Blizzard finally understood the value of casual players having more access to gear.

[Echo of Soul]

FF14 stole that system from WoW's justice/valor.... ah forgot it.

Well steal it back then, it's working brilliantly.

[Celement]

Mainly, LFR wasn't immediately worthless and offered something to work toward as a casual player and badge gear still existed.

When I last played, heroic dungeon gear become worthless in less than a week. LFR gear pretty much was worthless before LFR even unlocked. There just wasn't anything worthwhile to do if you didn't want to do mythic+ or real raiding.

Its not that I want easy gear or anything, I just want something I can work toward for more than a couple of days in content I can queue for. Hell, if anything, I'd like the amount of gear you can earn outside of those things to be slowed down SO they aren't outmoded so dang fast. That sort of content had waaaaaaaaay longer legs in MoP. (Well, dungeons didn't. That was the expansion's biggest flaw.). Hell, it doesn't even have to be gear. I'd take literally anything that made me feel like I was making any sort of meaningful progress instead of near instantly being knee-capped out of content. Really, a big problem is just exactly how much gear they vomit on you.

Though, I mean, maybe it's better now? I don't know. I gave up on Shadowlands pretty fast when it seemed to have as much and more problems as BFA.

The only that changed was your perspective. Everything is identical to what you listed they just added mythic plus. This isn't a problem blizzard can fix as it's simply your perception.

[kaelix1]

Well steal it back then, it's working brilliantly.

You realise you can upgrade gear above heroic level with valor, right?

[kenn9530]

This is BS, "casuals" are still getting shit gear compared to Ion's pet raiders and m+ buddies. The exclusivism will never end as long as our chief elitist jerk is at the helm

If you dont do high M+ or mythic raiding you should be content with only obtaining heroic raid level gear, you should be required to do challenging content to get more powerful gear, the problem is solely on those players that feel entitled to getting max ilvl gear, heroic raid level gear is more than powerful enough for a casual player.

[Otimus]

The only that changed was your perspective. Everything is identical to what you listed they just added mythic plus. This isn't a problem blizzard can fix as it's simply your perception.

Outgearing LFR before you're allowed to do LFR (unless you do normal or higher) definitely wasn't a thing until WoD, and it's been a staple since.

[Drudi]

This game is not about competition of skill. If it was, everybody would be given exactly the same set of gear/materials similar to how arena tournament works. So, this it not.

It’s about investing into the game. When a typical player plays the game - doing all kinds of content - that player gets, on average, more chances at gear and other resources compared to other player who doesn’t. Since this product’s primary monetization model is subscription, investing more time results in longer/more predictable and stable subscription patterns which yields more money. This is good.

However, blizzard started to shortcut it by selling paid levelups, gold and through that, other services that essentially use real money to “compress” the time, so blizzard can get their revenue faster and player can get their result faster as well - a “win-win” of sorts.

Problem is, this alienates the game for players that only play it to FEEL that progression. Compressing time through money literally kills the game. Kills it even if it’s others doing this, not them.

Guess blizzard marketing eggheads decided this share of players is irrelevant market segment.

Oh yeah, casual players. I doubt this segment even exist, so OP’s question is irrelevant in the first place.

[Echo of Soul]

You realise you can upgrade gear above heroic level with valor, right?

Oh I can queue up for heroic dungeons and get valor from them and upgrade my gear to heroic raid iLvls?? That's awesome, glad that they brought it back.

[Celement]

Outgearing LFR before you're allowed to do LFR (unless you do normal or higher) definitely wasn't a thing until WoD, and it's been a staple since.

You are only out gearing lfr if you are running mythic.

[khazmodan]

They should just copy the tomestone system from FFXIV and let us buy heroic gear with it. A lot of casual players would probably leave FF and come back to WoW.

I haven't played FF (mostly because of the anime style art) but it sounds like they are doing something right and Blizzard should do what they have done so many times before and steal ideas if it makes the game better. It is amazing to me that the players and former players have to beg these dev dolts to do something that will save there job...

[Echo of Soul]

I haven't played FF (mostly because of the anime style art) but it sounds like they are doing something right and Blizzard should do what they have done so many times before and steal ideas if it makes the game better. It is amazing to me that the players and former players have to beg these dev dolts to do something that will save there job...

They're probably scared that the toxic elitists would quit if they gave the casuals a slow but steady way to earn the second best gear in the game. Literally catering to the minority to push the majority to their main competitor.

[Johnjohn]

Outgearing LFR before you're allowed to do LFR (unless you do normal or higher) definitely wasn't a thing until WoD, and it's been a staple since.

Correct. I find it interesting when people say nothing has changed when so much has. Heroic dungeons and LFR used to mean a lot more. What fascinates me is a lot of casuals like myself complained a lot that dailies and world quests should never reward better gear than dungeons and LFR and we got told we wanted freebies.

I mean seriously. I think some people turn their brains off when these arguments take place. They are so obsessed with posturing and trying to show someone up that they don't even think before they post.

You want heroic dungeons to be harder and reward better gear, same for LFR. This encourages casual players to actually engage in the social aspects of the game. Currently they get welfare gear which forces them into an isolated world with zero skill.


As far as better gear for casuals. I preferred this game when there were far less gear upgrades. There really should be 2 sets of gear. One for the filthy casuals, one that is 20% better for hardcore players. It was far simpler, and did not have people playing completely different games. There are way too many different difficulty levels currently, way too many levels of gear progression each patch.

You can have 2 sets of PVE hear and 2 sets of PVP gear if you really want more gear to farm. The game was at its most popular when this model was around, so you are just wrong if you do not think it would work.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Correct. I find it interesting when people say nothing has changed when so much has. Heroic dungeons and LFR used to mean a lot more. What fascinates me is a lot of casuals like myself complained a lot that dailies and world quests should never reward better gear than dungeons and LFR and we got told we wanted freebies.

LFR is currently dropping 265, which is dramatically higher than any solo gear! There's no way you outgear that unless you were doing 15s and heroic+ raids last patch.

[Celement]

I haven't played FF (mostly because of the anime style art) but it sounds like they are doing something right and Blizzard should do what they have done so many times before and steal ideas if it makes the game better. It is amazing to me that the players and former players have to beg these dev dolts to do something that will save there job...

It is a easier wow... that is what they do right when it comes to a lot of this forums praise of the game. That isn't a bad thing mind you and ff does do things like leveling far better then wow.

What people talk about here though most often is how it is simply easier.

- - - Updated - - -

They're probably scared that the toxic elitists would quit if they gave the casuals a slow but steady way to earn the second best gear in the game. Literally catering to the minority to push the majority to their main competitor.

It's more it destroys the mid level game of wow. Wrecking havoc on the normal- heroic and 10-15 key crowd.

When you hand out gear for nothing but time the competent test for new or returning players becomes 10 ilv higher then the welfare gear.

WoW being a mmo rpg with so many difficulties to suit so many kind of players is why you cant have free gear. FF works fine because although the skill floor is higher then wow. The skill ceiling is roughly around heroic raiding.

[Swnem]

I don't think they have. Wait till DF tier 1. All lessons will be unlearned.

This makes me nostalgic about those SL week 2 threads saying how great it was. Oh... how easily impressed some are. You clearly haven't been on this rodeo long enough yet.

[Otimus]

LFR is currently dropping 265, which is dramatically higher than any solo gear! There's no way you outgear that unless you were doing 15s and heroic+ raids last patch.

It was like this during BFA though, and the first few months of Shadowlands. I at least haven't played since then. So if it's better now, that's really good.

But like others have said, I'm really going to take a wait and see approach to the next expansion. They usually always do things like this at the end of an expansion and completely reverse course after.

[Xath]

They're probably scared that the toxic elitists would quit if they gave the casuals a slow but steady way to earn the second best gear in the game. Literally catering to the minority to push the majority to their main competitor.

These people you imagine exist don't exist. The reason most mythic raiders didn't like forging was because it made them feel forced to do stuff on the chance of it forging. Having badge gear upgrade to heroic level wouldn't be an issue.

[Stickiler]

It was like this during BFA though, and the first few months of Shadowlands. I at least haven't played since then. So if it's better now, that's really good.

But like others have said, I'm really going to take a wait and see approach to the next expansion. They usually always do things like this at the end of an expansion and completely reverse course after.

What solo content were you doing that awarded gear higher ilvl than LFR? WQs started at 148 and only upgraded at specific renown levels, and only upgraded by 5 ilvl each time. When LFR unlocked, you would have been getting ilvl 160 ish gear from WQs, and LFR was 187.

[Nymrohd]

What solo content were you doing that awarded gear higher ilvl than LFR? WQs started at 148 and only upgraded at specific renown levels, and only upgraded by 5 ilvl each time. When LFR unlocked, you would have been getting ilvl 160 ish gear from WQs, and LFR was 187.

You are forgetting emissary gear, world boss gear, warfront gear (in BfA). You could jump ilvl really fast with just a couple of lucky rolls there.

Nvm this was about SL only. Sorry. Damn I don't even remember the gear curve of early SL. I think the best upgrade for casuals was the campaign gear?

[Echo of Soul]

You are forgetting emissary gear, world boss gear, warfront gear (in BfA). You could jump ilvl really fast with just a couple of lucky rolls there.

Nvm this was about SL only. Sorry. Damn I don't even remember the gear curve of early SL. I think the best upgrade for casuals was the campaign gear?

The best curve for casuals was to unsub and start playing FF14 instead which was exactly what most of them did. It was over in less than a month and the quality was laughably low. Meanwhile in FF they got a gear treadmill every patch that lasted for multiple months and awarded the second best gear in the game.

It wasn't a hard choice.

[AudibleEscalation]

LFR is currently dropping 265, which is dramatically higher than any solo gear! There's no way you outgear that unless you were doing 15s and heroic+ raids last patch.

Upgrading ZM cypher system gives you 252 drops from daily ZM quest/exploration content + 2x291 leggos + couple of Fated World Boss i285 drops - you might not be "outgearing" LFR, but you get pretty close with solo gear.