Youtuber strategy exposed?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Don't hate the playa
Hate the game

[Flarelaine]

Don't hate the playa
Hate the game

If said players play that game, they contribute and perpetuate.

[Soulwind]

I guess we can't hold it against the individual youtubers for doing something Google has made necessary to succeed.

I wouldn't even blame Google. They designed an algorithm based simply on attention and popularity. If people tend to pay more mind to negativity and spend more time looking for conflict, what's the algorithm supposed to do? Feed them something other than what they're looking for? Wouldn't that be more manipulative?

Don't get me wrong, the whole thing is extremely dangerous and society is getting more polarized and toxic every day since social networks became a thing. But ultimately it's a problem of us as a species not being designed to have so many instant, meaningless interactions and such overwhelming amount of information. And that's without taking into account that there are indeed those who use these tools in bad faith.

The Internet is a great invention on its own, but we were probably not ready for it. And now a world without it would be unthinkable.

[Endus]

True, but the algorithm universally promotes negativity & that's hard to ignore. Both are true.

It's really not.

The algorithm mostly just feeds you more of what you're already watching, expanding out a bit from the trends of what you've watched, but not a lot. Kick stuff out of your queue without watching it, if it's not content you want to see. Exclude entire channels. If you're seeing the algorithm inevitably spin you down a pit of negativity, that reflects on what you are watching.

My current home page on Youtube is offering me, in order;

A vid by a Twitch streamer I rarely watch, mostly funny nonsense
A video on the Coptic language
A funny vid by a video essayist
A couple videos from the atheism community, one of which looks angry and condescending and that I'll purge (I watch some for the philosophical breakdowns and debunking of con artists/cult leaders)
Another different streamer I watched a few vids of, this one of a Loop Hero run FWIW.
A discussion on the origins of astrology in a historical sense (not one pushing astrology, in other words)
A board game show.
A short summary of the collapse of Mycenean Greece

And so on. Yeah, it's a mess of weird interests and I make no apologies, and I do weird research sometimes that bleeds in. Only a couple are really negative in a bad way (rather than what I'd call "critical" in an analytical sense), and I'll purge most of those.

You get out of Youtube's algorithm what you put in. And if you're not managing it, you're letting it manage you.

[Delekii]

Turns out, people watch things that they like, so Youtube presents people with things that they like (and thus are more likely to watch) so that they can sell more advertising.

Holy shit, ground-breaking.

PS: What on Earth are you going to do now @HansOlo, Bellular's most recent video praises Blizzard for acquiring Spellbreak to help with development on the expansion and his clickbaity title of choice this time is how it might SAVE World of Warcraft!

What will you do now that your world view is broken?

[HansOlo]

Turns out, people watch things that they like, so Youtube presents people with things that they like (and thus are more likely to watch) so that they can sell more advertising.

Holy shit, ground-breaking.

PS: What on Earth are you going to do now @HansOlo, Bellular's most recent video praises Blizzard for acquiring Spellbreak to help with development on the expansion and his clickbaity title of choice this time is how it might SAVE World of Warcraft!

What will you do now that your world view is broken?

So youtube is presenting me a guy, who are motivated by money.

The question is - what will the community do?

[Delekii]

So youtube is presenting me a guy, who are motivated by money.

The question is - what will the community do?

In the exact same way that companies are motivated by money, it doesn't mean they necessarily are producing a bad product. You can produce garbage and use underhanded tactics to cajole people out of money (like Blizzard with Diablo Immortal), or you can produce content that people want to consume. I don't know which one Bellular falls in, but I find it hilarious that you simultaneously support Blizzard and decry Bellular for being overly influenced by money

[HansOlo]

In the exact same way that companies are motivated by money, it doesn't mean they necessarily are producing a bad product. You can produce garbage and use underhanded tactics to cajole people out of money (like Blizzard with Diablo Immortal), or you can produce content that people want to consume. I don't know which one Bellular falls in, but I find it hilarious that you simultaneously support Blizzard and decry Bellular for being overly influenced by money

Here is the thing - a company with more than 4K empolyees, not to mention all the partners working at WoWhead, fansites like MMO-C earning money from the existence of this product.

And then we have a guy - who is motivated by his wallet.

I'm very clear who I find the most honorable.

[HansOlo]

The company that has cube crawls, underpays their staff so they can't even afford to eat at their in-house cafateria, has a CEO that threatened to have someone killed, Union busts, employees stealing breast milk from lactating mothers. . . Vs a guy with a few employees, has an opinion, who hasn't really been in any major negative scenarios (which may be because he isn't a piece of shit or because no one has stepped forward, I'd err on the former).

You are just outing your own moral integrity here, and it isn't exactly a positive look for ya.

What you are saying is irrelevant. We also live in a world of hunger and pain - will you quit supporting life?

The same guy presented his own gamestudio. How sympathic and cute little employer.

You both a products of influenzer. Shame that you never saw the pre-era of youtube.

[Delekii]

Here is the thing - a company with more than 4K empolyees, not to mention all the partners working at WoWhead, fansites like MMO-C earning money from the existence of this product.

And then we have a guy - who is motivated by his wallet.

I'm very clear who I find the most honorable.

A company with 4k employees and a fiduciary responsibility to line the pockets of its CEO with yachts?

Random websites put Bellular's net worth at 350k.. who the fuck knows where they pull that number from, but let's multiply it by a factor of 20, putting him at 7mil. That is likely a massive overestimation, but still.. let's go with it.

Bobby Kotick's net worth is, at a bare minimum, $500million dollars and rising.

Maybe you think he doesn't have much of a hand in monetisation strategies at Blizzard though

[HansOlo]

It's not, you just want it to be because of how poorly it reflects on you and your values. Also that's a not-so-subtle way to insinuate someone should kill themselves, probably may want to edit that out.

Okay? You are fine with Blizzard doing such things but other people can't?

Hi, been playing games since I was 5, back in the early 90s. I'm not a product of "influencers", I just happen to be able to think and not let my anger and hatred of someone cloud whether or not their argument has merit.

I'm unsure what Bellular did for you to be this perturbed by him, but whatever it is it HAS to rival the list above and more, surely?

Bellular represents the same thing as flat earthers represents for me - it's not the influenzer, it's the people. You and the other guy is the problem.

If you are like me, a young kid from 90s - then you know that when you were done playing Super Mario - you moved on.
You didn't make a movement with the motivation of bashing Nintendo(and not mention, actually getting rewarded).

No matter which argument you come up with, Blizzard is not doing any better or worse than any other company. The whole discussion is based on a fallacy.

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A company with 4k employees and a fiduciary responsibility to line the pockets of its CEO with yachts?

Random websites put Bellular's net worth at 350k.. who the fuck knows where they pull that number from, but let's multiply it by a factor of 20, putting him at 7mil. That is likely a massive overestimation, but still.. let's go with it.

Bobby Kotick's net worth is, at a bare minimum, $500million dollars and rising.

Maybe you think he doesn't have much of a hand in monetisation strategies at Blizzard though

My response above to you as well.

[Unholyground]

If you made out living, by bashing products and your motivation is money. That means you are disturbing my interests(by affecting the community), and many other hardworking people in the industry. You are literally playing with people's food(from the cleaners at Blizzard to supporting positive traffic at sites like MMO-C)

Screw these 'content creators'.

Bellular is just taking advantage of the community(now that the community can't think for itself anylonger). And it bothers me, as he doesn't come of genuine. Notice that I didn't even know anything about the algorithm - that's how obvious it is.

Watch Asmons reaction vid on Bellular. It kinda reveals Bellulars intention. This affects the rest of us, when the community instead starts talking about 'WoW is dead', 'Blizzard steals from you' rather than more positive, balanced or constructive notes.

To be fair blizzard should be a lot more fair with its practices but that's what happens when the end goal is always money over substance.

[Delekii]

Bellular represents the same thing as flat earthers represents for me - it's not the influenzer, it's the people. You and the other guy is the problem.

If you are like me, a young kid from 90s - then you know that when you were done playing Super Mario - you moved on.
You didn't make a movement with the motivation of bashing Nintendo(and not mention, actually getting rewarded).

No matter which argument you come up with, Blizzard is not doing any better or worse than any other company. The whole discussion is based on a fallacy.

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My response above to you as well.

Im a kid from the 80s, that was 30 years ago. Blizzard is absolutely doing worse than many other companies. You repeatedly ignore evidence proving as such and then transition to strawman arguments as soon as you might need to respond to an argument with a non-garbled sentence. I assume that English isn't your first language because some of what you say just flatly doesn't make sense, but even given that caveat, some of what you say is inexcusably nonsense.

When Blizzard makes games that are DESIGNED to be played in a way where you play them and move on, I will play them in that fashion. Plenty of companies still do. No Blizzard game since... Starcraft 2? I suppose? Has been designed in a fashion that wasn't overtly aimed at keeping you playing indeterminately. That's not a problem when it is a reasonable value proposition, such as was the case for the first half of the life of WoW or Overwatch, or even (to a much lesser degree) Hearthstone, which can still reasonably be played to SOME degree free to play. It is not the case with DI, and it is clearly not their intent moving forward.

[HansOlo]

To be fair blizzard should be a lot more fair with its practices but that's what happens when the end goal is always money over substance.

Money speaks - there are plenty of people now - who spend more than 100K ingame. That means Blizzard achieved thier goal and released a successful product. Everybody is happy - expect for freerollers.

You don't have to like it thou and you might not be the target audiance(just like i'm not playing poker).

You can play D4 when it's out - I would expect paying once and the occasional tmog store - if not - I will also join the boat of haters.

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How are delekii and I problems? You are making absolutely no sense, yet act indignant about it. You haven’t explained how youtubers are a problem, why people having opinions and voicing them is wrong, or why you take it personally when people criticise a thing you like. Take your time, think thoroughly and articulate what it is you are trying to say; because so far it’s like trying to make sense of a conspiratorial blog.

I practically answered all those question already. Read my message before you respond.

I told you - you both are the problem, you are a part of this movement, created by monetization(irony yeh)of youtube. This person can occasionally be Bellular or someone else - point is - that you - instead of quitting, hanging around and quite frankly - making no sense either.

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Im a kid from the 80s, that was 30 years ago. Blizzard is absolutely doing worse than many other companies. You repeatedly ignore evidence proving as such and then transition to strawman arguments as soon as you might need to respond to an argument with a non-garbled sentence. I assume that English isn't your first language because some of what you say just flatly doesn't make sense, but even given that caveat, some of what you say is inexcusably nonsense.

When Blizzard makes games that are DESIGNED to be played in a way where you play them and move on, I will play them in that fashion. Plenty of companies still do. No Blizzard game since... Starcraft 2? I suppose? Has been designed in a fashion that wasn't overtly aimed at keeping you playing indeterminately. That's not a problem when it is a reasonable value proposition, such as was the case for the first half of the life of WoW or Overwatch, or even (to a much lesser degree) Hearthstone, which can still reasonably be played to SOME degree free to play. It is not the case with DI, and it is clearly not their intent moving forward.

You just spend 4 lines - pointing out my english and practically said nothing.

Well done.

[Delekii]

Money speaks - there are plenty of people now - who spend more than 100K ingame. That means Blizzard achieved thier goal and released a successful product. Everybody is happy - expect for freerollers.

You don't have to like it thou and you might not be the target audiance(just like i'm not playing poker).

You can play D4 when it's out - I would expect paying once and the occasional tmog store - if not - I will also join the boat of haters.

So as long as it is their goal, it doesn't matter how disgustingly they prey on addiction, commoditise low spending players, or any other wrongdoing they might go about? They have a goal of making money, so fuck it, they're in the right?

No. Just no. Again; your hypocrisy and/or lack of self-introspection astounds. The fact that you give this behavior a pass but blacklist youtube creators who are "driven by money" is utterly laugh-worthy.

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You just spend 4 lines - pointing out my english and practically said nothing.

Well done.

Like I said earlier in the thread; the fact that you don't understand things does not mean they don't have meaning. Anyone with a thorough grasp of English will understand perfectly well what I said. You don't, but that's not my responsibility.

You made the argument that because you played Mario back in the 90s you can walk away from games that you are finished with, which entirely subverts the discussion, in that that is because Mario is DESIGNED to be finished. I gave specific examples of that, as well as examples of games that Blizzard themselves have designed in that model. I also gave examples of games designed by Blizzard monetized far less greedily, thus proving that they know exactly what it is they are doing.

The onus is on you to comprehend the language if you want to converse in it. I'm sorry you don't, but you're the one making an unevidenced argument based entirely on your feelings, in English.

[HansOlo]

So as long as it is their goal, it doesn't matter how disgustingly they prey on addiction, commoditise low spending players, or any other wrongdoing they might go about? They have a goal of making money, so fuck it, they're in the right?

No. Just no. Again; your hypocrisy and/or lack of self-introspection astounds. The fact that you give this behavior a pass but blacklist youtube creators who are "driven by money" is utterly laugh-worthy.

Who am I to judge what is disgustingly preying on addiction? And who are you? Compared to what?

That is the problem - stop critical thinking - turn off your brain and watch something that confirms you.

Well done man.

[HansOlo]

Again, if your argument is "you are monetizing being outraged!" Okay, I'm not? I don't get money for posting my opinion, one that I arrived to solely from the information available about D:I, without any need to watch "influensers". You haven't an argument, and outed yourself as someone who looks at actiblizz' shenanigans and goes "nah that's fine", but criticism from youtubers is where you draw the line. Legitimately, you are putting your hand on an oven top and complaining that it burns, the oven should stop burning. Okay, it can, turn it off and walk away?

You - instead of quitting - are entitled to have an opinion. Youtubers are earning money from you. The ethical question is - should a company with 4K workers, endless partners(including this page)lose - or should this youtuber win?

Stop it - quit the game. Move on - play something you enjoy. Nobody is forcing addiction on you. Nobody is forcing poker or cigerattes on you either.

Grow the fuck up.

[Delekii]

Who am I to judge what is disgustingly preying on addiction? And who are you? Compared to what?

That is the problem - stop critical thinking - turn off your brain and watch something that confirms you.

Well done man.

Any reasonable person can judge that; this isn't a court case. If you DON'T believe that it speaks to your competence in the argument. That's just fine by me.

[HansOlo]

Again, if your argument is "you are monetizing being outraged!" Okay, I'm not? I don't get money for posting my opinion, one that I arrived to solely from the information available about D:I, without any need to watch "influensers". You haven't an argument, and outed yourself as someone who looks at actiblizz' shenanigans and goes "nah that's fine", but criticism from youtubers is where you draw the line. Legitimately, you are putting your hand on an oven top and complaining that it burns, the oven should stop burning. Okay, it can, turn it off and walk away?



Ah, mask off I see, "stop thinking critically and just accept what I say!"

On top of "it's not preying on people if I don't judge it as such!"

They don't prey on people. I disagree.

[Delekii]

You - instead of quitting - are entitled to have an opinion. Youtubers are earning money from you. The ethical question is - should a company with 4K workers, endless partners(including this page)lose - or should this youtuber win?

Stop it - quit the game. Move on - play something you enjoy. Nobody is forcing addiction on you. Nobody is forcing poker or cigerattes on you either.

Grow the fuck up.

Again; precisely zero percent of the "extra" monetisation profit from DI is going to the "4k workers". A massive part of it is going directly to Bobby Kotick, along with all the other shareholders, as is their fiduciary responsibility. You casually ignore this fact over and over again.

The vast, vast majority of the 4k workers you discuss are on salaries.