World of Warcraft: Dragonflight - Professions Preview

[AcidicSyn]

Naturally, but then the player could start offering a payment after they've completed it or whatever. The point is that these type of hoops someone has to jump through make items harder to obtain in ways that are more interesting than merely using mats with a low drop rate.

It does make it interesting. Though I think the end result would just be seen as a punishment for solo players.

[Iain]

You can think of individual professionists to party up together and take turns at the high-end challenges that require groups. Got to be creative.

[Toby451]

This all seems needlessly complicated.

Cant have depth if the water is ankle deep.

[w0nderd0g]

Honestly, I'm not convinced.

Feels suspiciously like titan-forging via the back door, and horrendously overcomplex. Just like titanforging, crafting/buying anything less than top stats is going to feel like you're losing out, rather than higher than base feeling like a bonus.

I'm all for keeping crafting relevant througout an expansion, and making the gameplay a bit deeper, and heroic/mythic level gear being craftable with a buying players BOP gathered mats etc is great, but crafting needs to be limited via a crafter cool-down in some way (one item per 24 hours), rather than just high level material availability, otherwise the first person to power level it is going to basically corner the market, as people are going to through extra gold at the "best" items possible, rather than be happy with an inferior item.

Also - the random ilvl variation is just messy. Random bonuses for the crafter should be static or procced cooldownss on the delay between high level item crafting, or free return of some/all mats to the crafter, or duplicate items, or how about the ability to build up charges which can be used to craft multiple items back to back perhaps (e.g. master crafters could build up their multiple crafting charges and can then use them back to back as needed, whereas novices can only craft one high level item before they need to recharge).

Not to mention the current work order system is likely to be botted into pointless oblivion in basically no time, leading to a race to the bottom on tips value.

Basically - this needs a LOT of work to not be horribly broken on launch.

[FelPlague]

That's the beauty, you don't have to. That makes the items that are crafted this way more scarce.

except you do, because your in a raid group and either you ask and people say no and you quit the raid, or the raid forces you all to do it which is annoying as fuck


no
fuck
that

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What a bag of shit if that is true. So raiders now just get the best gear from drops and crafting? Is this just for smithing and what not or will my enchants be worse compared to a raider? Will they get +40 Spell power while mine will be +20 for example?

Dude you would have hated vanilla and tbc and wotlk and cata and mop and...

i remember back when one of the best enchants came from killing yog sarron, so if you wanted to make that enchant you needed to go kill yogsarron.

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Not to mention the current work order system is likely to be botted into pointless oblivion in basically no time, leading to a race to the bottom on tips value.

Basically - this needs a LOT of work to not be horribly broken on launch.

Do you think the current Ah is botted into pointless oblivion?
cause this is literally just the AH but "Hey something i want is not on the Ah, can somone make it for me?"
How would botting break this, if it hasent already broken the Ah to the point of everything selling for copper?

[Deadite]

Dude you would have hated vanilla and tbc and wotlk and cata and mop and...

i remember back when one of the best enchants came from killing yog sarron, so if you wanted to make that enchant you needed to go kill yogsarron.

How is this the same? You could get some fanny to do it for you since they all still used the same mats and you could buy those from the AH. Now you can't even get the same shit to make the best stuff nor buy the stuff to make it yourself unless you raid by the sounds of things.

[w0nderd0g]

Do you think the current Ah is botted into pointless oblivion?
cause this is literally just the AH but "Hey something i want is not on the Ah, can somone make it for me?"
How would botting break this, if it hasent already broken the Ah to the point of everything selling for copper?

Very different issue - the AH is already hit by material buying/selling bots that will immediatly purchase any items being listed at below vendor sale value, or any item that falls below a specific sale price at which they can be converted into more valuable items via milling/exlixer crafting etc (e.g. ore, herbs etc). Have a look at the buy price of materials for elixers vs the cost of the elixers on the AH of any large server to see what I mean - they are pegged practically 1:1. It's not about everything having no value - its about there being no value to extract by buying materials and then crafting with them currently.

Additionally, the proposed work order crafting system is "free" to the crafter. All thats needed to make it basically worthless as a gold generating mechanism for human players is to write a bot which scans for work orders where the buyer provides all mats, and accepts/crafts them. Even if the offered tip is 1g, or 50s, or 1c, the bot will happily take the money and do the job - driving the market into the ground for crafters. The ONLY way that isnt viable is by limiting daily crafts per crafter of desirable higher level items, so that one bot can't hoover up all the available work (while simultaneously levelling itself up).

What I'm saying is that without controls on volume and automation its economically ass backwards and will result in a race to the bottom on crafting fees, which will be won by the bots, at which point why bother with player driven crafting at all just add a bunch of NPC crafters instead...

[FelPlague]

Very different issue - the AH is already hit by material buying/selling bots that will immediatly purchase any items being listed at below vendor sale value, or any item that falls below a specific sale price at which they can be converted into more valuable items via milling/exlixer crafting etc (e.g. ore, herbs etc)..

lol you are talking mad shit.
1- this is false, because they are not "bots" they are players using addons that let them scan the Ah for such, its not bots, its players.
2- this isnt even real, because i use TSM, an addon that lets you scan the Ah for items that sell for lower then their vendor price, and it is something i do every day as its a nice way to make some passive gold, the exact same is CONSTANTLY done using TSm and similar addons with crafting stuff, none of this is bots, bots don't do that shit cause it is EXTREMLY open for errors, and if it errors out, they lose millions, and it is easily traceable. all it takes is someone listing an item for sale for waaaaay more then anyone would buy it for, and bots would buy items used to craft it, craft it, then put it on ah, and lose insane amounts of gold. that is not how it works.
3- you seem to contribute players actions to bots, because you just don't understand how the market works.

[Kuntantee]

Garbage system.

[k0nker]

FF14 didnt require you to raid to take part in a meaningful way. Its like blizzard missed the most key part: make it relevent even if you arent a raider.

Comparing this to the FFXIV system is very disgenuine. Very little RNG in the FFXIV system and the end product is itself not a product of RNG. Its only comparable if you know little of either system and just skimmed over how they work.

I hard agree that Blizz has a looooong way to go to make crafting not as trash as it has been. However I do stand by my statement that they are making it a smidge like FFXIV crafting, and I don't only have a little knowledge of the crafting systems of each game.

Adding in gear and quality control mechanics is at least hinting at the FFXIV crafting system. If they can make it even 10% of what SE does, I'll be happy. If so, I'd gladly be an omnicrafter in WoW, too.

[Toppy]

I hard agree that Blizz has a looooong way to go to make crafting not as trash as it has been. However I do stand by my statement that they are making it a smidge like FFXIV crafting, and I don't only have a little knowledge of the crafting systems of each game.

Adding in gear and quality control mechanics is at least hinting at the FFXIV crafting system. If they can make it even 10% of what SE does, I'll be happy. If so, I'd gladly be an omnicrafter in WoW, too.

To bad, you need to "specialize"

[Celement]

To bad, you need to "specialize"

On large servers it wont matter from a buyers perspective and on small servers the end game is so utterly dead it wont matter.

Hell if I recall right they are making the ah regional specializing isn't going to offset the players filling orders for 1c.

Add to that the lower versions are going to be considered worthless beyond getting alts into queued content ( as we have seen from leggos).

This is such a garbage pointlessly complex system. Just let boes drop from raids and mythic plus and leave crafting dead.

[Echo of Soul]

Depends on what you consider "high quality gear".

If you're talking about Mythic, then no, you need to run mythic raids/M+ in order to get gear on that level crafted as you'll need to provide the crafter (or yourself) with the bop mythic mats.

If you mean on the level of normal raids then yes, you can. As you will be able to farm the bop mats for that tier out in "dangerous areas of the world".

Thank you. I won't be playing this expansion if that's the case. Normal mode gear is garbage and if I can't work towards something better than that without premade group content I might as well stick with FFXIV (even if I'd rather be playing WoW) where that possibility exists.

[Lplatehealer]

Honestly, I would prefer no alpha or beta so I can make my own mind up about the game when it releases. Rather than half a year of content creators bitching and giving feedback about shit that will never change.

lol, imagine thinking youtubers or streamers actually giving bug reports or feedback. They are just free advertisement for Blizz and they just play for views, they do not actually care

[panda040]

Seems interesting enough for me to dabble in, but I suspect that like every other expac alchemy/herbalism will continue to be the gold maker as the demand for potions/phials never ends. It would be interesting if there is a new demand for "phials that make you craft faster/increase your luck/production".

[Wangming]

Also - the random ilvl variation is just messy. Random bonuses for the crafter should be static or procced cooldownss on the delay between high level item crafting, or free return of some/all mats to the crafter, or duplicate items, or how about the ability to build up charges which can be used to craft multiple items back to back perhaps (e.g. master crafters could build up their multiple crafting charges and can then use them back to back as needed, whereas novices can only craft one high level item before they need to recharge).

Yes. I hate to bring up FFXIV again, but there you use abilities you get from leveling your professions to get things like increased quality or double resources when gathering and so on. Having multiple percentage based RNG abilities accomplishes nothing besides extending the time it takes for you to get the item you actually want.

It's like everything they do is to waste player time because they don't have enough trust in their own systems that people will engage with them just for fun and they don't have enough things to actually do, so they make everything a bigger hassle than it needs to be.

[Rageonit]

Yes. I hate to bring up FFXIV again, but there you use abilities you get from leveling your professions to get things like increased quality or double resources when gathering and so on. Having multiple percentage based RNG abilities accomplishes nothing besides extending the time it takes for you to get the item you actually want.

It's like everything they do is to waste player time because they don't have enough trust in their own systems that people will engage with them just for fun and they don't have enough things to actually do, so they make everything a bigger hassle than it needs to be.

Did you miss the part where they specifically say luck is never needed to craft the best items? But you'll have to have the proper skill bonuses/use additional reagents. You can rely on luck if you want to, but you don't have to. Quote:

On top of that, you would either need to get lucky with Inspiration or use a valuable Finishing Reagent that boosts skill to guarantee the item is crafted at top quality. In other words, it will take the contribution of many skilled crafters and gatherers, as well as some luck or extra resources to make those best items at the highest quality.

The goal here is to make sure crafting the best of the best, or having it crafted for you, will be no small feat, and one to be proud of. We also want to emphasize that you will never need to rely on luck. Luck can be of much help to you if you want to focus on Inspiration, but it’s never necessary.

[Niwes]

these ppl just CAN NOT do things without that typical useless Blizzard complexity in it.

it seems they need to implement „systems“ now into professions, since they try not to build new „systems“ for player progress and player power this time (thx god).

As the good ol‘ Menethil once said: „There must always be a system!“

[Wangming]

Did you miss the part where they specifically say luck is never needed to craft the best items? But you'll have to have the proper skill bonuses/use additional reagents. You can rely on luck if you want to, but you don't have to. Quote:

Oh I'm sure it will be 100% like that and not Diablo Immortal's: "You can't get better gear with money, but we don't consider legendary gems gear, so pay up". These fuckers just love their Obi-Wan Kenobi style. 'Certain point of view' truths.

[Rageonit]

Oh I'm sure it will be 100% like that and not Diablo Immortal's: "You can't get better gear with money, but we don't consider legendary gems gear, so pay up". These fuckers just love their Obi-Wan Kenobi style. 'Certain point of view' truths.

Sorry, but I have zero interest in discussing speculations or turning this into another "Is WoW becoming p2w?" asinine thread. The article says what it says, and that's what I'm discussing - and it says clearly luck is not NEEDED, so it kinda invalidates your point about multiple percentage based RNG.