Is it time to end gear gatekeeping?

[Stanelis1]

Honestly ever since they added mythic + the game has been a threadmill nightmare to gear and optimize for raids, and its even worst if you have the bad idea to take a break and fall behind on both rio and gear ilevel.

I really miss WoD for how gearing worked (not for the lack of content though). At least there was a clear path from ungeared to mythic and it didn t take forever to catch up, even via pick up groups.

[potis]

You are the reason Warcraft players hate raiders.

Yeah no, i know your type doesnt like hearing the truth, but people that dont engage in raiding content are literally the dum dums of WoW, you are just victims of whatever culture made you play WoW, when you had no reason to play anyway, you just did.

Its basically like if i started playing FIFA when i was a teen along with online betting, because the Greek culture is all about football and FIFA and betting about football, and complaining its shit and the FIFA game needs to change but i had the knowledge and brain to understand that anyone dealing with football in Greece is missing braincells, cause you have to be an uneducated monkey that follows its plebeian culture, to even support the Greek football teams but hey, they do.

And Blizzard as the smart company they are, found ways to keep you occupied to get your money, the same way they release a new FIFA game with 0 changes every year, and they make millions cause idiots buy it, and pay even extra afterwards.

That is your problem, not the company or the other players.

Now if you had the knowledge to accept what you are, and engaged in things without voicing an opinion, all would be well, but somehow you guys are so entitled, its insane.

Its like the other guy on here, taking 6 months to "Do all the M0 dungeons", something that you are supposed to do the first day you ding max level cause they are a joke, and the only way to gear up for the first week or two, since everything is locked.

Some of you simply cant accept, that the campaign/easy/irrelevant content as just a few hours, just because you guys do x5 or x10 to do them, and eventually run out after 5-6 months and start crying dear murder, again, not Blizzards problem.

Unsub and come back when there is more of the things you wanna do.

But yes, my raiding with my closed knit groups of the same 15-25 guys the last 8 years, clearing HC only raiding 2-4h/week, and a few more hours per week depending how fresh things are and then taking a break for 2-4 months at a time till the next patch, is the problem as to why you are bad at the game, you found the problem with raiders!

[Talon8669]

Gearing has become irrelevant in this game, at least in context to earlier expansions.
Gear in the old days of classic, used to carry a gravitas and a sense of prestige.

Now gear is just something to be discarded with each new season.
It is cheap, expendable, and is relatively easy to do for mythic raiders/plus'ers, and high end pvp'ers.

Because of this, I would assume that the majority of players in high end content are pursuing these goals because of the intrinsic fun involved in the activities, along with bonus titles and mounts.

My question is, does giving max ilvl gear to world/daily questers take away from the experience of high end players, or do they even care?

I think the answer is not to give out gear but fix the gearing process and the game overall.

[VMSmith]

The game is challenging mainly because you are forced to group in order to do stuff. The more people involved in a dungeon, the more something can go horribly wrong because of a single mistake.

That's actually not the way it typically works.

While it's true that the more people you have, the more likely there are to be errors, multiplayer games have to account for that reality and are designed to be more forgiving of errors whenever you increase the number of players involved.

Think about single player games. It's absolutely true that a single mistake in, say, Mike Tyson's Punchout will end the game right there. In single player games the onus is on the one player to perfect the mechanics and they only have to do it perfect once.

But in a multiplayer game, you cannot fail the entire group just because one player fails in some way. Consider the fact that even on Mythic you can beat a raid boss with 75% of the raid, or less, still active. Multiple people can fail over and over in a multiplayer setting because the game allows for and expects that not every player will all be perfect at the exact same time.

The challenge in multiplayer is not because you are more likely to fail, it's because you have to coordinate more than just yourself and succeed as a group. Multiplayer is actually easier for each individual player and more tolerant of individual mistakes. It takes a collection of mistakes to reach a fail state in a group game.

[facefist]

'Better at the game'

What game? The one that allows kids or youtubers to play 24/7 in raid guilds?

There are like a thousand of you (was one until SoO).

You don't have any legitimate say in the remaining 95% of the game.

Now go away. Junior. The adults want to talk in peace.

Yeah, adults get butthurt when a random person in internet says something that implies they aren't a good video game player. The reason you don't have as good gear as someone else is that you aren't as good as they are - not that they play 24/7. Thats just something you want to believe in to make yourself feel better.

Now go work on your self-esteem so you don't need to get butthurt in the internet.

[neescher]

spare me the condescension, this game isn't challenging even at its most difficult. If you think otherwise maybe you aren't cut out for it.

So, when 20 of the best people in the world do nothing except raiding for 10+ days straight, 16+ hours a day, before they kill the boss, it's not challenging?
When literally months after a raid's release, only ~400 guilds world wide have killed the boss, it's not challenging?

Maybe the world just isn't cut out for it. Everyone's too bad for this piss easy content.

[Jinpachi]

So, when 20 of the best people in the world do nothing except raiding for 10+ days straight, 16+ hours a day, before they kill the boss, it's not challenging?
When literally months after a raid's release, only ~400 guilds world wide have killed the boss, it's not challenging?

Maybe the world just isn't cut out for it. Everyone's too bad for this piss easy content.

Pretty much. They do it for money. Nobody is sinking that kind of time and effort into anything without a payout. Like I said in my original post. Learn the patterns, don't stand in the fire, pew pew boss. It's NOT difficult. It's just a waste of time for the vast majority of people who played the game.

- - - Updated - - -

This level of performative bluster never ceases to amuse me. Are you not concerned at beclowning yourself by making such objectively ridiculous statements? Of course the game is challenging; that's why so very few people reach the highest level of accomplishment. If this isn't challenging, what would be -- a game that no one at all can complete?

Anyone CAN complete it. There are just those who choose not to take the time to.

[Osmeric]

Anyone CAN complete it. There are just those who choose not to take the time to.

You don't seem to have much of a grasp on people. No, that's not true at all.

[panasc]

That's why i stopped caring about gear and ilvl and i am focusing on farming mounts.

Mounts remain relevant through out all expantions are account wide and we tend to use them all the time.

Dispite gear which are only relevant for one season and only useable from one character.

[ohwell]

Max level gear for world quests would hurt nothing but the fragile egos of the "elite" that feel you need to "earn" the privilege to wear that gear, they seem to think everyone looks up to them because they no life dungeons on mythic, but reality is no one cares and no one ever will care what they have earned except their small group of fragile ego friends. I hope that answers your question.

I will assume though that one of the "elite" I was talking about will pretend to be a normal player and say they look up to those players but what can you do /shrug.

Only ones who have their fragile egos hurt are the ones who keep demanding max level gear for world quests. It's funny how much you're projecting because if it means so little, you shouldn't want it that bad. So instead you're so fragile about being unable to obtain it that you have to act like someone else is.

[chiddie]

That's actually not the way it typically works.

While it's true that the more people you have, the more likely there are to be errors, multiplayer games have to account for that reality and are designed to be more forgiving of errors whenever you increase the number of players involved.

Think about single player games. It's absolutely true that a single mistake in, say, Mike Tyson's Punchout will end the game right there. In single player games the onus is on the one player to perfect the mechanics and they only have to do it perfect once.

But in a multiplayer game, you cannot fail the entire group just because one player fails in some way. Consider the fact that even on Mythic you can beat a raid boss with 75% of the raid, or less, still active. Multiple people can fail over and over in a multiplayer setting because the game allows for and expects that not every player will all be perfect at the exact same time.

The challenge in multiplayer is not because you are more likely to fail, it's because you have to coordinate more than just yourself and succeed as a group. Multiplayer is actually easier for each individual player and more tolerant of individual mistakes. It takes a collection of mistakes to reach a fail state in a group game.

Apart from few exceptions, single player games are quite forgiving too nowadays and the plus is you don’t have to rely on others.

I pugged a lot of M+ in the last 3 years and I don’t recall them being THAT forgiving honestly, unless you vastly outgear them.

But it’s probably just me not standing multiplayer anymore.

[VMSmith]

I pugged a lot of M+ in the last 3 years and I don’t recall them being THAT forgiving honestly, unless you vastly outgear them.

I don't mean forgiving in the sense of "easy", I mean forgiving in the sense that many members of the group can screw up and still succeed. It takes many screw-ups to get to a point where an M+ is a failure. That's the whole point of the death counter reducing the time available for the run, it lets the group fail a good number of times before there's no beating the timer. Contrast that with some Mage Tower encounters where missing a single skill-check can end the entire run.

In single-player games/content you typically fail once and have to start over. There is no forgiveness. You mention current games being more forgiving, but that tends to depend on your difficulty setting. And some games, like Dark Souls and such, are brutally unforgiving and demand mastery of a mechanic to continue.

It works this way mostly because developers have to consider that a group of players will potentially have wildly varying abilities amongst themselves so it can't be too easy for the best player nor too hard for the weakest player. It's also because in a group if one person is continually failing a check and the game punishes the group too harshly for that one failure then everybody else is being punished for one person's inability to improve. In a single-player setting that player is only harming themselves if they refuse or are unable to grasp the mechanic.

It would be best to say that singleplayer content is more challenging in a sense of skill and personal ability and group content is more challenging in a sense of organization. But group content is always more forgiving towards each individual player because it has to be.

[neescher]

Anyone CAN complete it. There are just those who choose not to take the time to.

Just like anyone CAN run 100m in under 10 seconds. Most people just don't take time to do it. Right?

[Caerrona]

Pretty much. They do it for money. Nobody is sinking that kind of time and effort into anything without a payout. Like I said in my original post. Learn the patterns, don't stand in the fire, pew pew boss. It's NOT difficult. It's just a waste of time for the vast majority of people who played the game.

- - - Updated - - -



Anyone CAN complete it. There are just those who choose not to take the time to.

I don't think I have ever been 100% sure that someone is complete dogshit at the game until I read this clowns posts.

Like I've been 99% sure you know people like revenanthero and shadowpunk are absolute trash but maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe not, that 1% chance they are completely delusional but play decently, this guy though holy hell.

[potis]

I don't think I have ever been 100% sure that someone is complete dogshit at the game until I read this clowns posts.

Like I've been 99% sure you know people like revenanthero and shadowpunk are absolute trash but maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe not, that 1% chance they are completely delusional but play decently, this guy though holy hell.

Its delusion.

Whats easier to say to yourself

"I am terrible at one more thing i am doing, despite doing it for a decade" or

"There are other variables that i dont complete, that must be it, i am not shit, everyone else raiding must be rich and play 24/7!, they never do anything else!"

This is what is going on with these guys.

At some point you wonder.."Are they that low skilled or are they trolling?" then you have someone posting

"I died multiple times while doing dailies in Korthia with my 206 item level character and it took hours, this is why i play Classic, game too hard", when the same day you did the same dailies on a just dinged 150 ilvl character, it just took 1 hour by playing carefully versus my main that takes 6 mins cleaving 20 mobs at a time down.

And a few other golden posts that expose them as to being purely terrible at the game and nothing else, they are so disconnected from -actually playing even 5% correctly- that you cant take them seriously, cause they are so terribly terrible that you cant comprehend that they arent trolling, they are actually THAT terrible at the game.

[Caerrona]

Its delusion.

Whats easier to say to yourself

"I am terrible at one more thing i am doing, despite doing it for a decade" or

"There are other variables that i dont complete, that must be it, i am not shit, everyone else raiding must be rich and play 24/7!, they never do anything else!"

This is what is going on with these guys.

At some point you wonder.."Are they that low skilled or are they trolling?" then you have someone posting

"I died multiple times while doing dailies in Korthia with my 206 item level character and it took hours, this is why i play Classic, game too hard", when the same day you did the same dailies on a just dinged 150 ilvl character, it just took 1 hour by playing carefully versus my main that takes 6 mins cleaving 20 mobs at a time down.

Blizzard needs to add mage tower challenges to unlock content. The biggest problem is thestruggle. doesn't tell them they are bad. A purely garbage player can hit 275 and get carried to ksh.

Here's an idea

Mage tower tuned at 25% = m+ 1-5 unlock and normal raid.

Mage tower tuned at 50% = m+ 6-10 unlock.

Mage tower tuned at 75% = m+ 11-15 unlock and heroic raid.

Mage tower tuned at 100% = m+ 16 - infinity unlock and mythic raid.

People will then stay in their lane and stfu.

[neescher]

Blizzard needs to add mage tower challenges to unlock content. The biggest problem is thestruggle. doesn't tell them they are bad. A purely garbage player can hit 275 and get carried to ksh.

Here's an idea

Mage tower tuned at 25% = m+ 1-5 unlock and normal raid.

Mage tower tuned at 50% = m+ 6-10 unlock.

Mage tower tuned at 75% = m+ 11-15 unlock and heroic raid.

Mage tower tuned at 100% = m+ 16 - infinity unlock and mythic raid.

People will then stay in their lane and stfu.

Didn't we have something similar with Proving Grounds? Wasn't some content (heroic/mythic dungeons?) locked behind Proving Grounds at some point?

[Twdft]

Blizzard needs to add mage tower challenges to unlock content. The biggest problem is thestruggle. doesn't tell them they are bad. A purely garbage player can hit 275 and get carried to ksh.

Here's an idea

Mage tower tuned at 25% = m+ 1-5 unlock and normal raid.

Mage tower tuned at 50% = m+ 6-10 unlock.

Mage tower tuned at 75% = m+ 11-15 unlock and heroic raid.

Mage tower tuned at 100% = m+ 16 - infinity unlock and mythic raid.

People will then stay in their lane and stfu.

You were not around back in MoP when heroic automatchmaking dungeons were hidden behind proving grounds silver? Otherwise you'd know that your idea will not work and that Blizzard knows it doesn't work.

[Osmeric]

You were not around back in MoP when heroic automatchmaking dungeons were hidden behind proving grounds silver? Otherwise you'd know that your idea will not work and that Blizzard knows it doesn't work.

I know at least one person who quit WoW permanently due to Proving Grounds. I suspect there were many more.

[Soikona]

Yeah, adults get butthurt when a random person in internet says something that implies they aren't a good video game player. The reason you don't have as good gear as someone else is that you aren't as good as they are - not that they play 24/7. Thats just something you want to believe in to make yourself feel better.

Now go work on your self-esteem so you don't need to get butthurt in the internet.

Or just luck. My ret pally never got OWS trinket until the last week of SoD, and never got the weapon from KT. Massive bumps in damage.