World of Warcraft 10.0 Expansion Reveal

[dope_danny]

Why is Tyr related to the dragons?

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tyr

I mean, I guess you've never played WoW before?

"Thyr" not tyr. Like Venthyr and so on. Suffix means a thing added to the end of a word. The more you know.

[Ragu4]

I'm just not sure why they would take inspiration from GW2 for the new flight mechanic. Unless I am horribly mis-remembering, the flight mechanics for the...gryphons?...had a stamina and gravity mechanic.

[Alcsaar]

Making up claims to fit your narrative does not make them fact. I gave you examples of why metrics have been created. Just counting subs does not account for play style and is not fluid at all. They are not convoluted either. Pretty straight forward.

Whats straight forward is looking at the number of people willing to pay a monthly cost to play the game. For the past many years, less and less people are willing to pay for this game and they're paying for it for a shorter duration of time. THAT is a simple metric of how well a game is doing. All this bullshit about how the few remaining subs might have increased the average playtime metric by 30% or whatever number is absolutely meaningless, especially since a large reasoning for that playtime increase is because all the people who don't like the game have left.

If your game has 5 million subscribers and the monthly average playtime of them is say 25 hours, that is a MUCH healthier game than one which has 1 million subscribers with a monthly average playtime of 45 hours, because more often than not the remaining 1 million are the real addicted ones who don't care how good or bad the game is.

[Ragu4]

Making up claims to fit your narrative does not make them fact. I gave you examples of why metrics have been created. Just counting subs does not account for play style and is not fluid at all. They are not convoluted either. Pretty straight forward.

He's right regarding the recalculated inflation measurements.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate...flation-charts

They adjusted it in 1990 in order to not make it seem as bad.

Here's a 2016 article discussing similar concepts as well.

https://www.businessinsider.com/if-p...economy-2016-8

[Beefhammer]

well alot of people are complaining for good reason but I'll try and respond to your points here;

1 -just because there isn't a big baddie there still needs to be conflict for adventure and what not. That reveal cinematic didn't really help there and neither did the presentation
2 - yeah This one I agree with u on. zones are zones you can't really say good or bad till end product and even then all zones pretty much start feeling the same after awhile in a game this old
3 - There are little to no new features. A new class thats exclusive to a new race(that is exclusive to that one class) and system revamp again.....I mean they even use the ui revamp as a key feature that says alot about the lack of features
4 - dragonriding doesn't really change the fact that its still just flying. Honestly from what they showed the new mounts and old ones both function bascially the same especially when used for its intended purpose of just traveling.

It all kinda feels like these new devs dont know what made this game such a hit. Its like watching old people try and figure out whats new and trendy kinda sad really

I'll guarantee you'll find out about the threats as you play. Nothing wrong with some mystery.

[rrayy]

In the scale of the playerbase, even 10,000 people would equal large and still be a minority of the overall tally. In re to the ever-so-tired "resources" argument, that has been debunked in the forums a number of times. There is inevitable overlap of the talent pool at the company but no real explorable content would be sacrificed. They could *gasp* actually hire some people in. Yeah, novel concept. If they don't, there is available downtime to be had without forcing the people who would be involved having to work megahours. You ask what would the rest of the people who don't want to engage in that optional content do? PvP, M+, raiding, pet battles, xmog farming, apparently customizing your new dragon mount, achievement hunting, farming, playing the AH, alts - the variety is there if you look for it. Just because something new is added in doesn't automatically mean something has to be removed.

Nothing has been debunked. People just think it is completely easy to create everything and that reusing a ton of stuff automatically means it will go faster to make. They do not tak into account how to ingtegrate it all into a working system, and create everything and all the customization you want. YOu saw how much resources it took for Garrisons and how conent defnicent it was and that havd very little customization. Now look at what customization is needed to satisfy this vocal minority? Only the naive would think no content would be sacrificed to create it. Also, none of what you list will keep ones attention for long. What NEW content is there to do? That dragon mount? Wouldn't exist. Also, they have a budget to hit it isn't as easy as simply hiring more people.

Ultimately though anything and everything that draws players into the game is a good thing. The last thing the game needs is to ignore an obvious avenue of engagement. Going out and adventuring each expansion is implicit. New zones or reworked zones drop and people go look at them. New instances beckon heroes to challenge themselves. That "exploration" eventually ends and you return to the usual grind. You will never get constantly releasing content. It is a pipe dream with the current tech built into the game.

The game does just fine without it and gets people out in the world. Player housing is nothing more than a lobby game and even the usual grind is better than playing house by myself in an instance. WoW in NO WAY needs player housing. AT ALL.

- - - Updated - - -

He's right regarding the recalculated inflation measurements.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate...flation-charts

They adjusted it in 1990 in order to not make it seem as bad.

Here's a 2016 article discussing similar concepts as well.

https://www.businessinsider.com/if-p...economy-2016-8

I was talking about WoW metrics. I ignore the inflation nonsense because it is irrelevant to the discussion.

[tromage2]

Dragon riding LOL.
Can somebody explain to these morons that we ride them now for over 20 years its almost like they thought that water walking was a thing in 9.2.

[Yriel]

Dragonflight looks great, but seems really poorly thought out depending on how you look at it. If it does feel great, and I can use these new mechanics in the old world, then I'll be stuck wanting to use the fun new dragon mounts, but be limited to just that mount. And all my old mounts will collect dust as old flying will be boring by comparison. And, on the other side, if Dragonflight is limited to just the Dragon Isles, then we have more content that isn't evergreen and the dragon I fly will collect dust as we move to the next expansion in a few years.

I found that strange, too.
A real flight model for mounts is a cool thing but i sounded like all your 300+ mounts still only fly like a 3d camera and only the new dragon mounts use it?
Who thought would be a good idea?

[rrayy]

Whats straight forward is looking at the number of people willing to pay a monthly cost to play the game. For the past many years, less and less people are willing to pay for this game and they're paying for it for a shorter duration of time. THAT is a simple metric of how well a game is doing. All this bullshit about how the few remaining subs might have increased the average playtime metric by 30% or whatever number is absolutely meaningless, especially since a large reasoning for that playtime increase is because all the people who don't like the game have left.

If your game has 5 million subscribers and the monthly average playtime of them is say 25 hours, that is a MUCH healthier game than one which has 1 million subscribers with a monthly average playtime of 45 hours, because more often than not the remaining 1 million are the real addicted ones who don't care how good or bad the game is.

It's not that simple anymore. People have different ways of playing. They can be perfectly willing to pay, but don't have the time to make it worth paying for a month. I know this because I have been one of these people. YOu are being completely disingenuous by trying to claim that if you aren;t subbing, it is because you don;t like the game and are unwilling to pay for it. That is FAR from the only possible reason. Hence why the MAU's are better because it takes ALL of those different situations into account that subs do not.

It's obvious you are just going to stick to your narrative and spin everything to fit it, so we are done here.

[mauserr]

4- People are complaining about dragonrideing that will allow you to fly day 1 apparently. Saying that it is not real flying.

At this point you guys just want to hate.

It's a valid point though? Dragonriding has to be leveled, you won't get real flying (like the one you get after unlocking pathfinder). You will still be gated, and heavily, like with pathfinder, I suspect, until you can fully fly like we could in MoP and before after hitting max lvl and buying the appropriate skill.

[tekaqua]

Is anyone else not surprised they retconned cata? The aspects lost their power.....now they have their power back lol

typical blizzard, as I said 3 weeks ago. Deathwing will be a boss or be redeemed mark my words, these idiots can't go an expansion without reusing and bringing back lore and they love a good terrible redemption story

Where's the retcon? Who said they got their power back? Maybe that's part of the story. Jumpin the gun a bit early...

[Farora]

There is ZERO original thought or artistic merit in this whole thing.

There is just so much about this game and this team that rubs me the wrong way.

They're so fake and corporate that I physically feel nauseous watching these things.

There is almost nothing original or novel about what they do and the amount of money they bring in is absolutely absurd. Basically, everything was stuff they are half-ass stealing from other games or the community has aggressively been yelling at them to do for years.

The zones/creatures are literally slight mix and match of stuff already in the game, with seemingly nothing novel about them.

The new race/class looks like it's from a super derpy 80's Sci-fi movie.

The only interesting thing I'm actually interested in is how they change the UI, which is 15 years overdue, and that's probably because I'm a UX designer, which is sad thing to be the ONLY thing I'm excited about in an entirely new expansion.

We live in an age where merit and talent matter less and less and it's sad to watch.

There is really no hope for modern Blizzard. The original gang is long, long gone and the current team keeps getting worse and worse as time goes on. I have never seen a more uninspired and bored presentation from Blizzard. The average meeting at Dundler Mifflin looked more thrilling than this reveal. And this expansion just looks terrible.

Let's just hope a new game company rises in the coming years and creates something as mind blowing as the original Wow again.

[cateran100]

PVp is a part of WARcraft, especially the war part. Playing house is not. Let not be disingenuous here.

This logic does not make any sense....Housing is part of WORLD...so...

[Alcsaar]

It's not that simple anymore. People have different ways of playing. They can be perfectly willing to pay, but don't have the time to make it worth paying for a month. I know this because I have been one of these people. YOu are being completely disingenuous by trying to claim that if you aren;t subbing, it is because you don;t like the game and are unwilling to pay for it. That is FAR from the only possible reason. Hence why the MAU's are better because it takes ALL of those different situations into account that subs do not.

It's obvious you are just going to stick to your narrative and spin everything to fit it, so we are done here.

I'm not sure how you can claim with any basis that there is a meaningful amount of people out there who are willing to pay but don't have the time. If you want to talk about conjuration of measurements of success, that has to be by far the biggest one. If the game was good enough to play, the people willing to pay for it would make time to play it.

The truth is they don't because they'd rather do more enjoyable things, because the game hasn't been truly fun in a long time.

We can see this clearly with the massive droves of players moving to other games like FF.

- - - Updated - - -

I was talking about WoW metrics. I ignore the inflation nonsense because it is irrelevant to the discussion.

Its not irrelevant. Its a common practice anytime your "measurements of success or healthiness" are getting worse on a consistent basis, instead of fixing the problem you change the measurements of success to make it look better. If you don't think this applies to Blizzard, a for profit company first and foremost, then I don't know what to say.

Basically, you can't take Blizzard's metrics of success at face value, because their metrics are designed to be biased and favor them.

[tekaqua]

well alot of people are complaining for good reason but I'll try and respond to your points here;

1 -just because there isn't a big baddie there still needs to be conflict for adventure and what not. That reveal cinematic didn't really help there and neither did the presentation
2 - yeah This one I agree with u on. zones are zones you can't really say good or bad till end product and even then all zones pretty much start feeling the same after awhile in a game this old
3 - There are little to no new features. A new class thats exclusive to a new race(that is exclusive to that one class) and system revamp again.....I mean they even use the ui revamp as a key feature that says alot about the lack of features
4 - dragonriding doesn't really change the fact that its still just flying. Honestly from what they showed the new mounts and old ones both function bascially the same especially when used for its intended purpose of just traveling.

It all kinda feels like these new devs dont know what made this game such a hit. Its like watching old people try and figure out whats new and trendy kinda sad really

The problem is all the whiney people that want their own version of the game, and the devs are trying hard to please all the whiney people. I saw a lot of things put forth here that people have complained about for awhile and are complaining now that they got it. Funny to watch tho..

[crusadernero]

I guess it's also a depiction of the mentality we have right now, with people caring way more about aesthetics than substance. I honestly can't care less about skin colour, gender, political beliefs or whatever. I care about having good characters, stories and I want to have talented, passionate people at the helm of any projects regardless of who they are, but right now the package matters a lot more than what's inside in the eyes of most companies and that's why they won't care about having a good story, they care more about the identity of the characters and if the production is uninspired, well, they blame it on the audience for not 'getting it', for being 'bigots' or whatever. This is why they spend more time talking about the particle effects and landscapes than the story; it's why they didn't have anything mysterious at all, all Aspects arrive at the same time... When they mention the features, they never talk about something real, it's always 'it's cool', 'this is so cool and exciting', nothing grounded, only concepts.

I'm growing too old. LOL

Well, you are more than likely to not experience all of that from most games being spat out by the big gaming companies(Blizz, EA++). It delivers cool, shiny games that do in fact sell - but they most likely dont have a lasting hold on you. In the end though, these companies live and die by the chase for a neverending growth(money). As such, everything gets tailored around just that. With Warcraft, ActiBlizz(Microsoft soon) have a cashcow for years on end. It doesnt matter what we say on these forums, theres ALOT of people out there spending money on buying the game, subs, token, mounts, services(server transfer etc). More than enough, so many they have been growing in revenue even though wow has been in the shitter last couple of years. That speaks volume.

[Xilurm]

Again, turned out just fine for MoP.

Sad that people think like that. Last two times we had a clear goal, and both times sucked.

[Waylander]

Mixed feelings:

+ return of talent trees
+ zones look solid despite being recycled themes
+ profession upgrades
+ despite dragons everywhere, no mention of a "The Oculus" style raid or dungeons
+ cross faction play
+ no borrowed power (?)
+ new zones are single, connected landmass (?)
+ no "content branching" (?) (alliance/horde exclusive zones, convenant exclusive quest, etc.)
+ no mention of a mission table

o UI revamp is nice to have but just consolidation stuff
o "flying from the start" sounds too good to be true, I suspect tedious gating or stuff being spread out so much that it negates any of the flight benefits
o suspicious amount of fanservice "we heard the community wants so we..." -> "we frequently read and know what the community wants but ignore it until subscription numbers drop significantly"
o overall "more of the same"

- new class/race: weird art design, not really needed imo, does not have a tank spec
- corporate cringe presentation
- cinematic: looked good but what was it about again?
- no old world revamp, another expansion where 95% of the existing, huge game environment is irrelevant for endgame (96% if you exclude the auction house)
- just 4 new core zones without the intro zone


Wotlk Classic addendum:

+ Death Knight in prepatch
- no RFD

[Noobslayer]

I'm not impressed and the whole dragon flying thing sounds like it could easily become a pain in the ass. Not sure if I am even going to buy this expansion. The whole dragon thing I find to be a bit boring. I have already had enough dragon stuff from prior expansions.

[kamikaze148]

Disappointing. As usual.

I too am apprehensive to call this announcement amazing, but cmon, what do you want them to do?

At least they are addressing issues the player base has had with borrowed power, with the new talent system, and a new class to play around with...