How are you liking mandatory old dungeons being introduced with regular seasons in DF

[Trenbolone]

Well.. Lower Kara is awful, Grimrail is poorly build with the zooming and lack of space. Junkyard is a joke but actualy an enjoyable one. Others are kinda meh.
Jade Serpent might be fine. But there is a rotating boss that might be a problem for certain pugs.
Court of Stars i just hate. Minigame at the end will just be auto solved with an addon in any serious group but might break a lot of pug keyes.
- also farming the ring with every single melee, thx blizzard.
HoV is beautiful but might be a slog.
Burial Grounds i like, depends on the tuning tho. The slime boss will be super annoying waste of time if someone slips.

I dont think this is good. They should just pump out more dungeons instead of pulling old ones that were not build with new abilities and m+ scaling in mind. Grimrail is excelent example of this. Abilities were poorly telegraphed on the gound or not at all, the constant zooming and corridors is pure cancer in m+...
Some dungeons might be okay, they might also become a nightmare.

The worst thing tho is blizzards stupid reasoning.
#1 argument when they talked about people showing late during season not knowing tactics and others being toxic towards them
- gg pals, now there will be toxic enviroment from day 1 because people in high pugs will demand people to know tactics already for these old dungeons.
#2 argument farming same gear over and over
- gg again, now i will farm the same gear i farmed couple expansions ago.
# argument doing dungeons over and over again
- gg again, like previous argument about items, people who played those expacs know those dungeons already, you do them while leveling...

It's just so bad from blizzard.. They have more money, developers, technology than ever before, yet they cant come up with more than 4 fully created dungeons .
And by the way, im not talking about 4/4 split in DF S1 for m+. They have done this in SL aswell. Mists of trina was cut from the world, Plaguefall also, HoA and NW too. They are not even fully creating 8 dungeons for the sake of dungeons but they take the whole enviroment from the world. They have more options than evver before, yet they are doing less and less.

[Sanguinerd]

I don't like it, we pay for a new expansion with new dungeons NOT for them to recycle shit.

Not to mention they have shown a habit in picking the worst ones so far.

[Flurryfang]

I love it.

Its not like the dungeon design in WoW have been a linear line of improvements over the years. That are some dungeons in the past, that are just as good, if not better, than current expansion dungeons. I don't mind playing some older dungeons, especially because it gives a more diverse playing experience when it comes to grinding M+.

[Caprias]

I love it.

Its not like the dungeon design in WoW have been a linear line of improvements over the years. That are some dungeons in the past, that are just as good, if not better, than current expansion dungeons. I don't mind playing some older dungeons, especially because it gives a more diverse playing experience when it comes to grinding M+.

The pacings is very different though as S4 has shown, especially mechanical.

Bosses are kind of on the same level even though it feels like SL bosses are a bit faster paced but trash mobs are night and day to before M+ times, most modern mobs have 1-2 mechanics you need to know on their own with many important casts to kick: meanwhile ID and GD... what is an interruptable cast?

I hope the 4 DF dungeons we get are on the less complex site, else the difference will feel very weird to the 4 older dungeons.

[Nymrohd]

I hope the 4 DF dungeons we get are on the less complex site, else the difference will feel very weird to the 4 older dungeons.

Yikes, wait till you see Nokhud Offensive. At least we are not getting Halls of Infusion.

[saintminya]

Perhaps the variable complexity is the point, just perhaps not the only point in re-tuning past instances to be available to voluntarily group up for and run, but not queue for, as a new M+ experience.

[Voidling]

Why leave content left to rot?

If players actually run M+ for the fun of it, give them more to play instead of locking them into a small pool every season. Let the players buy or earn optional one-time keys for any dungeon that can function with M+. Let these dungeons drop loot but it would be important that these optional dungeons wouldn't count for KSM, or Mythic Scores.

If players are running M+ for loot, then they really don't care what dungeons are up. They'll be targeting dungeons for the loot they provide and will likely get tired of anything you give them. If Mechagon was up every season, you would see ppl would farming those rings every season.

[craigw]

season 1 i am not a fan of it. i want new content. after season 1, who cares.

[Gasparde]

Depends on whether or not the dungeons will be enjoyable.

Not looking forward to another case of Lower Kara where tuning is just fucking stupid after 5 sets of nerfs still.
Not looking forward to another case of Iron Docks or Grimrail where every other mob just has a random non-telegraphed, non-interruptible, non-stunnable ability that just randomly kills people left an right... while ever yboss is like a 3 minute tank and spank 1 ability zerg.

I hope HoV is not gonna be cancer like Kara. I hope Court of Stars will not be a profession nightmare. I'm afraid Jade Serpent is gonna be boring as all fuck. And I hope that Burial Ground is not gonna be as aids as I fear it will inevitably be.

But considering how this season was their first attempt... I'm not entirely cynical about the idea yet - still rather cautiously optimistic that they've learned and that they'll find some way to make Jade Serpent more than a 3-4 pulls dungeon with 0 interesting mechanics and a 100% pre-defined route...

[xenogear3]

As long as they're eventually balanced properly I don't mind.

This.
I prefer it is tuned the same difficulty as the original expansion.

I only played WotLK heroics a lot.
After the world quests came out, no one ran heroics any more because the world quests have better loot.

[hulkgor]

Will make each of the three\four seasons of an expansion way more exciting, instead of having the same 8 dungeons for 2 years, you'll have 24/32 different ones at least.

[loras]

This really bothers me as someone who can easily spend up to 10-15 hours a day playing mythic plus alone. Now in Dragonflight players are being forced to play old dungeons with normal regular mythic plus seasons.

I think it's too forced of idea in my personal opinion. Repeating old dungeons at large (which is what mplus requires from you to do anyway) can be extremely demotivating factor to continue playing WoW for me. The fact that I've done them to the point of mild PTSD. It doesn't look to be any optimistic to be honest. Only new things should be mainstream, and old dungeons should be buried away and left to timewalking instead.

Imo the main issue is that there's still just 8 dungeons.
If it had expanded the pool, then fair enough, but now it's more like "Why?".

Personally i'd have opted to just add a rotating pool of 4 to the 8 of the present expansion. (And adjusted ratings/KSM/etc. so that no one is disadvantaged by the additional 4 dungeons)

But in its present form it solves effectively nothing.

[Unholyvamp]

In the beginning of this season i thought it would be a great idea, just to keep things fresh.

In practice and after trying it out for two months now, i gotta say it sucks.
I hate at least half of the old ones from the current *SEASON 4* dungeon roster. I literally hate them. And i mean i don't even have the incentive to push for higher score just because those dungeons are freaking there.
And i guess that's because it is dungeons that i already disliked in the past. Yes even their Normal/Heroic/Mythic version.

Based on that i think i'm gonna have an extremely bad time in DF with the shit that's coming.

[Lolites]

ts a tactic so people don't complain about the same 8 dungeons in the m+ rotation for the whole xapc.
What would a studio that respects its customers do, they would make more dungeons throughout the expansion.

making 8 new dungeons every season (so roughly every 6 months) is virtualy impossible, if you ever managed any project you would know that...

- - - Updated - - -

In the beginning of this season i thought it would be a great idea, just to keep things fresh.

In practice and after trying it out for two months now, i gotta say it sucks.
I hate at least half of the dungeon roster. I literally hate them. And i mean i don't even have the incentive to push for higher score just because those dungeons are freaking there.
And i guess that's because it is dungeons that i already disliked in the past. Yes even their Normal/Heroic/Mythic version.

Based on that i think i'm gonna have an extremely bad time in DF with the shit that's coming.

and if in DF you hate half of the new dungeons you would have no incentive to play them for WHOLE EXPANSION instead of season(s)... how is that better?
or there is no chance you will ever hate new dungeons and there are no old dungeons that you didnt hate?

[hulkgor]

snip

So, if you'd 'hate' the dragonflight dungeons, being stuck with them for 2 years would be better in your opinion? Amazing.

Even if you loved them for the first months, what about the rest of the expansion, wouldn't they be "old" by then, and the reason you would end up "hating" them?

[Dakara]

This but also slightly reworked, see first week of Grimrail Depot vs. now, many older dungeons either have mechanics that simply don't scale well and become frustrating or just need a rework with better indicators to properly play around.

This is a big part of the problem.
What's the difference between Grim Rail Depot now vs then? I have no idea, nor do many other players because we saw what a mess S4 was in the beginning and tapped out.

If every DF season starts out like S4 did it's going to be a mess. Plenty of players will push through it of course, others wont. I'm definitely in the latter group.

[Caprias]

This is a big part of the problem.
What's the difference between Grim Rail Depot now vs then? I have no idea, nor do many other players because we saw what a mess S4 was in the beginning and tapped out.

If every DF season starts out like S4 did it's going to be a mess. Plenty of players will push through it of course, others wont. I'm definitely in the latter group.

Last boss was unplayable without very heavy cheese (which also wasn't intended as they fixed that too), all they did pretty much was a better spear indicator on the boss and indicating the dragon breath in the first place so you don't get randomly oneshot at a high enough level.

But yeah I agree that they have to rework those older dungeons preemptively and not only slap scaling on it and call it a day(and even that was a nightmare in lower kara early on), first two-three weeks was frustrating if you wanted to push anything in there, I'd also say Grimrail depot is a very great example of why some dungeons don't mesh well with certain affixes. (also f**k the camera affix)

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I love these forums for the combination of people yelling "seasonal gameplay is bad, content should never be obsolete" contrasted with "reusing a dungeon from 5 years ago in one season is unacceptable"

[Aresk]

I don't, but not because it's old dungeons. It's because I don't enjoy relearning things 4 times in an expansion. I don't play that much and this is stressing me out, doing routes for one set and then having to do them all over again.

But seasonal affixes were already causing this. Prideful required a completely different route based on the percentages than Encrypted, which prioritized where to use the skips. Shrouded I think I like the best of Shadowlands, in that it has minimal route impact.

[frn1]

I don't mind it, it's good way to not having the seasons repetitive. However, maybe not for season 1. Let us do all the new dungeons or a least only have 2 old dungeons.


Court of Stars and Temple is confirmed? Wonder what the last 2 will be.. lots of annoying ones they could throw in.
Something like Violet Hold would be sort of PUG/tank friendly i guess since you dont need to worry about count, the trash is just thrown at you. Not very fun dungeon though.