[TV] Ms. Marvel

[Shadowferal]

In Infinity War, half of the human race died. In Ms Marvel, all of the human race could’ve died. If you’re going to use Infinity War as a metric for “high stakes”, then anything will arguably come up short. However, from the perspective of people who are confined to one planet and are largely ignorant of the universe at large, everyone dying is pretty fucking big.

I'm sure there's an Auschwitz Bakery somewhere.

[Fabinas]

But Kamran wasn't evil? And me as a kid would also have tried to make friends "with adults or the other (older) kid". And not hurting Kamran to protect her loved ones was her choice.

Sure it was. A childish and immature one. Definitely not a compelling choice and thus a story.

- - - Updated - - -

So you missed the part where another reality could've destroyed their own reality?
Or the kid with powers going out of control because of an external stress?

It was a PG story where the genocide of billions was heavily implied.

Didn't miss it. I was talking about the last episode. Not the 5th.

[Endus]

Sure it was. A childish and immature one. Definitely not a compelling choice and thus a story.

Doing the harder thing to protect everyone rather than the conveniently mindless thing of punching the problem is neither "childish" nor "immature". She achieved a better outcome for everyone than your own proposal.

[Fabinas]

Doing the harder thing to protect everyone rather than the conveniently mindless thing of punching the problem is neither "childish" nor "immature". She achieved a better outcome for everyone than your own proposal.

Too bad world doesn't work like this. People hellbent to achieve lifegoals (like Kamran's mother) don't change their minds because they suddenly remembered they had a kid who they themselves abandoned because of betrayal of their goals (5th episode), nor are being touched by the overwhelming effort of love and protection against all involved parties (last episode).

I understand that what happened had to be done (by the writers) to establish our hero, but i guess i'm more fond of hero travels with more nuanced choice, including loss and grief. Stories as such depicted are kid stories and i'm done with those years ago. It might be what they tried to market the series to, but i'm not their audience and my criticism should be taken as such.

[Snuke]

Too bad world doesn't work like this. People hellbent to achieve lifegoals (like Kamran's mother) don't change their minds because they suddenly remembered they had a kid who they themselves abandoned because of betrayal of their goals (5th episode), nor are being touched by the overwhelming effort of love and protection against all involved parties (last episode).

I understand that what happened had to be done (by the writers) to establish our hero, but i guess i'm more fond of hero travels with more nuanced choice, including loss and grief. Stories as such depicted are kid stories and i'm done with those years ago. It might be what they tried to market the series to, but i'm not their audience and my criticism should be taken as such.

We see no evidence that Kamran’s mother gave up. She may well influence him in the future to be Kamala’s villain. Hell, if he doesn’t end up there I’d be shocked,

[Fabinas]

We see no evidence that Kamran’s mother gave up. She may well influence him in the future to be Kamala’s villain. Hell, if he doesn’t end up there I’d be shocked,

We will see where and if the movie takes us there, since it's the next chapter of Ms.Marvel story.

[Endus]

Too bad world doesn't work like this. People hellbent to achieve lifegoals (like Kamran's mother) don't change their minds because they suddenly remembered they had a kid who they themselves abandoned because of betrayal of their goals (5th episode), nor are being touched by the overwhelming effort of love and protection against all involved parties (last episode).

Najma's whole "thing" was protecting her family. That's why she wanted to get them home. It wasn't even a shift in motive for her, just a shift in perspective.

I understand that what happened had to be done (by the writers) to establish our hero, but i guess i'm more fond of hero travels with more nuanced choice, including loss and grief. Stories as such depicted are kid stories and i'm done with those years ago. It might be what they tried to market the series to, but i'm not their audience and my criticism should be taken as such.

There's nothing "nuanced" about loss or grief, dude. They aren't more "mature" than other themes. And they're themes that are present in a hell of a lot of children's films, to boot. See nearly every Disney film ever made.

[Snuke]

We will see where and if the movie takes us there, since it's the next chapter of Ms.Marvel story.

Feels a lot more like a S2 kinda thing, imo. The Marvels is still a Captain Marvel movie for the most part, so the villain is more likely to be hers.

[Fabinas]

Najma's whole "thing" was protecting her family. That's why she wanted to get them home. It wasn't even a shift in motive for her, just a shift in perspective.


There's nothing "nuanced" about loss or grief, dude. They aren't more "mature" than other themes. And they're themes that are present in a hell of a lot of children's films, to boot. See nearly every Disney film ever made.

No, not protecting her family. Just going back home. And to hell with all obstacles or deniers.

Nuanced CHOICES. Choices that cause loss and grief. Stop twisting words.

As i said, children stuff in my superhero stories are not my stick. It's ok if it's present, it's not so ok for me if it's only that. She's a teen, bound to meet cosmic powers in the next MCU chapters and such choices as in the series will probably get her killed. Or others while she's trying to make Thanos-like entities (or even stronger) play good with Earth.

They better change the character course.

[Endus]

No, not protecting her family. Just going back home. And to hell with all obstacles or deniers.

I mean, that's clearly untrue. Her motivations are demonstrated to be at least as much about Clan Destine as anything. She's ruthless, but she's not uncaring.

Nuanced CHOICES. Choices that cause loss and grief. Stop twisting words.

And those choices exist in Ms. Marvel. And they're not "nuanced" in any meaningful sense. They don't make a story "more mature".

As i said, children stuff in my superhero stories are not my stick. It's ok if it's present, it's not so ok for me if it's only that. She's a teen, bound to meet cosmic powers in the next MCU chapters and such choices as in the series will probably get her killed. Or others while she's trying to make Thanos-like entities (or even stronger) play good with Earth.

Man, if you think that's Kamala's "thing", you were not paying any attention at all to the show. That she's able to find more nuanced solutions to problem other than "smash apparent threat" is a positive. Could she stand up to Thanos by herself? Obviously not. Nobody could have. That was literally the point of that whole arc. And the two major "threats" she dealt with here were Najma, who she convinced to save her own son rather than throw her life away trying to cross an unstable rift, and Kamran himself, whose new powers were just out of control, much as hers had been at the start. Kamran wasn't a real threat, and the only person making Najma be a threat was Najma herself. And Kamala wasn't an outsider; she would have been adopted into Clan Destine wholesale if she'd agreed from the start to help; Najma only turned to violence when Kamala, like her great-grandmother, tried to keep the bangle from being used for their return to the Noor; if Najma was going to listen to anyone, it'd be Kamala.

You're making up a narrative that simply did not exist.

You're also literally arguing against the nuanced outcomes of this story, in favor of mindless "PUNCH BAD" resolutions.

[Rathwirt]

No, not protecting her family. Just going back home. And to hell with all obstacles or deniers.

Nuanced CHOICES. Choices that cause loss and grief. Stop twisting words.

As i said, children stuff in my superhero stories are not my stick. It's ok if it's present, it's not so ok for me if it's only that. She's a teen, bound to meet cosmic powers in the next MCU chapters and such choices as in the series will probably get her killed. Or others while she's trying to make Thanos-like entities (or even stronger) play good with Earth.

They better change the character course.

This is partly why so much of anime doesn't appeal to me. So much of it is high-school drama "with a twist" and it's just completely uninteresting to me. There are a few series that I really enjoy but none of them have to do with kids as a main character lol.

[Fabinas]

I mean, that's clearly untrue. Her motivations are demonstrated to be at least as much about Clan Destine as anything. She's ruthless, but she's not uncaring.



And those choices exist in Ms. Marvel. And they're not "nuanced" in any meaningful sense. They don't make a story "more mature".



Man, if you think that's Kamala's "thing", you were not paying any attention at all to the show. That she's able to find more nuanced solutions to problem other than "smash apparent threat" is a positive. Could she stand up to Thanos by herself? Obviously not. Nobody could have. That was literally the point of that whole arc. And the two major "threats" she dealt with here were Najma, who she convinced to save her own son rather than throw her life away trying to cross an unstable rift, and Kamran himself, whose new powers were just out of control, much as hers had been at the start. Kamran wasn't a real threat, and the only person making Najma be a threat was Najma herself. And Kamala wasn't an outsider; she would have been adopted into Clan Destine wholesale if she'd agreed from the start to help; Najma only turned to violence when Kamala, like her great-grandmother, tried to keep the bangle from being used for their return to the Noor; if Najma was going to listen to anyone, it'd be Kamala.

You're making up a narrative that simply did not exist.

You're also literally arguing against the nuanced outcomes of this story, in favor of mindless "PUNCH BAD" resolutions.

I have already explained to a previous post that i wasn't wishing for a "punch bad" or "smash apparent threat" resolution. Stop oversimplyfying andtwisting what i clearly expressed as a preference of mine just for the sake of whiteknighting and internet arguing.

Najma is self absorbed in such a way she'd be willing to kill ANYONE for the bangle. And has twisted the rest of the Clandestines to become loyal killing machines. Wow, so much caring.

Also, she could have listened to Kamala before attacking the wedding. But no, she had to see her mindless killing grunts "die", (if that was so) to understand what she sought wasn't what she imagined she wished. Can't imagine a more silly motive for her actions which actually is "I'll kill and sacrifice anyone to open a portal that I have no knowledge about, despite having coming from it on the other side".

Duh, Red Daggers knowing more about the other dimension than the people actually coming from it? Pass.

It's a totally simplified hero origin story, written to appeal to teens and kids for marketing reasons. There's no internal growth and matureness in the character. It's ok, but i prefered more.

I just hope they write the character better in the movie.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

And they ultimately didn’t die from the blip either. They just skipped a few years.

But the stakes were that if they lose...everyone that was lost stays lost forever. And in Endgame...Thanos ups the stakes again...if he had gotten the gauntlet again...he would have just snapped everyone away this time...so no one would be left to attempt to undo it.