FFXIV Criticisms

[Necromantic]

I said they made dozens and dozens of posts, not that there were dozens and dozens of people. The idea that I should spend hours combing through old posts looking for particular issues for something that is self evident (people have quit FF14 early and come here to complain about it) is ridiculously entitled.

Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me and I do not know how that equates to entitlement. I'm curious because I'd like to have a conversation with someone like that.

I understand people have quit. You didn't say at the time about just quitting, you said at 30, which is the type of person I want to talk to... understand what made them feel that was adequate. Why are you being so confrontational?

[NineSpine]

Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me and I do not know how that equates to entitlement. I'm curious because I'd like to have a conversation with someone like that.

I understand people have quit. You didn't say at the time about just quitting, you said at 30, which is the type of person I want to talk to... understand what made them feel that was adequate. Why are you being so confrontational?

I'm being confrontational because you are condescending and entitled. I made a rather mundane claim and you are demanding I now spend my free time digging through posts to find "evidence" for it. It's stupid, just like it would be stupid if I said "My name is Steve Johnson" and you demand I go dig out my birth certificate before you will believe it. It's an unreasonable, absurd request given how mundane the claim is, and the very request itself is insulting.

[Yarathir]

I think someone mentioned that the WoW store mounts are completely unique and have no close counterparts ingame, and half the mounts ingame are recolours.

That is literally the same and probably worse for FFXIV. The Trial mounts are literally recolours of the same mount. And there are, what, atleast 5 or 6 recolours with at least 4 series of them, right?

You literally mentioned the one situation where XIV has recolors...

[Necromantic]

I'm being confrontational because you are condescending and entitled. I made a rather mundane claim and you are demanding I now spend my free time digging through posts to find "evidence" for it. It's stupid, just like it would be stupid if I said "My name is Steve Johnson" and you demand I go dig out my birth certificate before you will believe it. It's an unreasonable, absurd request given how mundane the claim is, and the very request itself is insulting.

Why do you feel I was being condescending? I don't see anything in my posts that can even be misconstrued as that word.

You replied to only me in the entire thread and I was only asking you to point me in the direction. I didn't demand anything from you, only requested.

I didn't ask for you to go far out of your way to dig up something that I knew would take you a long time. You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly, so I asked so I could talk to the person.

I don't understand how you can be insulted by a request for something you brought up. I was asking for your help. I figured with the amount of time you've spent thus far replying to me and not showing me what you're referring to, you could have found exactly what I asked.

I don't see any legit reason thus far to being so confrontational.

[NineSpine]

Why do you feel I was being condescending? I don't see anything in my posts that can even be misconstrued as that word.

You replied to only me in the entire thread and I was only asking you to point me in the direction. I didn't demand anything from you, only requested.

I didn't ask for you to go far out of your way to dig up something that I knew would take you a long time. You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly, so I asked so I could talk to the person.

I don't understand how you can be insulted by a request for something you brought up. I was asking for your help. I figured with the amount of time you've spent thus far replying to me and not showing me what you're referring to, you could have found exactly what I asked.

I don't see any legit reason thus far to being so confrontational.

Because you are attempting to hide your smug, condescending bullshit behind "I'm just being nice" geniality, which is actually an even shittier way to behave.

How exactly would you propose I go find the particular posts, which I am recalling from months ago?

[Necromantic]

Because you are attempting to hide your smug, condescending bullshit behind "I'm just being nice" geniality, which is actually an even shittier way to behave.

How exactly would you propose I go find the particular posts, which I am recalling from months ago?

I guess I'm not following you. There is nothing smug or condescending in any of my posts. I'm struggling to understand how you're construing anything I'm saying as-such. I'm only here to have a friendly conversation. I'm not sure what about that is "shitty". If wanting to do that is not allowed, I was not aware and I apologize.

I do not know what I could propose. I assumed when you said it was self-evident that it happens all the time or somewhere in this thread. I skimmed this thread and didn't see anything. I don't know if you're seeing something somewhere that I'm not. I enjoy getting feedback from people who only tried the game for a day or two to find out how they came to the conclusion they did. There is usually something obvious that veterans overlook that deters people.

[Ghost of Cow]

"it happens everywhere!"

"Oh, can you show me?"

"...you're such a jerk!!"

[NineSpine]

I guess I'm not following you. There is nothing smug or condescending in any of my posts. I'm struggling to understand how you're construing anything I'm saying as-such. I'm only here to have a friendly conversation. I'm not sure what about that is "shitty". If wanting to do that is not allowed, I was not aware and I apologize.

I do not know what I could propose. I assumed when you said it was self-evident that it happens all the time or somewhere in this thread. I skimmed this thread and didn't see anything. I don't know if you're seeing something somewhere that I'm not. I enjoy getting feedback from people who only tried the game for a day or two to find out how they came to the conclusion they did. There is usually something obvious that veterans overlook that deters people.

It is incredibly shitty behavior to make absurd evidentiary requests for mundane claims that obviously will take hours to fulfill and then declare that someone's inability to do that is an indication that they are incorrect.

You don't know what you could propose because the request is asinine on its face.

- - - Updated - - -

"it happens everywhere!"

"Oh, can you show me?"

"...you're such a jerk!!"

This is what I said:

"There are people in this forum who I have seen post dozens and dozens and dozens of times about all the problems with FF14 and then they turned out to have quit at level 30."

Notably I didn't say "It happens everywhere!" or even "It happens all the time!". I said it *has happened*.

[Necromantic]

It is incredibly shitty behavior to make absurd evidentiary requests for mundane claims that obviously will take hours to fulfill and then declare that someone's inability to do that is an indication that they are incorrect.

You don't know what you could propose because the request is asinine on its face..

I’m really trying to understand you. You keep saying things like “smug, condescending, absurd” but what about it is so? I’m just trying to see what you’re seeing. I only asked, I didn’t demand. You could say “no thanks”. I don’t get why that’s offending you so badly.

I never said you were incorrect about anything. I was asking for your help.

[NineSpine]

I’m really trying to understand you. You keep saying things like “smug, condescending, absurd” but what about it is so? I’m just trying to see what you’re seeing. I only asked, I didn’t demand. You could say “no thanks”. I don’t get why that’s offending you so badly.

I never said you were incorrect about anything. I was asking for your help.

I did say no thanks, and then you kept pushing the issue.

[PenguinChan]

As someone who really loves FFXIV and has been since 1.0 - I really wish we had an alternate game-mode or something like Bozja / Eureka where it's more customizable. Like having custom made classes or deeper designs and alternate progression, etc. A mode completely separated from the rest of the game (Like PotD, HoH, etc.) so that you can balance it all by itself away from the main game or PVP.

I say this, because the biggest thing I like and dislike about 14 right now is how streamlined and straight forward with no wiggle room the classes are. They are rigid, solid, work well and don't really fall behind any other (Besides in like, damage and slight variances). Of course some classes will be better than others, but - still. It's something I do miss about old FFXIV, but I completely understand them gutting these types of systems for the MSQ and main game. It's just too difficult to have someone play through a 200 hour story AND master a complex class while having access to all the plethora of systems which can completely change the way you play.

Oh and I really wish we had WoW's transmog system already.

[Necromantic]

I did say no thanks, and then you kept pushing the issue.

Can you show me where you said that? I only recall you questioning why I would ask you in a confrontational manner.

[Yarathir]

All I can say is that while I really don't care for stuff like talent trees and class customization, I definitely wouldn't be opposed to at least some jobs getting an option to be a different role. I'd love to play a Ranged DPS Sage or DPS Dark Knight.

[MsSideEye]

Yeah, but to be fair how many other MMOs require you to queue for a (admittedly LFR difficulty) raid to progress the main storyline?
GW2 (from my understanding) has solo instances for Personal Story, and WoW has no forced dungeons or raids to progress the main quest line - dungeons are just optional "capstones" to zones quests; and always have been since Vanilla.

Thats my pool to draw from. 2/3 MMOs not locking the rest of the game behind group content (you have to do CT to get into Heavensward content).
Feel free to point out other MMOs that I haven't tread waters in that do this.

To be fair, at one point in time, WoW required you to actually unlock the dungeon itself through the questing before you would get it for the Dungeon Finder. You could still have friends run you through, sure, but back then it was clear that the intent was for you to go through the zone and actually get the dungeon unlocked normally instead of just hitting level 61 and having the Necrovalley unlocked despite having never been there or even seen the story elements that build up to it. (Yes, I know that's not a real dungeon, just giving an example of whats normal now)

While I do agree that XIV could be a bit better about allowing you to still have MSQ while you're also doing the Crystal Tower by pointing you over to it earlier on, I honestly do not think that having something required to continue the story is a bad thing in any game.

?

Every single savage and ultimate is filled to the brim with these.

Reading comprehension, my friend... It really helps. This is legitimately what I said is the only instance where FFXIV has the 'One dies, everyone dies' set up, and it's both not pushed on the players nor is it used as a measuring stick of what you're capable of unless you're already DOING savage/extreme/ultimate. Compared to WoW, where they've got UI elements, special achievements, and even text on the gear that tells everyone just how far along you've gotten in Mythic+.

If you want me to have a better way of saying it, how about this? With the way WoW is designed and set up right now, the expectation is there for you to push yourself into harder content, to be the pushing mythic keys and trying harder and harder to give your best. Even if you don't have to do it, it feels like you should because the game itself goes 'look, here's this cool thing we made for you to keep track of how high you've gotten in the difficulty slider!'. It makes for a more competitive atmosphere and, in turn, can breed a lot of problems when others aren't trying as hard and impact your own progress.

I always try (when applicable) to persuade people to not give up on FFXIV until at minimum, level 50. By then, they've actually obtained a job stone and experienced enough content to decide if they like how the game plays. Like you, most people I notice who give up do so before they even obtain a job stone and experience very little content. That doesn't give the game a fair chance. I've went back and forth with people who try and rationalize that they've made a "educated" or "good enough" assessment pre-level 30 and any FFXIV veteran will tell you that you simply cannot.

Participating in the story isn't so much the problem but as stated, at this point, anyone diving in has to clear base game and 4 expansions worth of story missions. That's quite a bit and not everyone has the patience to sit and watch a bunch of cutscenes or read a bunch of text. People want to dive into the action. They want to kill stuff.

Bolded the last part in particular since that's something that is very subjective. While I won't deny that there are people who want to do exactly what you said, that's not the focus for everyone and, in particular, not one that I've always been into myself.

Let me try explaining it this way, Necro, and see if we can't get our point across better: What you're suggesting for the story elements and the like right now for XIV is basically like telling us that there's no point in watching the rest of a movie that just came out, that we should legit just fast forward through it all to get to the action scenes. Will there be some people who are able to do that just fine and enjoy themselves? Sure! Hell, there's a reason why some people post youtube clips of those very parts online.

But when it comes down to it, do you know what I'm telling players whom I'm wanting to expose to XIV about? It's story. What am I warning them can run overlong at times, especially when it comes to ARR? The story. What am I'm telling to treat the game like, first and foremost when it comes to what they should really expect out of it? Once again, it's the story.

While being an MMO is part of XIV's DNA, it's a game about it's story. And like any other game with super long stories, like Persona, Metal Gear Solid, or Dragon Age to just name a few, I wouldn't want you to fast forward through the slow parts just so you can get to the battles. As i said before, even in this very thread, the idea here is to treat XIV like a long book series or an anime like One Piece. You eat it in small bites to enjoy the entire meal, not shovel it all down your throat to just say 'I'm done!'

[NineSpine]

Can you show me where you said that? I only recall you questioning why I would ask you in a confrontational manner.

"I was just asking for you to show 1-2 since you said "dozens and dozens and dozens" which would lead any reasonable person to believe it could be found rather quickly."

"Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me..."

"You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly..."

We both know what you are doing. Drop the act.

[Necromantic]

"I was just asking for you to show 1-2 since you said "dozens and dozens and dozens" which would lead any reasonable person to believe it could be found rather quickly."

"Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me..."

"You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly..."

We both know what you are doing. Drop the act.

I’m really confused. What act? I don’t understand the disconnect here and get information. It was never my intent to offend or upset you or anyone else.

[Arlette]

In a way, it actually does. That's how Fortnite got so many naive kids hooked. Today, there are a several people who are addicted to making their online person(s) look all flashy and the more options you have, the more you're likely to lure somebody in than if you only had a few things to choose from.

It’s almost like in that game, cosmetics are available on the store to buy for money. This is untrue for FF14.

And I know you know that because you used a totally different game in a totally different genre with a totally different monetization structure in response to my responding to a comment about the store in this game.

[Necromantic]

It’s almost like in that game, cosmetics are available on the store to buy for money. This is untrue for FF14.

And I know you know that because you used a totally different game in a totally different genre with a totally different monetization structure in response to my responding to a comment about the store in this game.

So various aesthetics are not available for FFXIV?

[Moralgy]

Reading comprehension, my friend... It really helps. This is legitimately what I said is the only instance where FFXIV has the 'One dies, everyone dies' set up, and it's both not pushed on the players nor is it used as a measuring stick of what you're capable of unless you're already DOING savage/extreme/ultimate. Compared to WoW, where they've got UI elements, special achievements, and even text on the gear that tells everyone just how far along you've gotten in Mythic+.

If you want me to have a better way of saying it, how about this? With the way WoW is designed and set up right now, the expectation is there for you to push yourself into harder content, to be the pushing mythic keys and trying harder and harder to give your best. Even if you don't have to do it, it feels like you should because the game itself goes 'look, here's this cool thing we made for you to keep track of how high you've gotten in the difficulty slider!'. It makes for a more competitive atmosphere and, in turn, can breed a lot of problems when others aren't trying as hard and impact your own progress.

I mean, ffxiv does similar things, it has achievements special rewards for doing the hard content via the best weapon looks in the game, mounts, and titles that do push people to do content very similarly to wow. It really seems to be you view ffxiv differently than you view wow, and thats cool, but you are implying your subjective opinion is how it really works in the game. There is no real difference in the two games outside of the community regarding navigating people towards content, which has a large casual fanbase that doesnt care to do the insanely hard stuff no matter how much ffxiv would push for it. On the raid side of ffxiv, there is no real difference than the wow side community wise.

All in all, it really seems like you view ffxiv as more casual and nothing else, because the hardcore aspect is there, and pushed by square enix, just the game has more than only hardcore raiding and gear grinding so it attracts a wider variety of people.

Fuck, the chase to get the ucob title alone did wonders to get me into hardcore raiding far more than wow ever did past like wrath. I would argue, personally, ffxiv does a better job to get people interested in raiding than wow does cause those titles and weapons do be fancy when roaming around social events in ffxiv, and being fancy matters .

[Stickiler]

It’s almost like in that game, cosmetics are available on the store to buy for money. This is untrue for FF14.[/I]

What are you talking about? The FFXIV store is filled with glamours, emotes, mounts, dyes etc.