ONLY 4 new dungeons for M+ initially

[crusadernero]

Its not going to help, you have 8 dungeons in pool, with 4 of them people did 100 times already (yes at easier level but still).

The only way to alleviate that is to expand M+ dungeon pool. No other pseudo solution (that is literally cash grab) is going to work.

How do you know that most people have played the new dungeons that comes into rotation a whole lot? Also, non of us have played them in a m+ setting.

Besides, the whole concept of m+ is running the meta comp, execute mechanics & beat the timer. Also, you repeat these dungeons over and over. At a certain point it doesnt even matter what dungeon you do m+ on, its about clearing a higher key.

[kaminaris]

How much of the playerbase that quit had invested alot of time into m+? I mean, is m+ the big thing for most wow players that have quit? Tbh, the only good thing in retail wow now is the raid & M+.

Yet, SL is something players runs from en-mass. Thats not because of m+ being bad.

Yes, there are plenty of other bad decisions which ultimately boils down to devs being incompentent and lack critical thinking. Professions, terrible legendary crafting, forced farming boring zones etc.

Wouldn't keep me from playing, but M+ and raids in current state absolutely did manage for our group to mass-unsub.

[crusadernero]

no . you are missing the point - just like almost all people here miss it.

blizzard is multi billion $ company .

instead fighting for how to split it players should openly demand

8 new dragonflught dungeons first seaosn

8 new dragonflight dungeons 2nd season

and maaaybe maybe 3rd season could be some combo of season 1 and 2 dungeons and old ones.

why do you people settle for less ?

So you realistically think Blizzard should make 16+ fleshed out new dungeons for each xpac? Xpacs that are planned to be released every 2-3 years? You should probably hire for a job there and show them how its done lol

[Talon8669]

I didn’t say you said that, I was calling it big boy stuff lol. That’s called a condescending statement in case that flew over your head. How many times are you going to tell me to have a good day until you actually stop watching this thread like you said you were haha.

Idk probably until you stop eating crayons.

[Rayr]

Its not going to help, you have 8 dungeons in pool, with 4 of them people did 100 times already (yes at easier level but still).

The only way to alleviate that is to expand M+ dungeon pool. No other pseudo solution (that is literally cash grab) is going to work.

The “it’s at an easier level but still” isn’t something to brush off dude lol. Like imagine one of the dungeons is pit of saron from wotlk. They revamp it to be super hard difficulty on a dungeon most people either have never done before or haven’t done in over 12 years. Honestly after you’re running something on a mythic plus level where you would have already run that specific dungeon over and over and over and over again anyways in the new expansion, what does it really matter if it was brand new or if you haven’t touched it in over 12 years. That’s being silly. Like really ridiculously silly

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We know enough, no changes to raids, 20M is unmanageable mess, weekly bingo lottery stays, M+ is gettin even worse. I quit shadowlands right before first mythic raids were opened, didn't play or paid ever since. What makes you think we don't know what we want?

No we do not, we barely know a single thing about this expansion, you are being incredibly dense if you believe this is true.

[kaminaris]

How do you know that most people have played the new dungeons that comes into rotation a whole lot? Also, non of us have played them in a m+ setting.

Besides, the whole concept of m+ is running the meta comp, execute mechanics & beat the timer. Also, you repeat these dungeons over and over. At a certain point it doesnt even matter what dungeon you do m+ on, its about clearing a higher key.

Because M+ dungeons are templated dungeons. It doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out how its gonna be played. If they are gonna do older ones, we already know what to expect - another template, another download-follow route. No surprise here because of esports.

[crusadernero]

Yes, there are plenty of other bad decisions which ultimately boils down to devs being incompentent and lack critical thinking. Professions, terrible legendary crafting, forced farming boring zones etc.

Wouldn't keep me from playing, but M+ and raids in current state absolutely did manage for our group to mass-unsub.

Proffs; yes.
LEgendary system; yes.
Forced farming zones; What zones? You had to farm torgshite for Soul ass, but thats about it. Maybe some in maw, korthia? Those zones were lacking to.

All of this was shite but had nothing to do with m+ & raids. m+ & raids has been good throughout whole of SL, cause its the same system as in previous xpacs. Big m+ players might hate SL, but thats not because of m+ itself but all the other shite Blizzard made us do.

Now for 10.0:
Proffs; total overhaul, big changes.
LEgendary system: Gone. THere aint one.
Forced farming boring zones; Nothing of it. Theres rep farming, but thats for cosmetics, mounts, pets. Not player power.

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Because M+ dungeons are templated dungeons. It doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out how its gonna be played. If they are gonna do older ones, we already know what to expect - another template, another download-follow route. No surprise here because of esports.

If Blizzard launched 10.0 with 20 new dungeons, there still wouldnt be any surprise for any somewhat serious m+ player. Long before release there would be meta comps ready & optimal routes for each and every dungeon. Why? BEcause of extensive testing before launch and every halfass serious YT creator will have made 18903719872 videos about everything.

New World is a decent example. Everything with that game was broken down to a science long before launch.

[Rayr]

Because M+ dungeons are templated dungeons. It doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out how its gonna be played. If they are gonna do older ones, we already know what to expect - another template, another download-follow route. No surprise here because of esports.

So you mean the exact same thing that happens to new dungeons literally before the expansion even drops?

[kaminaris]

The “it’s at an easier level but still” isn’t something to brush off dude lol. Like imagine one of the dungeons is pit of saron from wotlk. They revamp it to be super hard difficulty on a dungeon most people either have never done before or haven’t done in over 12 years. Honestly after you’re running something on a mythic plus level where you would have already run that specific dungeon over and over and over and over again anyways in the new expansion, what does it really matter if it was brand new or if you haven’t touched it in over 12 years. That’s being silly. Like really ridiculously silly

It is something to brush off. Its old content that is going to be turned into M+ template. Both of those things are known.

No we do not, we barely know a single thing about this expansion, you are being incredibly dense if you believe this is true.

I do not need to believe anything, Ion said everything i needed to know already. So unless he moonwalks away from his statements, I won't be playing it. Perhaps you are dense one and never read any interview?

[elaina]

This is stupid. This and the shadowlands s4 remix raids are showing off a bad new trend.

For people who spam dungeons leveling I also think 4 is too few but adding in old dungeons isn't the answer, esp in a 1:1 ratio,,, that completely dilutes the mood/fantasy of the expansion because you know for some reason you're fighting the Sha in shadopan for some reason. People who repeatedly do m+ dungeons are gonna be sick to death of these.

The thing they used to do of adding 2 old dungeons with new stories I think was fine (the scarlet dungeons, sfk, etc)

[crusadernero]

This is stupid. This and the shadowlands s4 remix raids are showing off a bad new trend.

For people who spam dungeons leveling I also think 4 is too few but adding in old dungeons isn't the answer, esp in a 1:1 ratio,,, that completely dilutes the mood/fantasy of the expansion because you know for some reason you're fighting the Sha in shadopan for some reason.

The thing they used to do of adding 2 old dungeons with new stories I think was fine (the scarlet dungeons, sfk, etc)

They are adding 8 dungeons at launch for normal, HC & m0. 4 of them wont be in the m+ rotation, 4 of them will.

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It is something to brush off. Its old content that is going to be turned into M+ template. Both of those things are known.


I do not need to believe anything, Ion said everything i needed to know already. So unless he moonwalks away from his statements, I won't be playing it. Perhaps you are dense one and never read any interview?

I think you highly overestimate how many wow players actually like m+ and runs it alot. I think a minority of the overall playerbase actually engage in it and actually likes it.

In any case, m+ & raids are the only stable thing Blizzard delivers on. Whats the difference between m+ now and back in Legion/BFA?

[kaminaris]

Proffs; yes.
LEgendary system; yes.
Forced farming zones; What zones? You had to farm torgshite for Soul ass, but thats about it. Maybe some in maw, korthia? Those zones were lacking to.

Yep, you answered your own question.

All of this was shite but had nothing to do with m+ & raids. m+ & raids has been good throughout whole of SL, cause its the same system as in previous xpacs. Big m+ players might hate SL, but thats not because of m+ itself but all the other shite Blizzard made us do.

Thats what i said. I quit because of miserable raid and M+ state.

Now for 10.0:
Proffs; total overhaul, big changes.
LEgendary system: Gone. THere aint one.
Forced farming boring zones; Nothing of it. Theres rep farming, but thats for cosmetics, mounts, pets. Not player power.

1. doesn't affect me, affects others
2. one good thing
3. another good one

M+ and raids still in shit state.

If Blizzard launched 10.0 with 20 new dungeons, there still wouldnt be any surprise for any somewhat serious m+ player. Long before release there would be meta comps ready & optimal routes for each and every dungeon. Why? BEcause of extensive testing before launch and every halfass serious YT creator will have made 18903719872 videos about everything.

New World is a decent example. Everything with that game was broken down to a science long before launch.

Its not about getting surprises, its about not getting same dungeon 3 times per week.

[m4Zzo928]

They are adding 8 dungeons at launch for normal, HC & m0. 4 of them wont be in the m+ rotation, 4 of them will.

This is why I didn’t like the post title. People are getting confused.

[Rayr]

It is something to brush off. Its old content that is going to be turned into M+ template. Both of those things are known.


I do not need to believe anything, Ion said everything i needed to know already. So unless he moonwalks away from his statements, I won't be playing it. Perhaps you are dense one and never read any interview?

Why are you even here if you already made your decision then? If you already made your decision not to play, then just don’t play. Your reasons are silly enough to the point to where I’m not buying what you’re saying for a second lol.

[crusadernero]

Yep, you answered your own question.



Thats what i said. I quit because of miserable raid and M+ state.


1. doesn't affect me, affects others
2. one good thing
3. another good one

M+ and raids still in shit state.



Its not about getting surprises, its about not getting same dungeon 3 times per week.

You brought up proffesions as something Blizz did bad. Now you say you dont care about proffesions either way. OK.

How are m+ & raids in a bad state? As I understand it, all raids in SL has been quite good. The raids aint the problem here. Neither are the m+ feature in SL cause thats more or less identical to previous xpacs. Whats bad about them? You havent said whats bad with them, you have mentioned things outside of m+.

You do realise we play the same m+ dungeons over and over no matter what right? We dont get 3 dungeons now, we wont get 3 dungeons in 10.0. Theres a pool of dungeons to do, not 3.

[kaminaris]

[QUOTE=crusadernero;53730854]
I think you highly overestimate how many wow players actually like m+ and runs it alot. I think a minority of the overall playerbase actually engage in it and actually likes it.

In any case, m+ & raids are the only stable thing Blizzard delivers on.

I think you misread what i said.
I dont give a fuck about lots of aspects except for M+/Raids
But I know other people care about it ex professions.

Whats the difference between m+ now and back in Legion/BFA?

Titanforging and lack of weekly bingo. NO CHEST WAS NOT THE SAME, I had most gear simply from dungeon, forged.

Not saying TF should come back, but weekly bingo should be gone. And if they really want it, currency to upgrade gear to max ilvl.

[Khaza-R]

Its not going to help, you have 8 dungeons in pool, with 4 of them people did 100 times already (yes at easier level but still).

The only way to alleviate that is to expand M+ dungeon pool. No other pseudo solution (that is literally cash grab) is going to work.

Adding variety is one goal of the change but its not the only one. Expanding the pool mildly alleviates burnout but also increases the entry curve against new and returning players. Shadowlands saw a huge drop-off in M+ participation after S2. Part of the change is so that new/returning players don't feel as off put at the start of a new season. If that's healthier overall for the game then I am all for it.

[kaminaris]

Why are you even here if you already made your decision then? If you already made your decision not to play, then just don’t play. Your reasons are silly enough to the point to where I’m not buying what you’re saying for a second lol.

I have this bookmarked: https://philosophy.stackexchange.com...t-like-it-move
in case of terrible arguments like this.

[Rayr]

Its not about getting surprises, its about not getting same dungeon 3 times per week.

?????????????

Do you not see the contradiction here? Seriously is this just blowing over your head?

[kaminaris]

Adding variety is one goal of the change but its not the only one. Expanding the pool mildly alleviates burnout but also increases the entry curve against new and returning players. Shadowlands saw a huge drop-off in M+ participation after S2.

Entry curve is pretty much the same, old dungeons are known, routes can be downloaded and prepared in advance. For anyone that even remotely plays M+ seriously, jumping at any time, getting KSM would be zero issue, regardless of how big pool would be.