Evoker is broken. In the bad way.

[Cynical Asshole]

[Zodiark]

I think the whole Mail armor is supposed to be squishy is a terrible argument. I mean it's the next highest armor before plate. Yet cloth and leather wearers have loads more survivability than mail users. Makes zero sense. Mages have great defensive toolkits and Warlocks are some of the hardiest specs in the game. Even Rogues and druids and monks who are leather wearers have great survivability.

[D3athsting]

I think the whole Mail armor is supposed to be squishy is a terrible argument. I mean it's the next highest armor before plate. Yet cloth and leather wearers have loads more survivability than mail users. Makes zero sense. Mages have great defensive toolkits and Warlocks are some of the hardiest specs in the game. Even Rogues and druids and monks who are leather wearers have great survivability.

That's because you hardly take physical dmg in raids, 90% of the dmg is either direct magic damage or magic dmg dots, if a raid boss attacks you and you aren't a tank you will be dead anyway

[FuujCraft]

Wow, there is even a follow up video a week later that you chose to ignore.

[Cynical Asshole]

vids

Nope, I know of that. The thing is that Evokers are still dogshit at PVP even with the buffs, and I know this from actual PVP players. They get rekt by everything except warriors. No idea about arena and other situations that aren't 1v1, but for a solo PVP-er, Evokers aren't a good choice at all.

The main problem is that they're extremely squishy when trained. Hell, hunters can even outrange them too.

[unfilteredJW]

Who cares? Don’t balance classes around the PvP minigame.

[Zodiark]

That's because you hardly take physical dmg in raids, 90% of the dmg is either direct magic damage or magic dmg dots, if a raid boss attacks you and you aren't a tank you will be dead anyway

I like the holy trinity don't get me wrong. It's been my preferred way of playing since MMO's became a thing. But In the spirit of progress I think some change is good. A tank shouldn't be relied upon so much. Meaning that if the tank dies and other non-tanks get aggro it shouldn't just be a wipe. Everyone should be able to mitigate damage of any type to some extent, just tanks are better at it.

[Nalam the Venom]

Nope, I know of that. The thing is that Evokers are still dogshit at PVP even with the buffs, and I know this from actual PVP players. They get rekt by everything except warriors. No idea about arena and other situations that aren't 1v1, but for a solo PVP-er, Evokers aren't a good choice at all.

The main problem is that they're extremely squishy when trained. Hell, hunters can even outrange them too.

Please don’t base any thing round PvP,

[Zodiark]

Who cares? Don’t balance classes around the PvP minigame.

Totally this. PvP was more or less a side-content game mode in WoW. Back in the day people just ran BG's for the lol's. Then blizz tried to market the game to people with short attn spans who just want quick action. Get-in and get-out, type gameplay. From then on classes have been adversely effected by the PvP side of WoW. That most PvE people don't even play.

[Mamut]

Nope, I know of that.

Then why you linked outdated video with state before buffs? To push your point? And as other have said I hope they will never balance the game around PvP.

[Jinnobi]

I remember getting WoW as an early Christmas present on December 10th, 2004. I've been playing ever since.

What has consistently baffled me -- and sometimes, frankly, angered me -- is this self-important proclaimation that PvP is a "minigame" and that balancing WoW should have nothing to do with PvP in the slightest.

That outlook is not only self-centered (I don't like it, therefore it's not important) but also self-evidently wrong. The PvP side of WoW has a huge fanbase; enough to draw in significant numbers both in-game and watching PvP esport teams pound on each other.

I have never seen someone try to berate and belittle PvE in the same way. It's almost as if people entirely focused on PvE are the bad guys, and they don't even realize it (not everyone, mind you, just the ones that attempt to belittle PvP and ruin it for those who do enjoy it, by encouraging balance in PvP to be ignored).

Saying PvP is "side content" has never held up to scrutiny; not now, not back in TBC. It's parallel content. You can PvE, you can PvP, or - ideally - you engage both with an open mind.

The WoW team has never considered PvP "side content" and treat it as it's own end-game goal. And just as PvE is it's own self-contained aspect of WoW that doesn't need PvP, the same applies to PvP. However, they both enrich the other.

What bothers me is that PvPers have often understood this, while self-important PvE elitists seek to badmouth and undermine PvP at every reasonable opportunity (and sometimes unreasonable opportunities, depending on the person).

Why can't people give respect to both primary end-game activities? Are you so afraid that "your" favored activity is going to be affected by the "other side?" Or are you really so nearsighted that you think Blizzard values one over the other?

[Mamut]

Why can't people give respect to both primary end-game activities? Are you so afraid that "your" favored activity is going to be affected by the "other side?" Or are you really so nearsighted that you think Blizzard values one over the other?

Maybe because there was alot of removed or changed skills just because they could not balance them in PvP so PvE is already affected by the "other side" and people are tired of this?

[Skalm]

...
The WoW team has never considered PvP "side content" and treat it as it's own end-game goal. And just as PvE is it's own self-contained aspect of WoW that doesn't need PvP, the same applies to PvP. However, they both enrich the other.
...

I mean, Rob Pardo explicitely stated that they never should have added Arenas (which is where the majority PvP balancing that affects PvE stems from). And he also said that it was quite literally just an 'add on' to the PvE game. They clearly never meant for it to be an alternative end-game goal either.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...were-a-mistake

https://www.engadget.com/2009-11-13-...a-mistake.html

[Cynical Asshole]

Then why you linked outdated video with state before buffs? To push your point? And as other have said I hope they will never balance the game around PvP.

I know of the 2nd link, I just didn't bother posting the 2nd one because it changes basically nothing for PVP purposes.

- - - Updated - - -

Please don’t base any thing round PvP,

PVP is part of the game whether you like it or not. And great many people would instantly bail on the game if PVP wasn't a thing, myself included. Only reason I don't play FFXIV is because PVP is practically non-existing over there.

[Lolites]

PVP is part of the game whether you like it or not. And great many people would instantly bail on the game if PVP wasn't a thing, myself included.

and nobody says to REMOVE pvp, but balancing things around pvp rather than around pve, when literaly all data that are or ever were available shows pve is done by a lot more people (or rather characters) would be outright stupid...
PVE is bigger and clearly to players and devs alike more important part of the game, whether you like it or not, so it should remain the main focus...

[thediceman]

What most players think of the pvp meta. So yeah, pve plz.

[Nalam the Venom]

I know of the 2nd link, I just didn't bother posting the 2nd one because it changes basically nothing for PVP purposes.

- - - Updated - - -



PVP is part of the game whether you like it or not. And great many people would instantly bail on the game if PVP wasn't a thing, myself included. Only reason I don't play FFXIV is because PVP is practically non-existing over there.

Then please bail.

The game is better off for every STV ganker that leaves the game.

Good riddance all of you.

[Cynical Asshole]

Then please bail.

The game is better off for every STV ganker that leaves the game.

Good riddance all of you.

Then who is going to pay for your content? Bobby needs to show that quarterly growth, and if it's not from people buying shit then it's from him firing people and cutting down on development time and resources. Then you will whine the game has no content.

[Calfredd]

Then who is going to pay for your content? Bobby needs to show that quarterly growth, and if it's not from people buying shit then it's from him firing people and cutting down on development time and resources. Then you will whine the game has no content.

Living up to your username there. You know there are options between "incessant whining" and "shutting up and taking it" right? There are people who like the class, there are people who can properly criticize the class, there are people who don't even care about the class and are playing the other classes instead; a whole gradient between those 2 points.

[Nymrohd]

Who cares? Don’t balance classes around the PvP minigame.

They are not even talking about pvp. They are talking about dueling and ganking.