New U.S. Political Party Being Formed - Forward, Aimed at Moderates on Both Sides

[Huehuecoyotl]

Okay let's compare maps, here's mine:



Do you know where Norway is?

Ah, so by your definition Norway and Germany aren't considered to be Western nations. But Morocco and Liberia are. Always handy to get an insight into the "thinking" that leads to your conclusions. Thanks for that.

[PC2]

Ah, so by your definition Norway and Germany aren't considered to be Western nations. But Morocco and Liberia are. Always handy to get an insight into the "thinking" that leads to your conclusions. Thanks for that.

Eh, The West is about our shared cultural roots and influences, where as a hemisphere is about geography and splitting the globe in half, imo.

[Shadowferal]

Eh, The West is about our shared cultural roots and influences, where as a hemisphere is about geography and splitting the globe in half, imo.

You mean you were wrong ..again.
Nothing to see here folks. Just the usual.

[Captain N]

How about we get an actual left-wing party in the US instead?

We'd first have to convince 75% of our population that folks like Bernie Sanders aren't radical first. The US is so uneducated when it comes to political alignment they think anything left of Trump is a socialist.

[Endus]

I would say manipulated before I would say uneducated. Keeping education down is part of the manipulation by those in power.

but yeah, you're right

Yeah, it's not a case of just flat ignorance. Americans are very carefully indoctrinated into the idea that "socialism is BAD". Even though if you ask literally any of them to explain why, they'll end up describing capitalism to you.

Hand-waving this away as "not knowing any better" does Americans a disservice, and an undeserved pass to the propgandists.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Yeah, it's not a case of just flat ignorance. Americans are very carefully indoctrinated into the idea that "socialism is BAD". Even though if you ask literally any of them to explain why, they'll end up describing capitalism to you.

Hand-waving this away as "not knowing any better" does Americans a disservice, and an undeserved pass to the propgandists.

The same people that denounce the evils of socialism are those using GoFundMe or their equivalent when they get into trouble. One day I'd love for them to explain to me the difference between that and socialism. I'd just be keen to know how they reconcile it in their minds.

[Muzjhath]

How about we get an actual left-wing party in the US instead?

So, you do. But I've said this a tonne of times. Doing it from the top down is the wrong way, and always has been, to go about it.
City, County, State, Federal. That's how the actual left in the US might get a voice

We'd first have to convince 75% of our population that folks like Bernie Sanders aren't radical first. The US is so uneducated when it comes to political alignment they think anything left of Trump is a socialist.

See above, if you actually want that work on the local level for local solutions so that the reality of it can kill the manipulations of it.

[Captain N]

So, you do. But I've said this a tonne of times. Doing it from the top down is the wrong way, and always has been, to go about it.
City, County, State, Federal. That's how the actual left in the US might get a voice

See above, if you actually want that work on the local level for local solutions so that the reality of it can kill the manipulations of it.

I don't disagree with the fixing it at the local level. Being in two very blue states there's access to a lot of things currently that the red states don't have. Unfortunately we're seeing the Republicans at the federal level wanting to pass legislation that pushes their nonsense onto blue states. A federal abortion ban and a federal ban on gay marriage is on the horizon and that's what needs to be stopped -- and the only way to do that is with an actual left-wing party at the top.

[Endus]

So, you do. But I've said this a tonne of times. Doing it from the top down is the wrong way, and always has been, to go about it.
City, County, State, Federal. That's how the actual left in the US might get a voice

See above, if you actually want that work on the local level for local solutions so that the reality of it can kill the manipulations of it.

I'd argue it's more complicated than that. At the local level, you can do a lot, but once you hit county and above, especially State, you start needing a larger framework to tie into. Voting for that really good local city councillor who doesn't have a party is one thing, but doing the same at the State level nearly never happens. So to drive that success at the local level, you also arguably need that State/National party framework to stand within, and building all that on the hopes of achieving something is a massive barrier to overcome.

Sticking to just the local level means you never get to upper levels, because you end up with a bunch of mavericks who got into politics to do what they thought was right, not a party platform.

Sticking to the national level means you Ross Perot the election. At best.

And trying to do both doesn't mean you've got much of a prayer, either; see the current Libertarians.

What it may take is a concerted State-level fight, which is small enough to succeed with limited investment, and then expanding from State-level success to a national scope. That's basically how the NDP did it, here in Canada, with Tommy Douglas, and particularly his implementation of universal health care for Saskatchewan without any federal mandate; Douglas' successful implementation caused everyone to pay attention and brought about national overhaul. A State like California has the potential to do the same in the USA, they just can't be arsed to.

[Paranoid Android]

Ugh!

First I read the WAPO post and his reasons. So Yang gave these examples; 1) Stated the far left wants to confiscate all guns. Umm, sure the far left, but the far left don't control the effin Dem party. They barely have a say. I know some of you will say we don't even have a far left. Sure. Point is they have no political power. 2) Says most Americans don't agree with far left upending our economy and way of life over Climate Change. Besides the far left bs, you do understand that Climate Change itself will upend our economy and way of life. We are doing nothing or so little right now, it's frightening. I could really rant here how climate change will eff our economy and create so many world crisis, but whatever. 3) He says the left extreme views on late term abortions. WTF again! Nobody talks about late-term. They talk about woman's choice and bodily autonomy. Almost all and I'm saying this cause I don't know every example are due to a medical emergency.

So all above is no doubt right wing talking points, basically who just don't want the current fascism. I give them that. Yet Yang trying to act he is a Dem and this is his center-center? Center left? No doubt this is a Republican party. To be fair you could probably swing people who think this is center, but thinking the Democrat Party is some extreme leftist or mirrors the Republicans, gtfo!

Also stated as I don't want to say this and person who hates our 2 party system. Trying to create a 3rd party than may help fascism take control of our nation is effin irresponsible.

[Endus]

Ugh!

First I read the WAPO post and his reasons. So Yang gave these examples; 1) Stated the far left wants to confiscate all guns. Umm, sure the far left, but the far left don't control the effin Dem party. They barely have a say. I know some of you will say we don't even have a far left. Sure. Point is they have no political power. 2) Says most Americans don't agree with far left upending our economy and way of life over Climate Change. Besides the far left bs, you do understand that Climate Change itself will upend our economy and way of life. We are doing nothing or so little right now, it's frightening. I could really rant here how climate change will eff our economy and create so many world crisis, but whatever. 3) He says the left extreme views on late term abortions. WTF again! Nobody talks about late-term. They talk about woman's choice and bodily autonomy. Almost all and I'm saying this cause I don't know every example are due to a medical emergency.

So all above is no doubt right wing talking points, basically who just don't want the current fascism. I give them that. Yet Yang trying to act he is a Dem and this is his center-center? Center left? No doubt this is a Republican party. To be fair you could probably swing people who think this is center, but thinking the Democrat Party is some extreme leftist or mirrors the Republicans, gtfo!

Also stated as I don't want to say this and person who hates our 2 party system. Trying to create a 3rd party than may help fascism take control of our nation is effin irresponsible.

Yeah, those three points are far-right propaganda nonsense. I probably qualify as "Far-left" in Yang's view, since I'm an avowed socialist who thinks the capitalist economy should be eliminated, right?

So, 1> Nope, don't want to "confiscate all guns".
2> Climate change, like you said, is already upending the economy. We support focusing that economy's growth in fields that have future promise, like renewable energies and such, rather than continuing to prop up old-world systems like oil and gas, which have a shrinking lifespan as it is and who only benefit the wealthy capitalists who own them.
3> Abortion's about women's basic rights to self-ownership. If you oppose abortion rights at any level, you're implicitly if not explicitly arguing that women don't own themselves (unlike men), and thus are somewhat less than fully persons under the law. This isn't "far-right"; it's been the law in Canada for like 40 years and it's largely had multi-party support throughout that period, with the only complaints coming from religious extremists. Y'know, the kind who blow up clinics and murder abortion doctors "because they respect life".

[Xyonai]

Ugh!

First I read the WAPO post and his reasons. So Yang gave these examples; 1) Stated the far left wants to confiscate all guns. Umm, sure the far left, but the far left don't control the effin Dem party. They barely have a say. I know some of you will say we don't even have a far left. Sure. Point is they have no political power. 2) Says most Americans don't agree with far left upending our economy and way of life over Climate Change. Besides the far left bs, you do understand that Climate Change itself will upend our economy and way of life. We are doing nothing or so little right now, it's frightening. I could really rant here how climate change will eff our economy and create so many world crisis, but whatever. 3) He says the left extreme views on late term abortions. WTF again! Nobody talks about late-term. They talk about woman's choice and bodily autonomy. Almost all and I'm saying this cause I don't know every example are due to a medical emergency.

So all above is no doubt right wing talking points, basically who just don't want the current fascism. I give them that. Yet Yang trying to act he is a Dem and this is his center-center? Center left? No doubt this is a Republican party. To be fair you could probably swing people who think this is center, but thinking the Democrat Party is some extreme leftist or mirrors the Republicans, gtfo!

Also stated as I don't want to say this and person who hates our 2 party system. Trying to create a 3rd party than may help fascism take control of our nation is effin irresponsible.

Oh wow so I was totally right, this is just a Right-wing plot to put in a Fake Moderate Left party to syphon votes away from Dems by appealing to pearl-clutching centrists.

[Adam Jensen]

Eh, The West is about our shared cultural roots and influences, where as a hemisphere is about geography and splitting the globe in half, imo.

Except splitting the globe in half has literally nothing to do with culture or politics.

[Unholyground]

As with most countries that have existed for 100+ years need their entire election proccess changed to better reflect modern sensibilities. A vote should be a vote without all the other shit that skews the numbers making votes useless. All of the old systems were created for much a smaller voter base in a time where these systems made sense but now it makes 0 sense to have all of this other shit in the way of.the voters.

[masterhorus8]

Yeah, those three points are far-right propaganda nonsense. I probably qualify as "Far-left" in Yang's view, since I'm an avowed socialist who thinks the capitalist economy should be eliminated, right?

So, 1> Nope, don't want to "confiscate all guns".
2> Climate change, like you said, is already upending the economy. We support focusing that economy's growth in fields that have future promise, like renewable energies and such, rather than continuing to prop up old-world systems like oil and gas, which have a shrinking lifespan as it is and who only benefit the wealthy capitalists who own them.
3> Abortion's about women's basic rights to self-ownership. If you oppose abortion rights at any level, you're implicitly if not explicitly arguing that women don't own themselves (unlike men), and thus are somewhat less than fully persons under the law. This isn't "far-right"; it's been the law in Canada for like 40 years and it's largely had multi-party support throughout that period, with the only complaints coming from religious extremists. Y'know, the kind who blow up clinics and murder abortion doctors "because they respect life".

The irony of this is that since they are GOP talking points, that likely means they'll actually get GOP voters...

[RadasNoir]

The irony of this is that since they are GOP talking points, that likely means they'll actually get GOP voters...

From my perspective, any time I've talked to a so-called "centrist", it inevitably turned out they were a closet conservative after all.

While I definitely understand the concern of siphoning off more "moderate" Democratic voters, I can't help feeling like anyone who agrees with Yang's talking points about the "evils of the far left" are the sort of people that either were already going to vote Republican anyway or weren't going to vote at all.

[postman1782]

The Western Hemisphere(excluding the USA) should largely be copying the USA because we're more prosperous, more innovative, and more productive. Why should we copy other countries that are on average less successful and less productive? That's backwards.

And yet, we are last on just about EVERYTHING in the 1st world countries.

[Muzjhath]

I'd argue it's more complicated than that. At the local level, you can do a lot, but once you hit county and above, especially State, you start needing a larger framework to tie into. Voting for that really good local city councillor who doesn't have a party is one thing, but doing the same at the State level nearly never happens. So to drive that success at the local level, you also arguably need that State/National party framework to stand within, and building all that on the hopes of achieving something is a massive barrier to overcome.

Sticking to just the local level means you never get to upper levels, because you end up with a bunch of mavericks who got into politics to do what they thought was right, not a party platform.

Sticking to the national level means you Ross Perot the election. At best.

And trying to do both doesn't mean you've got much of a prayer, either; see the current Libertarians.

What it may take is a concerted State-level fight, which is small enough to succeed with limited investment, and then expanding from State-level success to a national scope. That's basically how the NDP did it, here in Canada, with Tommy Douglas, and particularly his implementation of universal health care for Saskatchewan without any federal mandate; Douglas' successful implementation caused everyone to pay attention and brought about national overhaul. A State like California has the potential to do the same in the USA, they just can't be arsed to.

Well, I agree. And I ought to probably have formulated myself better.
But my point was to start small, start comming together and organizing, and then becoming a larger party within the states you work. Then try to come together in an umberella on the national level the same way the other large US political parties work.
As technically the Wisconsin Democrats isn't the same party as the New York Democrats are.

Any new party in the US needs to work in the same way and build up, get names and people who work for them at levels. Get recognition from people close to home, then go bigger.
Etc etc complex as hell takes time and it's probably too late to avoid Fascist dictatorship in all but name for the US.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think they know perfectly well that splitting the vote is putting a gun to the Democrat party's head. It's a bargaining move. If the democrats don't shift back to the moderate position, they'll pull the trigger.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't feel bad about the Democrat party dying.

If anything, Trump proved that there are far more conservatives fed up with the milquetoast Republican party. Democrats aren't going anywhere, and with Bernie's bid gone and buried that little splinter is now gone as well.

Or the libertarian middle ground which is exactly what America will have I suppose; let the states decide.

That's not libertarianism. If anything it's closer to a Republic.

It might be a policy issue for the Libertarian party of America, but the Libertarian party of America is basically just an offshoot of Republicans that already splits their vote pretty hard.

[Kaleredar]

If anything, Trump proved that there are far more conservatives fed up with the milquetoast Republican party. Democrats aren't going anywhere, and with Bernie's bid gone and buried that little splinter is now gone as well.

Seeing as the democrats have won the popular vote for every single presidential election except one in the past three decades, I think his estimation that the "democrats are on their way out" is pretty damn fallacious.

Of course, he claims that the democrats are "too far left," which is a pretty telling notion that he has no clue what he's talking about as well.

That's not libertarianism. If anything it's closer to a Republic.

It might be a policy issue for the Libertarian party of America, but the Libertarian party of America is basically just an offshoot of Republicans that already splits their vote pretty hard.

And libertarianism only ever acquiesces to "whoever has the most money gets to tell everyone else what to do." It inevitably results in an oligopoly, even moreso than the US already faces. Its a political ideology that espouses self-interest and apathy, and that inevitably results in allowing tyranny to form.