The Diablo 4 pre-order bundles, and their supposed cost

[Biomega]

Yes, and I'm arguing put them back into the base price, hand me the game for 150 bucks and everything included in the base game

But isn't that, like, a majorly worse deal for people low on cash, or people not interested in all those cosmetics? Isn't it MUCH fairer to the average player to have a $70 game with optional cosmetic MTX that also pays for free content for the people who don't want to engage in MTX?

Maybe it's not what YOU want, but what about, you know, other people? Isn't the way they're doing it a lot better for the average player?

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if immortal is any indication

That's a VERY big "if". It's a mobile game made principally by a Chinese mobile game dev. Its destiny of abusive monetization was foreordained. Why WOULD that translate to a PC game, just because it's got the same brand name on it. Especially after they've said, repeatedly, that it's not where their stuff is going.

Don't get me wrong - if they do decide to change the model, it needs to be reevaluated. But it'd be unfair to evaluate a model based on what MIGHT PERHAPS happen in the future, rather than on the information we HAVE RIGHT NOW.

[crusadernero]

People, dont pre order. Wait until the game is out. Unless you are 10000% certain D4 will be your main game for a long ass time. I remember the whole D3 ordeal with preorder and symbiosis with wow.. ANd when the game launched it was a complete shitshow not long after release.

[Biomega]

There is still, a VERY stark difference between: It'll cost me 150 dollars for this, or 60 dollars and potentially 0-X amount for all the content available, and yes, cosmetics are content.

Except that "cosmetics are content" while perhaps technically true just isn't how a LOT of people think about this. And to just price them out because YOU happen to disagree seems not only unfair, but also like a really bad business decision.

[Kumorii]

I take the game at 70 and pay for any extra as I seem fit instead of 150 with extra cosmetics. I don't care much for it and personally think cosmetics is a blessing and a curse. Lots of games become more about cosmetics rather than the game but at the same time these cosmetics funds free content for the rest of us.

[Biomega]

So is day 1 DLC, which is equally unfair.

Not to people who don't care much about cosmetics. To them, this is a big win because they just get content for free.

[sylenna]

But isn't that, like, a majorly worse deal for people low on cash, or people not interested in all those cosmetics? Isn't it MUCH fairer to the average player to have a $70 game with optional cosmetic MTX that also pays for free content for the people who don't want to engage in MTX?

Maybe it's not what YOU want, but what about, you know, other people? Isn't the way they're doing it a lot better for the average player?

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That's a VERY big "if". It's a mobile game made principally by a Chinese mobile game dev. Its destiny of abusive monetization was foreordained. Why WOULD that translate to a PC game, just because it's got the same brand name on it. Especially after they've said, repeatedly, that it's not where their stuff is going.

Don't get me wrong - if they do decide to change the model, it needs to be reevaluated. But it'd be unfair to evaluate a model based on what MIGHT PERHAPS happen in the future, rather than on the information we HAVE RIGHT NOW.

it has a battle pass. that alone is immersion-killing crap taking place in the normal UI. i'm really sure about that. doubled with an open world will diminish any grim d4 experience for me.

[Gorsameth]

it has a battle pass. that alone is immersion-killing crap taking place in the normal UI. i'm really sure about that. doubled with an open world will diminish any grim d4 experience for me.

if a battle pass existing is immersion killing crap then how have you lived with playing a game that has an inventory and character screen?
They are just as immersion breaking. Arguably even more so as they drive home that your character doesn't actually exist IRL.

[Biomega]

it has a battle pass. that alone is immersion-killing crap taking place in the normal UI.

Yikes.

Well, if a UI element is a deal breaker for you because muh immersun, fine. Don't buy it. That's not really something you can sell as a reasonable criticism to most people.

[sylenna]

if a battle pass existing is immersion killing crap then how have you lived with playing a game that has an inventory and character screen?
They are just as immersion breaking. Arguably even more so as they drive home that your character doesn't actually exist IRL.

it's not always black and white.

i can have a twitter integration in WoW set up which i'll mostly never see again. that game already has me tabbing in and out all the time which is totally fine.

playing a game and always getting a little red dot reminding me to put in more hours to achieve more of the stuff i would lose if i didn't comply ruins a game for me.

i mean.. having pressure isn't a good thing when you are delving into some gritty dungeon with demons and angels, right? yes, it is pressure for cosmetic shit. but it is *there*. it wants attention since someone higher up suggested that the game should have a revenue stream after the box sale. so it is there and it will be waving it's ugly €€/$$ price tags when you eventually check it out.

and i have zero trust that blizzard will be subtle about putting that feature in.

[bloodwulf]

it has a battle pass. that alone is immersion-killing crap taking place in the normal UI. i'm really sure about that. doubled with an open world will diminish any grim d4 experience for me.

Man this is like when people cried that Kiracs Pass had a tiny icon in one corner of the POE Atlas. "MY IMMERSION....ITS DEAD" Jesus people, stop being so uptight, there has been shop icons in games for decades, and im sure it will have the edgy grimdark vibes of everything else that is a UI element in D4. The entirety of the UI should break your immersion, unless you are just making shit up to sound offended.

[Cynical Asshole]

This is one of the most cooked takes I've ever read, in a long time, especially since my point seems to sail over your head which is, "Games used to cost a base price and come with everything IN the game when I paid for it". Your point would be more accurate if I paid for a steak dinner, and got a piece of skirt steak and 3 chips, being told I have to pay extra for the "full chip experience", but whatever, capitalists gonna capitalist.

The cost of making AAA games nowadays is insanely high, rivaling Hollywood big movies budget, and that is just not covered by the box price alone and it has to come from other sources. Otherwise all you will see are indie-like games and mobile games, which is fine if that's your standard level, but for people who want to be impressed that just won't do.

So you can either deal with the high price or accept the fact that all games will be low budget and forgettable. OR the 3rd option where game developers only make games like Diablo Immoral where you P2W and the whales will provide those profits while most gamers will just stay away.

[Endus]

It's like buying a booster pack of trading cards and the commons being locked behind an extra booster pack that requires more payment. My commons are there, I can fucking SEE them and touch them, but I can't have them because I didn't pay the extra cost you threw on me after the fact?

Your argument is like buying a starter deck for a TCG and then complaining that the starter deck doesn't include literally all the cards in the game, and that you still are encouraged to buy boosters.

Actually, it's worse, because there you're buying actual power, and with DIV, the extra purchases are just cosmetics and the like.

Your position is nothing more than a completely unwarranted and irrational entitlement complex. You want something, and don't wanna pay for it, and don't think you should have to, and your reasoning for why not is "you want it". And that's it. That's as far as it goes.

[Endus]

It's not, you just want to beat the shit out of a strawman because that's easier for ya, happy for you to do so, but I won't participate in it any further, since I made it VERY fucking clear I am happy to pay even more on the box price, but hey both chastise and defend day 1 dlc in the same thread, the look suits you.

There's literally nothing wrong with Day 1 DLC, and you've made no argument to that effect other than "I want it and don't want to pay for it".

[Unseen Guest]

Except the game does just that if you want to unlock everything

Ahhh the whole give a mouse a cookie they'll want milk too.

[Eosia]

The "Collectors Edition" is a total ripoff though. Doesn't even include the damn game.

[munkeyinorbit]

Except the game does just that if you want to unlock everything

That's like saying your forced to buy gas for your car if you want to drive it. See how ridiculous this complaint is?

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It may be the "regular price of any ol' AAA game", but it surely isn't the "regular content of any ol' AAA game", considering such cosmetics, back in the "ol' days" would be attainable in-game either through mob/boss loot drops, or by completing challenges.

Now, there's the battle pass. On top of the original price of the game.

Well you can just play those games then if it's such a big deal. No one is forcing you to play D4. Unless...

Blink twice if Blizzard is hidden there pointing a gun at your head.

[Endus]

You literally made an argument against it earlier in the thread: cut content resold back if it has story implications: Part of what you enjoy in games being sold back to you on day 1, so yes, there is at least ONE thing, in your opinion, wrong with day 1 dlc, unless you want to retract that and say that story or gameplay cut to be resold as day 1 dlc is okay?

That was very specific type of DLC, and I'd have a problem with it regardless of timing. I have the same problem with "real ending" type DLCs, like in Dragon Age: Inquisition. It's entirely about the story relevance to the main story and its intended conclusion.

Let me be clear; this would not apply to things like side content, cosmetics, epilogues the the ME3 Citadel DLC, etc. The only example I can think of where it's the "real ending DLC" offhand is DA:I, much like how the only story-relevant day 1 DLC I can actually think of is the Javik pack on ME3. Not saying there aren't others, I just can't think of any.

I've also made enough arguments, you just decided to go the ad hominem route of attacking my viewpoints as being one borne from entitlement, even though I've made it abundantly clear that paying more isn't an issue, and paying more over the course of a game for more content isn't an issue, either, so excuse me if I don't find this discussion that is entirely based on our opinions on something with merit, since being insulted for having an opinion on what I do and don't find acceptable in the games industry a wee bit shitty.

If paying more isn't an issue, then just buy the highest edition and whatever battle pass is offered. Problem solved. What's the complaint, again?

[munkeyinorbit]

This is one of the most cooked takes I've ever read, in a long time, especially since my point seems to sail over your head which is, "Games used to cost a base price and come with everything IN the game when I paid for it". Your point would be more accurate if I paid for a steak dinner, and got a piece of skirt steak and 3 chips, being told I have to pay extra for the "full chip experience", but whatever, capitalists gonna capitalist.

I have been to a lot of places that offer the fries option when eating. Like, 100s of places. The fries aren't free. You pay for them. I don't understand what all of this dishonesty us about?

[Wilian]

I personally don't understand why people get so upset over this model unless they break their promise and make it you can buy power.

Nobody is forcing you to buy battlepass and cosmetics. It's just another way of income to support the game you want to play. I hear people complaining they are wasting resources on cosmetics they could have otherwise used for content, that's bullshit. They wouldn't be doing it unless it was profitable and guess what, the extra profit is used to funnel more resources into the actual content.

And if you are angry you can't have shiny things, well don't be so vain then I guess. I never found items bought with real money prestigious, it doesn't mean shit. Only that you have money. It's the same as people in real life spending insane amounts of money on overpriced designer clothes. Sure I like nice things too, but there is a limit.

In a way it is you who is leeching on other people spending their money. So why be upset about it? If you don't want to feed the beast, then don't.

I've yet to see a game where b2p game quality correlates with existance of a battle pass.

[Strawberry]

People, dont pre order. Wait until the game is out. Unless you are 10000% certain D4 will be your main game for a long ass time. I remember the whole D3 ordeal with preorder and symbiosis with wow.. ANd when the game launched it was a complete shitshow not long after release.

I preordered Diablo III Physical Collector's Edition. Still have the box, it's in mint condition, and the items it includes are pretty awesome.
I also loved the game even early on. Was not a huge fan of the real money auction house, but I made some €160 from it before it was removed.

Fortunately we can wait for 6 months with our preorders, but I'll definitely preorder the game and I'm most likely buying that physical collector's edition this week if it's available in EU.

The price really was never an issue when it comes to D4. My budget for it is basically set to €1000. If they charged that I'd think about it, but I'd eventually buy it. But it also is the only game I'd spend big money on. I game rarely nowadays and I've been waiting for a long time on D4.
A very long time.