP, and you have to choose between optimal reward from the vault for either of these content.

It sucks when I have to chose between 246/259pvp piece and 252 m+ piece. If I only did one type of content, it's cool, but if I want to do both m+ and arena I will have to pick subpar reward for one of these activities which is rather lame. Doing different types of content should be more rewarding in MMORPG, not hindering...

[Eazy]

Why? Why does it matter to you? You're also getting that same gear?
Its a natural way of nerfing content without really letting the player know.

I didn't say that it does matter to me. Just saying that's it's kinda unfair that the BIS gear for Raiding is dropping from M+, and it's heavy RNG based(only dropping from vault).

Nothing more, nothing less.

You were glossing over the fact that ilvl 259 is not attainable through M+ for ANY slots and pointing out that a few M+ trinkets happen to be BiS for certain specs.

Yes.

And you also have right. BIS items for M+ are also dropping from the Raiding.

[Osmeric]

I quit SL before I even got to the vault system, so it's no great problem for me.

[Dzonathan]

And SL has token weapons and better catch up, your point?

Not deterministic enough.

[tomten]

I didn't say that it does matter to me. Just saying that's it's kinda unfair that the BIS gear for Raiding is dropping from M+, and it's heavy RNG based(only dropping from vault).

Nothing more, nothing less.

That goes both ways. There's BIS gear only dropping in the raid for m+? Such as aegis/ows trinkets(i only know my class but im sure there's tons of other examples), dom sockets etc.
And i would argue its far harder to get the raiding gear so its more unfair for people only doing m+?
Raiders will also gear far far faster than any m+ player will do, as they can get multiple raid drops per week and later on they can also get items traded to them on top of having guaranteed vault piece. And if you're a CE raider, you'll get higher item level, above what any "vault" chaser can do.

I really don't think you thought this one through enough. Because if anything, it's unfair in the opposite way you think it is
And really, i personally don't think its unfair to anyone, i like the current system. The only change or rather QOL improvement?
Make it possible to select say 4x dungeons to target loot and make it possible to target loot from a specific wing from the raid.
That would solve a lot of the headache of trying to well, target specific loot, such as trinkets, shield etc.

[Eazy]

That goes both ways. There's BIS gear only dropping in the raid for m+? Such as aegis/ows trinkets(i only know my class but im sure there's tons of other examples), dom sockets etc.
And i would argue its far harder to get the raiding gear so its more unfair for people only doing m+?.

Not judging which one is "more or less fair", it's just unfair.

Raiders will also gear far far faster than any m+ player will do, as they can get multiple raid drops per week and later on they can also get items traded to them on top of having guaranteed vault piece. And if you're a CE raider, you'll get higher item level, above what any "vault" chaser can do.

I agree.

I really don't think you thought this one through enough. Because if anything, it's unfair in the opposite way you think it is

Not really, as you said - it's problem for both groups of players.

Make it possible to select say 4x dungeons to target loot and make it possible to target loot from a specific wing from the raid.
That would solve a lot of the headache of trying to well, target specific loot, such as trinkets, shield etc.

Would be cool actually. But I guess people would get their gear too fast and call it a day.

[tomten]

Would be cool actually. But I guess people would get their gear too fast and call it a day.

They could limit it so only the last vault slot gets that option.
So you would have to do a full clear and/or 10 m+ dungeons and once done that, you can get an option to select (for only last slot) which dungeons/wing you want to target.
Would still be stupid RNG because its still about 4 dungeons * 4 bosses * 4 pieces per boss, so about 1 in 64 chance instead off 1 in 128 chance.
So doubt it would be fast, it would just be easier and less frustration.
They could even go for 1-2 dungeons target and it could still take months lol...

Not judging which one is "more or less fair", it's just unfair.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don't think the system is perfect, i just dont think its unfair to either side ::P

[PaladinBash]

It's better than Legion's, yeah.

Is it good? Lol no it's terrible. Too many keys for a normal player to bother with. I don't know anyone who does more than a few keys weekly after a month into a tier. Nobody but sweaters do more than that and sweaters do gorillions of them because they sell them to boosted rats.

The problem is that you almost always get absolute dogshit from it. You have no way to guarantee you don't. You have no choice. You get no useful currency to pick something out eventually. You just go to every week and either get fucked or get lucky with nothing in between. Some random nobody will get a 252 bis piece with a socket his first week off one key he didn't even time. You can grind 50 keys and get something from your legendary slot. It's fucking retarded and the only people okay with it are those that get lucky or just routinely grind so many keys for so long they get it and insist "my effort is rewarded" as if being mazed is an achievement.

The most obvious solution is just to have keys drop the same ilvl gear as the vault and in greater quantity. Just let people spam keys for gear if they want so they don't have to deal with this stupid bullshit system. "But then nobody will do keys after they get their gear" you cry. Good. Fuck keys and fuck the maze.

[zysis]

I pug 11 toons a week and to be honest I'm one of likely many that are just tired of World of Warcraft. If a better game comes along I'll play it and while I've tried many over he years, few games hold he playerbase that wow does while being somewhat decent in holding my attention. FFXI was ugh and still is. Don't get me started on the cash grab that was New World and while I truly do love Atlas, it was a botched release and thus many people just don't play it... Also, Asian Megas are a problem.

To the topic at hand though; the problem with M+ is the sheer number of runs required to get decent rewards and the fact they are random makes it all too time-consuming. Which is what Blizzard wants... You can trade gear in Raids but in M+ you are on your own and there's been MANY times where I've gotten the same slot items and the same items weeks in a row. I think my hunter had legs for 7 weeks running. To push past a single choice you are forced to do 4 or 10 runs and it becomes tiresome 10 weeks in. The more geared your character, the more runs you have to do in order to get choices, all of which are purely RNG. Long terms is an extremely punishing system and offers very slow and incremental rewards which does nothing but stifle interest in the game itself unless you subject yourself to raiding.

With raiding, as many in my shoes would agree; after 17 years the last thing I need is to have a timeslot filled with a video game when my work and lifestyle demands that I have little free time and never on a schedule. The M+ system could work if you acquired tokens toward gear and even if saving up said tokens for the higher item levels was needed, it would be a far more complete and relevant system to not only the average wow gamer (over 30 years old) but also to people such as myself who simply cannot commit to a structured raiding team. The very nature of the system itself is what puts me off the game, not only because I can see through the immature and archaic systems required for gearing up, but the very convoluted process you are forced to adhere to in order to remain geared for current content.

-I'd prefer a base level squish for all the M+ content and rewards for those that complete it such as what we saw in Pandaria. It allowed alts to do Gold modes even if not geared because all content was the same ilvl. It required skill over gear and thus allowed a far more competitive environment for Challenge modes while offering itself as very fun and immersive content that all could enjoy. A mixture of both item level capping and token rewards would be ideal, but I doubt Blizzard bean counters would agree on this. The game is more about money than it ever was, it's less and less about making fun, immersive content for all to enjoy.

[tomten]

The most obvious solution is just to have keys drop the same ilvl gear as the vault and in greater quantity. Just let people spam keys for gear if they want so they don't have to deal with this stupid bullshit system. "But then nobody will do keys after they get their gear" you cry. Good. Fuck keys and fuck the maze.

The issue is making it mandatory while invalidating both normal and heroic raiding and to some extent even mythic raiding.
So that's not a solution and thank god for that.... At least now its an optional thing... They just need to make the vault less RNG. That's it.

[Huntermyth]

what i would change ? more diversity in terms of rewards. such as i should have the option of forfeiting some of the rewards for a mount ? or a battle pet ? or something entirely different ? gold maybe ? bundles come to mind as well. 3rd tier of the weekly should contain something extra, maybe those said things above ?

ideas are like assholes you know, everyone has it.

[Draknalor186]

There is more to the game than fucking loot-

I don't think so.

The game has always been about getting more gear, Not much else to it.

Why would I bother with game systems I clearly hate and have no interest in ?

To increase your characters power.

[Zantera]

The one thing that would improve the Vault for me would be some form of bad luck protection. If I take my own main character as an example, I've been after a 252 belt all this tier and I haven't gotten it from raid or my weekly vault despite making sure I do at least one key every week (first few months I was doing 4 keys every week but had to cut down when I got a job). Yeah if your rewards are crap you can pick the coins which you can use to get currency but this just feels a bit underwhelming. How about being able to use those coins on buying a slot you need instead? Lets say 2 or 3 weeks worth of not getting any item you want amounts to enough coins to buy an item in that slot you need.

Because I do agree that the Vault is a massive improvement over the weekly chest, however we're getting close to 9.2 and despite putting in a decent amount of effort I still have a 239 belt because luck just hasn't been on my side at all. And I don't think running 10 keys weekly and 10 mythic bosses weekly should feel needed to eventually get all the stuff you want. It's good that it exists so that you can push early in the tier for faster gearing, but I feel like this many months into the tier if you have done keys every week it does feel a bit sad to still chase 1 slot.