How I Would Fix Drakthyr

[hllfrmththrsd]

you know that they had focus groups with different options of Dracthyr, right? this is a winner for the majority of people who's bringing cash to blizzard

[sighy]

While I see why you'd hold off on judgement for now, I do feel it's worth pointing out that this is one of the common issues we see every expansion. People see a potential issue, it gets brushed off as "we don't know where it will be, don't pass judgement until beta." We get to beta, the issue is still there, it gets brushed off by others as "it's only beta, wait until launch." Then when it still isn't fixed after launch, people ask why it wasn't brought up earlier. Not that this is where you'll go with the critique, but it has been a common thread on some issues for years now.

Moreso, I do feel like if there is a time to bring up issues with the model, it's now rather than later. Doing it now, the art team has time to alter the model to still work with their vision while taking feedback into account. It's possible the issues people see with the model won't matter once we actually have it in a playable version as opposed to a small sampling of video/images, but I'm all for people bringing this stuff up now while changes & adjustments can far easier be made & release dates aren't posing an immediate thread.

IF they really wanted to cover their bases they could have showcased their concept art, for the "bulkier" "slenderer", etcer variants to at least give the people an idea of the extent to which they're planning the customisation.

[Auburst]

I do think there should be more options since the class/race are restricted to each other, there should certainly be a true “slightly bulkier” option like this.





But suggestions like the following that I’ve seen people suggest makes no sense since they are all only spellcasters.


Don’t get me wrong though, something like the above would for sure be good… if they could be a proper melee spec. Or for when they get a melee class like warrior.

What a cool chad jaw the black edit has. Btw nice sig, those mofos should wear armors.

Anyway dragons are both bulky and spellcasters. Same goes for drakonids and those four legged ones.

[AngerFork]

The visage faces are still WIP though. The main issue people are having is that they look “unfinished”, and they look “unfinished” because it’s still a WIP. I do feel that minimal changes like polishing up the visage is mild enough to be handled in beta when we start getting more complete looking models.

They are, no doubt. We've even seen examples of that polish bringing in great new pieces to models, such as the fiery beards for Dark Iron Dwarves & the Void Hair for Void Elves. But we've also seen examples where what we saw in the preview that seemed highly unpolished is exactly what we got on live, such as the Nightborne. While I definitely don't think they should be fully judged until we actually have our hands on them, not bringing up things like scales/horns feeling painted on or the seemingly lack of visage models can easily lead to those issues not being brought up until later when the dev team is going to be mired in other fixes on all areas.

I'd far rather see the feedback like this made available early & note that either fixes were made or that the great parts of the model didn't show up pre-polish as well while getting something I'm happy with than to end up with another Nightborne situation where people are stuck with something they can't stand about the model & constantly asking for fixes after the fact.

IF they really wanted to cover their bases they could have showcased their concept art, for the "bulkier" "slenderer", etcer variants to at least give the people an idea of the extent to which they're planning the customisation.

Absolutely. Even a blog post now showing a few different sized Dracthyr models and/or some Visage models running around Stormwind would go a long way IMO.

[Cyi]

I know Ion said this has been a thing for awhile now, the entire race seems rushed and not well thought out.

[Supertoster]

Drakthyr dragon model seems to use female Nathrezim base from SL: https://www.wowhead.com/npc=181797/dreadlord-commander
Why not use a male version base too? https://www.wowhead.com/npc=182426/nathrezim-arcanist
It has bulky enough proportions. Use both and give players a choice.

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But suggestions like the following that I’ve seen people suggest makes no sense since they are all only spellcasters.

I can't agree with "they are spellcasters" argument.
They are not fragile mages or warlock. They don't wear robes and stuff. They use magic because they are magical creatures. And the whole idea of resctiction of Evoker class to only Drakthyr comes from idea that Evoker has physical abilities that use their wings, tails etc.
They use their bodies in combat. There is no reason for them to be fragile.

[FossilFree]

Armor is the biggest problem for me. I want to show my armor off and feel like the dragon form is the real me. It shouldn't feel like a druid shapeshift because it is your real form. The visage is the shapeshift. I want to play the dragon not the visage.

I'm convinced that it is just because of clipping issues. Clearly the dracthyr are modeled on the female worgen. Gear should already work. But if clipping is the problem and someone was getting obsessive about it, I could see them saying "Helm? The horns clip. Cloak? The wings clip. Leggings? The tail clips. Gloves? The claws clip. Boots? Beast feet don't get boots. Chestpiece? The base of the wings clip, but a tabard is fine because it's cloth. Mail tunics sometimes have breastplates and the metal clips."

The thing is, I don't care about clipping. Practically everything in WoW clips in some way, I'm used to it and expect it. The cloak and back pieces are the only things where clipping would be so extreme as to bother me. Horns jutting out of helms? Elf eyebrows and ears have no issues going through helms. Leggings? A hole cut for a tail shouldn't matter, see draenei. Gloves? Forsaken toe claws clip through. Chestpiece? Forsaken spines clip through. Besides, only a few mail tunics even have metal breastplates. Most look like they are made from mail and leather, which move like cloth and the same logic for allowing cloth tabards would apply.

And they haven't even stated what weapons they can equip and whether or not weapons show. I'll just get ahead of it now and say they need to show. More so than armor, even if just a stat stick.

Let the players decide what looks bad or not and toggle it for themselves in the transmog window. Style is a big part of WoW, we even have the trial of style. Players love their gear, why shoot your new race in the foot right from the start? I was so excited about everything to do with dracthyr until I heard they couldn't show most gear. I was planning on making it my new main. Now, I'm wondering if I'll even play it much at all.

[Deventh]

All of my support goes for the suggested OP ideas. The humanoid versions are one of my main reasons why I am not a huge fan of the race/class. Neither the blood elf male nor the human female are my preferred race/gender choices.

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Anyone playing this might as well have a "kick me" sign taped to their back, but I accept the critique in general.

This looks better than the human female version of the Dracthyr currently done by Blizz...

[Nightshade711]

Drakthyr dragon model seems to use female Nathrezim base from SL: https://www.wowhead.com/npc=181797/dreadlord-commander
Why not use a male version base too? https://www.wowhead.com/npc=182426/nathrezim-arcanist
It has bulky enough proportions. Use both and give players a choice.

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I can't agree with "they are spellcasters" argument.
They are not fragile mages or warlock. They don't wear robes and stuff. They use magic because they are magical creatures. And the whole idea of resctiction of Evoker class to only Drakthyr comes from idea that Evoker has physical abilities that use their wings, tails etc.
They use their bodies in combat. There is no reason for them to be fragile.

They can be a little bulkier like we've seen in other concepts for sure because they have those sort of abilities.
But looking like a strongman doesn't make sense when most, if not all of their combat is done at a range with magic.

If they had an actual melee spec or class then sure I could understand looking like a dragon version of General Draven, but alas they do not.

[Julmara]

This. Give me this.

But I have a feeling they went slim so they can reuse the Worgen animations. Quite a shame.

oh they did just copy paste some animations ?
what a shame

[Nightshade711]

This. Give me this.

But I have a feeling they went slim so they can reuse the Worgen animations. Quite a shame.

Tbh to me it looks more like they used the DH meta animations/skeleton instead of Worgen.
Bc when you compare their run to the DHs though it's the exact same. (Same for the Incubus / Female winged Eredar from Argus because they also use the DH meta rig)

[Teriz]

They are, no doubt. We've even seen examples of that polish bringing in great new pieces to models, such as the fiery beards for Dark Iron Dwarves & the Void Hair for Void Elves. But we've also seen examples where what we saw in the preview that seemed highly unpolished is exactly what we got on live, such as the Nightborne. While I definitely don't think they should be fully judged until we actually have our hands on them, not bringing up things like scales/horns feeling painted on or the seemingly lack of visage models can easily lead to those issues not being brought up until later when the dev team is going to be mired in other fixes on all areas.

I'd far rather see the feedback like this made available early & note that either fixes were made or that the great parts of the model didn't show up pre-polish as well while getting something I'm happy with than to end up with another Nightborne situation where people are stuck with something they can't stand about the model & constantly asking for fixes after the fact.

Gotcha. I agree with this.

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I can't agree with "they are spellcasters" argument.
They are not fragile mages or warlock. They don't wear robes and stuff. They use magic because they are magical creatures. And the whole idea of resctiction of Evoker class to only Drakthyr comes from idea that Evoker has physical abilities that use their wings, tails etc.
They use their bodies in combat. There is no reason for them to be fragile.

Yeah, I would consider them magical creatures, or playable monsters. They are literally dragons.

[RyudoTFO]

My major concern is that I would rather have every current playable race (they could limit it only to the races of the faction you are part of, for gameplay reasons), with some minor draconic features, like horns and scales on face and body parts (a la Demon Hunter) available, as a visage, rather than a human/elf hybrid with over 30 different hair colours ...

Did Wrathion forgot to drop the rest on the mortal races DNA into the cauldron when mixing his new super dragons after he poured some Human and Bloodelf in, or was he perhaps specifically selective?

[Zuben]

Showing armor on them is the least they could do, since drakthyr are this weird, campy hybrid between actual dragons and humanoids, meaning they don't really serve our desire to play dragons but look to be some breed of Dragonkin, whom we affiliate with armor-clad grunts. Model-wise I definitely prefer the "Bulky" option displayed here, it's a huge improvement. If we get bulky+armor I might actually roll a drakthyr, where as the way they are now is just unappealing to me.

[Auburst]

Gotcha. I agree with this.

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Yeah, I would consider them magical creatures, or playable monsters. They are literally dragons.

They are half dragons and half mortal races.

[Guyviroth]

Eh, I'm not too fussed about the race itself. However, in a recent interview, they did discuss having more bulky torso options, and that they can show "unique" armor pieces similar to how other races have jewelry options, which you can then change at the barber shop.

Having said that, I would like to see more options to make dracthyr more bulky, look meaner, and give some heft to them. It would also be a good test bed to give similar body build options to other races. Might even get skinny humans that will be great for spellcasters.

[Sluvs]

The way they currently are it just look like a human with scales and a dragon head. I don't get the feeling that they are dragons.

They need to be bulkier and add the option to be in combat as the visage form.

The more I look at this the more I believe WoW is Strapped for cash. Just speculating here, but maybe they cannot get more money until the merger is done or something.

Reusing elf and humans models?
So many restrictions ?


Maybe I'm imagining things , who knows.

[Teriz]

They are half dragons and half mortal races.

Semantics. They do everything that a dragon can do. Their purpose is to allow the player to be a dragon.

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They need to be bulkier and add the option to be in combat as the visage form.
.

They're as tall if not taller than Tauren, so there's no need for them to be more bulky.

There's also no point in fighting in visage form. You're a dragon, and you should be fighting as one.

[Nightshade711]

The way they currently are it just look like a human with scales and a dragon head. I don't get the feeling that they are dragons.

They need to be bulkier and add the option to be in combat as the visage form.

The more I look at this the more I believe WoW is Strapped for cash. Just speculating here, but maybe they cannot get more money until the merger is done or something.

Reusing elf and humans models?
So many restrictions ?


Maybe I'm imagining things , who knows.

In one of the interviews they’ve done they said they’re looking into ways to let players be in their visage form in combat.
It might mean it would be a hard toggle, with you shifting into dragon form for certain abilities. Sort of like the DH Eye Beam or Infernal Leap.

[Echo of Soul]

The problem is that you're trying to make them more alpha when they're designed to be more gentle and appeal to a non straight player. It's like removing the multi colored theme and restricting it to a single or a handful of colors, it goes against the entire core visual design of the race and class.

If it doesn't appeal to you that's fine and you're probably not the target audience, people like me however are the target audience and making the race+class more masculine would ruin the whole thing.