removing the timer might as well remove it
Would make the game way less fun for me and 7/8 of the people I do m+ with. We'd all unsub if they removed the timer, because it's part of the fun.M+ should not have a timer, period. If you complete dungeon, key goes up as simple as that.
They can do that with the timer still in place though. There's literally nothing stopping them aside from them not wanting to do that.That opens up possibilities to make more complex, non linear much better dungeons with actual mechanics not just braindead meatgrinders where bosses are meh, entire focus goes on trash and any sign of failure is immediate group disband.
I've done high keys for 2 expansions at this point, I'm playing with people who've done it for 3. They disagree with you as well.As someone who played high keys for ~1.5 expansions on 2 classes - yes. 11/10.
They just disagree with you on what "better" is. That's all.But people with severe lack of critical thinking can't imagine how to possibly make it better since it requires leaving comfort zone.
Soft/hard enrages on bosses are absolutely fine design, arbitrary timer on entire dungeon that decides if your key is dead or not - isn't. There is a fundamental difference between these two things. Especially because you can't try again if you fail - another big problem.
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You will unsub sooner or later the moment you realize doing the same dungeons with constricted design is actually boring and repetitive. Took me 3-4 years.
There is plenty of things stoping them from doing that, money is one thing, because to actually design complex and interesting dungeon takes more time/money, and without timer, shallow design would be exposed rather quickly.
That only means you have higher tolerance to repetitiveness. All my friends quit. Even pugs i gathered to special friend list tab over last expansion quit.
Because there is not a single thing that timer makes better, there is no upside of having it, only downsides, with biggest of them = templated dungeons.
And that shows with a difference of how early dungeons were made vs recent 3 expansions.
The quality of the gear rewarded reflects nothing back on the quality of the content. What currently exists is very hollow. Almost nothing of importance happens in the world, it just simply exists to give people purples. And the few quest chains that exist, have next to no detail within them. What you see is what you get. Anything worth explaining that wasn't, is left for the player to question until a later patch, where you have to read in between the lines to put together what happened. That method is fine, used sparingly. However, this is the MAIN way Blizzard writes their stories. Even worse, if it doesn't get explained in a patch, it's revealed in a book and sold at a premium.
Realistically keys being valuable isn't great design either, but you still don't need to take the timer away. I think most people whether you're pushing keys to their absolute limit or those that don't like timers would rather it be something different. A system where you can just do whatever key you want, whenever you want would remove the need for keys and if you aren't able to do a key in it's allotted time, does it really matter?
To me the essence of people holding individual keys is probably the only sticking point I agree with. Having them being treated as a currency is probably the only flaw I see with them. Allowing people to do a 15 as many times as they want doesn't really hurt the game, and if you aren't geared enough to do the key in the allotted time, is it really that bad?
If a system existed allowing us to do whatever/whenever we wanted I think most people would prefer that. Whether that means building up key levels through an interface system so that you can't jump into a 25 immediately. For key pushers it gets rid of the headache of trying to find a key, and for those who potentially get excluded or have to shop around for particular keys.. well you can just work on whatever key you want.. or farm whatever key you want.
Last edited by Tojara; 2022-04-20 at 12:26 AM.
No, because I enjoy that. Same reason I replay games, or rewatch tv / movies. It's nice
it is with the timer too, hence you complaining about it.There is plenty of things stoping them from doing that, money is one thing, because to actually design complex and interesting dungeon takes more time/money, and without timer, shallow design would be exposed rather quickly.
I mean, dungeons became super linear in like.. TBC and Wrath. And most of them were linear in classic too. The only thing that changed is that people now actually have a reason to do dungeons, so they put in more effort.That only means you have higher tolerance to repetitiveness. All my friends quit. Even pugs i gathered to special friend list tab over last expansion quit.
Because there is not a single thing that timer makes better, there is no upside of having it, only downsides, with biggest of them = templated dungeons.
And that shows with a difference of how early dungeons were made vs recent 3 expansions.
Take a look at the dungeons in wrath and tell me, honestly, that they're materially different than the ones we have now.
Last edited by Temp name; 2022-04-19 at 06:28 PM.
BTW did they said some thing about World Revamp ??
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
I m glad y'all self-proclamed "casuals" are not in charge of the game it would be so easily boring...
What next once there is no lockout and no timer ? "Blizzard should cap key level at 5 so I dont feel bad some people are doing 15"
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
"Nothing of importance happens in open world" followed by "ignore the quest chains". Then "they don't explain anything" followed by "they'll do it later either ingame or in a book". You're contradicting yourself all over here. Add to the fact that it's not necessarily a bad thing for plot threads to be left open to be explored later. We met the kvaldir back in Wrath and didn't find anything more about them until Legion, for instance.
The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.
No, actually I'm not. You're taking my words and applying what you think I'm saying and replacing what I'm actually saying. I also never said ignore quest chains, I said they lack detail in most cases. While I'm happy with what we got in Shadowlands, it is my opinion that Blizzard doesn't put enough details in to the game. We almost never see things happen in real time. We almost always get filled in by a memory/flashback explaining whatever conclusion we're thrusted upon. We don't actually get to see it happen. It seems as though Blizzard's story telling tends to be in reverse. We start at the conclusion, and work our way back. There's nothing wrong with that though, when done sparingly. There are a few things we've seen over the years.. Like Bolvar, for example. We saw how he died, how he managed to live, how he became the lich king, and so on. That's an example of a good (subjective opinion) storyline where we got to witness/experience the events play out. However, it's far more often that Blizzard puts stories such as these in a book, or as you say, explained much much later. There are plenty of things that have happened throughout the games history, and I for one don't like the idea of getting attached to a particular story line with some interesting mysteries left waiting to be solved, only for Blizzard to finally get around to doing it years later. Using half-assed cutscenes and flashbacks to fill in a story juuuuuuuuuuuuust enough for things to make sense.
So to boil down that huge paragraph you claim it's bad that we find a conclusion and work back, because you say it's bad. Followed by saying putting the story in books is bad, because you say it's bad. Then leaving open ended story threads to explore later is bad, because you say it's bad.
The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.
What about this:
Epic dungeons (+15 difficulty)
No timer
Queueable
Same rewards as +15 level
M+ same as now
The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.
I found difficult dungeons more enjoyable when the difficulty came from balance (early Cataclysm) instead of time (Mythic+).