M+ is very easily pugable,from low to high level. I just recently came back,jumped on low key trains to get out of boosted greens, then started pushing my own key for progress and higher gear level. In a month of casual play (casual does not equal bad,you people need to learn the terms) i was able to get ksm. While pugging in off hours of the night.
Stop pretending like anything is stopping you besides yourself. And you are a healer on top of that, for whom it is poss easy to get into groups.
@OP the timer does not exist in m+ for a group geared and skilled for it. Its only there to punish failure like deaths and overpulls. You can literally pull 1 mob pack at a time and finish the dungeon on time. Ya'll are out here acting like you have to do giant pulls to time things, seems like youve never been in an actual high key.
True, but it's less convenient than being able to drop it at the dungeon. They could even drop the key initially but then give you a key of the previous level upon completion after the timer to encourage people to finish M+ runs and allow easy dropping at the dungeon while circumventing the concerns about constant dungeon resets if a pull goes bad.
First time I quit playing was in Cata. Last time I quit was in Legion. I've been subbed continuously from 7.3.5 onward. I started running Mythic+ in BfA. And we regularly drop keys by starting the dungeon, running out, and resetting. If they stopped downgrading a key when you start a dungeon, which is what we were talking about, I'd want a way to drop the key at the dungeon entrance, as there is now, instead of requiring people to go all the way back to Oribos (or the next expansion capitol), which would be required if they removed keys dropping in value during the run and didn't replace it with something else.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
Nah, they should rework fortified and tyrannical tho.
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They need to do something about Tyrannical. With Fort, the likelihood of wiping to trash is much higher and it's generally way more stressful on the tank but you can mostly brute force the bosses and finish the key. With Tyr, you end up bricking a key because one or two players are simply incapable of performing a boss mechanic. (See: Literally any fucking boss in DoS) You can spend time explaining it to these people and they'll just keep taking it to the chin. It's actually getting worse now that people have 4-sets and everything because it's even easier to brute force a Fort key... making the average player even more resilient against learning encounters. It's very frustrating to have a 40+ minute key bricked because a single player in your group is functionally incapable of dodging or performing a required mechanic.
Sanguine Depths is another that has turned into a shit show with 4 pieces, in my experience. Had an 18 and then a 16 bricked with pugs this week. Both times, dps wouldn't move out with castigate at all, and killed the other dps and then raged at healer for not healing them through it, when "other healers had no problems" which I find fairly doubtful or just a simple "shit healer" and /leave group.
Because they are choosing not to do it? This isn't about content either because you are talking about gear progression which is item levels.
Path of the Titans was nothing like you suggest it could have been. It was simply more talents similar to what Artifact weapons were in Legion. The developers are not elitist. They don't develop just for one group of people. Just because they don't give super casuals like yourself access to Mythic Raid gear doesn't mean then are ignoring you.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it does not exist. There is gameplay outside of M+ and "premade" raiders. The amusing part of your complaints is that the game has more progression for non-raiders and non-M+ then ever before. And yet somehow you ignore all of that because anything but the best is "welfare". Then you sling insults at the developers.
It also ignores how the players you want catered to don't choose to do content that will get them progression you claim they want. Weird, right? You want the progression of others simply because you can't get it without doing that content. Instead of being content with the progression of your content.
Instead of engaging in that higher content you rage about developers not knowing basic RPG principles, or being elitists, or whatever else you claim. All because you won't choose to do the content that exists that will reward you with what you want.
Last edited by rhorle; 2022-04-14 at 11:53 PM.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
They call them welfare because of the joke from Blizzcon that the playerbase echoed at the time. You could get epics from Arena easier then from raids thus they were "welfare". You don't need to link to a research paper on the term. Lol. The game has a real progression system for all kind of players but for some of those players it stops at a lower item level then the rest.
There is no amount of game design that can give an equal progression for people that only play 2 to 3 times a month. So right off the bat you ignore the earlier group you were saying should have access to M+, right? Why exclude now that you've moved the goal posts? WoW was never a broad audience game even though it attracted one. It was designed to be a more casual version of Everquest at the time. Since Vanilla the game has given more things for every group of player to achieve. But that isn't good enough for you unless every group has equal progress rather then different limits of progression.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
If there was a time-damage dealt ratio instead, there would not be a perverse incentive to find the "easiest" pulls. Someone could pull the whole dungeon and kill it faster per hp point of what they killed, for example.
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You'd see people unsub if raids stopped giving gear. They're subbed to raid.
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Correct, almost no one pushes past 15s. Attempting a 17 puts you in the top 1%.
There's also all the data from when Bliz upped it from 10 to 15 and all the players who only ever did 10s starting doing 15s.
Despite your fee fees of how much you love M+, the data proves it is a chore that is almost universally disliked.
Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.
That's far from evident here.
The only thing the data you cite shows is that people are unlikely to do more challenging content if it doesn't come with an increase in rewards, too. That doesn't mean they "dislike" the parts where that equation still holds true; it only means that they dislike it when the equation breaks down.
There's no reason to do higher than m+15 other than challenge - and so most people don't do it. Whether or not that means they hate doing M+15s and lower where they DO get better rewards is a different question, and requires different data to investigate.
Ah yes, a sample size of...wait, what was it
oh yes, 762k unique players timing 15s and above is clearly "disliked".
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...rboards-strict
Because timing 15s is definitely *not* pushing past that right? Mind you, there's no sorting on raider.io to even check how many people are doing 17s, so it's pretty weird to claim you know that somehow, nor did Blizzard give data about how many people moved from doing 10s to 15s. So you're creating data that doesn't exist anyway.
You're making a nonsensical argument of "Gear is the only motivation to do it" when gear and mounts are the motivation behind nearly all of WoW's endgame content. You're complaining that the endgame is the endgame basically, which is absolutely silly. If you hate M+, don't do it. Don't demand its changed to suit your needs when its been one of the most popular features since it was added to the game.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
/cast Feign Death
What's castigate?
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For those who can't read...
15s
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...MythicLevel=15
Sample size: 701,163 - Raider io
15s and up
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...MythicLevel=99
Sample size: 762,237 - Raider io
762,237
- 701,163
-----------
61,074
== 8%
So less than 10% of people who can even time a 15 bother ever doing higher than a 15.
All mythic levels
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...MythicLevel=99
Sample size: 1,812,072
61,074 == 3.3%
Less than 4% of people who run any key ever do higher than a 15.
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For those like this guy who quit a while ago, there are rewards for each individual 20, as well as averaging all 20s (3k score).
Most people (96.7%) don't bother, because they're only doing any keys for the weekly chest to boost their raid performance.
Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.
What’s funny is this is exactly what every key would be if Blizzard ever removed the timer from mythic+ and just retuned it to make non-completion the failure not non-timing.
Wall bosses with no hope to kill for many players.
And yet it gets championed like it would be easier and more accessible without the stress of a timer.
First, I want to toss out an old complaint about the "X is easy" crowd. Easy and difficult are subjective terms, and what you may find easy, others may find difficult. I agree that in general, there are some things we can say are objectively easy, like counting to 5, but even then, there are some people who might have difficulty counting anything, for various reasons.
Second, one of the arguments raised in favor of timed content is that, in the absence of a countdown, players would game the system by waiting on long cooldowns before every pack, trivializing the content and slowing the game down. To that I say...have you met WoW players? They won't slow down if their life depended on it. Long before we had any sort of serious timed content, the "gogogo" crowd was already in full throat, and timer or no timer, no one is waiting out cooldowns for trash, it is just not happening. While I don't say it is impossible, I just don't see a lot of people doing that. It wasn't done in BC or Wrath, and I highly doubt that would change now.
Third, and lastly, there is a practical real world benefit to not having timed content that lasts longer than 10-15 minutes; the ability to get up do something else for a few seconds. Now there is a fair argument there; if someone wants to do a key, and a high one at that, then maybe plan on being tied up for 30-45 minutes, which isn't really a long time in the grand scheme of things. However, what if more people did keys simply because they knew that, if they had to afk bio or the dog wet the rug or the kid threw up, they could take 5 minutes to take care of that. But this would really just be QoL...I mean, the system does seem to be working well, but perhaps more engagement would be a good thing. I think there might be room for both in the game, and the elitist attitude of "get good/casuals don't need gear/my experience>yours" doesn't make the game more fun. In my opinion.
"Can't you see this is the last act of a desperate man?"
"We don't care if it's the first act of Henry the Fifth, we're leaving!"