Why is Diablo Immortal hated but not Hearthstone?

[Blackcoffin]

If you aren't doing anything illegal, you should be able to do any business model. If I wanna sell a bag of dog poop for 10 000 dollars, I should be able to. If you wanna buy that, feel free, but don't come crying if you do, we are all adults here living in the free world (most of us that is, speaking for western countries).

And we had this discussion before, I don't consider addiction a disease, so catering to addicts is fine, it's your personal responsibility to not give in to your addictions.

Selling or buying a bag of dogpoop has nothing to do with exploitation. And whether you consider addiction a desease, just reaffirms your ignorance. Take a class in psychological pathology, you come off as deluded, sorry to say. Legislating against predatory monetization is a thing, because it exploits human behaviour - Diablo Immortal even more so than other games. Legal does not equal moral.

[Zardas]

There is no max level, it's unlimited, think some Necromancers are even higher. No, it's not concerning, why would it be?

I thought that it meant that only one player one your server was level max, which would have been concerning about the population of the game.

But doesn't the fact that there is no level max means that it's even harder to compete against whales as a new f2p ? I'm assuming that leveling improve your stats so you need to grind to compete if you want to climb (which is precisely what you were criticizing in Hearthstone in this very thread (even if we proved you that it was not the case for Hearthstone, and I guess you've admitted it since you've given up on that part)).

[deenman]

A F2P might not get a 5 star awakened gem, but neither does he need one to be fairly equal. He might not be 100% equal, but closer to 100% than 1% like you think.

a f2p player wont get any 5 star gem,let alone awaken,and...do you even know what that process does?its not an exageration saying if your f2p going against a fully upgraded player you are 1% of their power,also you seem to be obsessed with the idea that so what not everyone will have a FULL set of maxed awakened gem slots,well sure but as f2p you arent even at 1/10 of the starting process for ONE GEM

srsly how are you not banned for trolling yett?

[Beefhammer]

That's what every discussion about Immortal comes to in the end.

No matter what, people who defend this game gets called "wrong", "idiot", "liar", "delusional" and also far worse words I don't wanna write here.

I never in my life seen a game, nor anything really, that has gotten so much hate as Immortal, and unjustified hate as well. You guys have decided to hate this, no matter what. That's how the world works now, people take sides and it's all so extreme there is no middle ground. Both in gaming and IRL. EVERYTHING is you either HATE or LOVE it, nothing can possibly be in between.

I don't know who to blame, whether it's just our time and culture, or if it's streamers etc, but this game has really showed the worst in people. All the things in Immortal that are objectively good, like the controls, aestetics/zone design, sound/music/voice acting, monster/boss visual design, dungeon design etc, are completely disregarded due to the monetization system.

It's such irony that the only thing that's bad is the most non-mandatory thing as well. JUST DON'T BUY anything, like me. I played this game almost 6 hours daily since release and haven't spent a cent on it, cause I see and enjoy the good parts.

Everything in life has bad aspect. Should we stop using forks and knives cause we could hurt ourselves with them if we wanted? Should we stop drinking coffee cause we can scald ourself if we decide to pour the coffee on ourselves?

I can come up with 100 riddicilous things you can do with every-day things if we chose to, just like it's riddicilous to pay in Diablo Immortal when we don't have to. Just use Immortal the right way, the free way. The free product is freaking amazing.

You guys? You don't know me and most if my posts about DI have been about my positive experience as a free player. That doesn't make me blind to the heavily predatory monetization or the BS that is the legendary gem and awakening systems.

[Ielenia]

That's what every discussion about Immortal comes to in the end.

No matter what, people who defend this game gets called "wrong", "idiot", "liar", "delusional" and also far worse words I don't wanna write here.

Because you're doing your absolute best to "defend" Diablo: Immortal the wrong way. You're not trying to prop up D:I. You're trying to beat down Hearthstone to the same level as D:I. Instead of trying to clean up D:I's public image, you instead are doing your best to stain Hearthstone's image.

In fact, you've done absolutely nothing to improve the public's perception of Diablo: Immortal. You have just used "whataboutism" repeatedly in your attempts to tear down Hearthstone. And using false information, no less, against Hearthstone.

I don't know who to blame, whether it's just our time and culture, or if it's streamers etc, but this game has really showed the worst in people. All the things in Immortal that are objectively good, like the controls, aestetics/zone design, sound/music/voice acting, monster/boss visual design, dungeon design etc, are completely disregarded due to the monetization system.

And none of that is in question when people badmouth D:I. They specifically badmouth D:I's predatory microtransaction schemes.

[Battlebeard]

I thought that it meant that only one player one your server was level max, which would have been concerning about the population of the game.

But doesn't the fact that there is no level max means that it's even harder to compete against whales as a new f2p ? I'm assuming that leveling improve your stats so you need to grind to compete if you want to climb (which is precisely what you were criticizing in Hearthstone in this very thread (even if we proved you that it was not the case for Hearthstone, and I guess you've admitted it since you've given up on that part)).

By "level" i mean challenge rift level, not player level.

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a f2p player wont get any 5 star gem,let alone awaken,and...do you even know what that process does?its not an exageration saying if your f2p going against a fully upgraded player you are 1% of their power,also you seem to be obsessed with the idea that so what not everyone will have a FULL set of maxed awakened gem slots,well sure but as f2p you arent even at 1/10 of the starting process for ONE GEM

srsly how are you not banned for trolling yett?

I have been a member for 10 years, and I never once trolled, I just have a different opinion than you, you gotta realize not everyone think like you. You can't go around flaming and fake-reporting everyone with a different opinion.

I love Diablo Immortal and I think the P2W system is just fine, that is my OPINION!

Even the guy who spent 80k dollars isn't 99% stronger than F2P players, you obviously don't play the game. I even checked his leaderboards, he's not THAT dominating.

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Because you're doing your absolute best to "defend" Diablo: Immortal the wrong way. You're not trying to prop up D:I. You're trying to beat down Hearthstone to the same level as D:I. Instead of trying to clean up D:I's public image, you instead are doing your best to stain Hearthstone's image.

In fact, you've done absolutely nothing to improve the public's perception of Diablo: Immortal. You have just used "whataboutism" repeatedly in your attempts to tear down Hearthstone. And using false information, no less, against Hearthstone.


And none of that is in question when people badmouth D:I. They specifically badmouth D:I's predatory microtransaction schemes.

I don't dislike HS, I don't think HS is doing anything wrong really, I'm just saying the games are more alike than most people give them credit for.

And I multiple times said all the awesome stuff abour Immortal.

[Ielenia]

I don't dislike HS, I don't think HS is doing anything wrong really, I'm just saying the games are more alike than most people give them credit for.

And you're wrong in that regard. They're not "more alike" the way you think they are, and everyone here has explained that to you. Again, you keep trying to tear down Hearthstone with demonstrably false information to make it "equal" to D:I.

And I multiple times said all the awesome stuff abour Immortal.

All that "awesome stuff" you mentioned does nothing to debunk or even alleviate the fact that D:I's microtransactions are a mess and very predatory. Because, again: none of that (gameplay, graphics, sound, etc) is in question, here. What is in question is the predatory microtransactions that exist in D:I.

[Battlebeard]

And you're wrong in that regard. They're not "more alike" the way you think they are, and everyone here has explained that to you. Again, you keep trying to tear down Hearthstone with demonstrably false information to make it "equal" to D:I.


All that "awesome stuff" you mentioned does nothing to debunk or even alleviate the fact that D:I's microtransactions are a mess and very predatory. Because, again: none of that (gameplay, graphics, sound, etc) is in question, here. What is in question is the predatory microtransactions that exist in D:I.

My point is to ignore the microtransactions and enjoy the free game, it's super easy to do, I do it, and I love the game. And that it's harder to enjoy the microtransactions in Hearthstones, because cards are sorta locked behind it and that's a big part of HS, while the only thing locked behind mtx in Immortal is leaderboard placements, which is a very minor thing.

[Ielenia]

My point is to ignore the microtransactions and enjoy the free game, it's super easy to do, I do it, and I love the game. And that it's harder to enjoy the microtransactions in Hearthstones, because cards are sorta locked behind it and that's a big part of HS, while the only thing locked behind mtx in Immortal is leaderboard placements, which is a very minor thing.

When you say stuff like this:

[Hearthstone] is P2W, just like Diablo Immortal,

You're spreading false information because you're equating both as "being the same", when they're not. Their monetization is very different.

And you're, again, wrong, by saying

cards are sorta locked behind [microtransaction]

They are not. All cards are available to be acquired throughout the various non-paid ways, from crafting them with dust, acquiring them with arena runs, brawls, etc., and you can even buy card packs with gold.

The only cards not available to you are the 'diamond' cards, but those are no different from any other card, just have a different animation on the card.

[Battlebeard]

When you say stuff like this:

You're spreading false information because you're equating both as "being the same", when they're not. Their monetization is very different.

And you're, again, wrong, by saying

They are not. All cards are available to be acquired throughout the various non-paid ways, from crafting them with dust, acquiring them with arena runs, brawls, etc., and you can even buy card packs with gold.

The only cards not available to you are the 'diamond' cards, but those are no different from any other card, just have a different animation on the card.

I guess we have different definitions of P2W. I think P2W can exist even if it's not mandatory. A game where certain items are ONLY accessible if you pay is certainly P2W, I think we agree. But games where you can speed it up and make it easier/faster by paying, like buying packs in HS, is ALSO very much P2W in my book.

[deenman]

I guess we have different definitions of P2W. I think P2W can exist even if it's not mandatory. A game where certain items are ONLY accessible if you pay is certainly P2W, I think we agree. But games where you can speed it up and make it easier/faster by paying, like buying packs in HS, is ALSO very much P2W in my book.

Dude no1 is denying hearthstne and diablo immoral are BOTH p2w,we are arguing that you saying they are even in the same MULTIVERSE of similar degree is batshit insane

[Battlebeard]

Dude no1 is denying hearthstne and diablo immoral are BOTH p2w,we are arguing that you saying they are even in the same MULTIVERSE of similar degree is batshit insane

That's your opinion, I obviously disagree

[Ielenia]

I guess we have different definitions of P2W. I think P2W can exist even if it's not mandatory.

You're arguing a strawman that no one here but you is making. You keep equating both D:I and HS as being "the same" because of microtransactions, and everyone else here is telling you that no, they're not the same, because the level of microtransactions of both games are vastly different.

You're seeing it as "black and white". If it's not black, then it's white. While everyone here is telling you "dude, there are a myriad of shades of grey between 'black' and 'white'."

[deenman]

That's your opinion, I obviously disagree

wait what?you disagree that the p2w degree is different in those 2 games??dude...nope...im reporting you for trolling until you get banned,no way your ass doesnt fall under OBVIOUS trolling

[Battlebeard]

wait what?you disagree that the p2w degree is different in those 2 games??dude...nope...im reporting you for trolling until you get banned,no way your ass doesnt fall under OBVIOUS trolling

Go ahead, I haven't broken any rules of the forum, I am calmly explaining to you my opinions and I am not trolling. I don't see a difference between P2W and P2W. Yes, there is a difference in the degree, but it's to me irrelevant in this discussion about principles.

[Zardas]

That's your opinion, I obviously disagree

You NEED to spend thousands of money to get even one geared up character in Diablo Immortal. You can totally get all the cards for free in Hearthstone. Those are not opinions, those are facts.

You keep on lying again and again, from "I don't care about the leaderboard" to "I got top 3" ; from "I've been playing 15 hearthstone games per month" to "I don't even know what the core set is". And yet you somehow keep wondering why are people calling you a troll.

[Jester Joe]

Despite being the only activity around this sub forum, this is just going in circles at this point and escalating so I'm going to close this here before it just gets any worse.