Dragonflight rant - Where did the production value go ?

[TheRealTetro]

I am extremely ambivalent about Dragonflight. What we got is very good, dragon riding is awesome and should have been a thing a long time ago, professions are pretty engaging and feel pretty good so far.
But what we got is also... really not much.

I enjoy all aspects of the game, from pet battles to open-world farming to +20s. And in all aspects this opening patch is by far the weakest I've seen since returning to the game for Legion.

Where are the max level questlines ? Apparently I am already done with half of the max level campaign, and one of those quests (the first Dragonscale Expedition one) was an introduction for the next one. It also featured a PTR prompt to be teleported to the quest objective and a merchant selling items from Ardenweald.

You would think the efforts that went into four covenant campaigns being funneled into a single experience would yield quite the amount of content, but this is what we get ? It's really not about the quality of the SL campaigns, or the fact that we had to wait a week between each chapters, but just the sheer amount of content it represented. Same for Torghast, I'm not debating whether it was good or not, but it was something, where did that production value go ?

The reputation grind is broken, my main got to level 12 on the centaur renown by doing essentially just the quests. Now if I level an alt and do the same amount of quests it will get them to renown 17 because of the rep buff you unlock at level 10. The 5 renown difference means weeks of world quests just to catch up to an alt because the catch-up mechanic has that much of an impact.

On that topic, whose brilliant idea was it to have world quests refresh twice a week ? Now if you login daily you log into a continent that is dead and empty more times than not.

The raid has seven bosses. Last time the opening patch had a seven bosses raid it was Emerald Nightmare. Karazhan and Nighthold were already announced and we also got a surprise three-bosses raid in between.
Eight apparently, but who's counting ?
Now I'm not a visionary, the raid could be very good and properly tuned. Let's just say doing m0 without a hitch at ilvl 320 doesn't exactly make me confident.

Just like with Shadowlands, people were calling for a delay because beta feedback was that it needed more time. Except with Shadowlands it was about the expansion's systems. With Dragonflight it was about how unpolished it was. But here it is, I've never seen a WoW expansion with that many typos, visible technical IDs, visible spells and effects tagged [DNT], mining nodes under the floor or behind walls or flying in the air, UI issues even with all add-ons disabled, unfinished descriptions (check out the Tuskarr Dinghy toy), small hitches and other strange NPCs visible on the map (Agorithos 0 for those in the know).

Honestly at this point I'm hoping that the rumored 10.0.5 can be a big surprise content-wise. Because right now it looks like the raid-logging + 1 weekly m+ lifestyle will start week 1 of season 1.

There's no way I'm the only one feeling this way, right ?

[Relapses]

There are 8 bosses in Vault?

They did mention that part of the deal with them getting DF out as quickly as they did is that they wanted to work on getting more content in our hands more quickly. DF is a bit light on introductory content and two whole weeks without M+ and raids is probably a bit much but it's still better than what we got at the beginning of BfA, imo.

edit:

The raid has seven bosses. Last time the opening patch had a seven bosses raid it was Emerald Nightmare. Karazhan and Nighthold were already announced and we also got a surprise three-bosses raid in between.
Eight apparently, but who's counting ?

Who's counting? You are. Literally, lmfao

[Throwme]

DF is a bit light on introductory content

You should talk to some SWTOR players about being light on intro content. Their latest expansion is almost at the .2 patch and they have yet to recieve more than what WoW brings in a x.x.5 content patch

[cuafpr]

It doesn't matter how much content they put this post would get made. Blizz has the data on who is what level and how fast the targeted/average player is doing, that's what counts not the ones the burn through it in a week.

[TheRealTetro]

It doesn't matter how much content they put this post would get made. Blizz has the data on who is what level and how fast the targeted/average player is doing, that's what counts not the ones the burn through it in a week.

I mean yeah, sure. But these past few expansions the content was there, if gated. Suramar, War campaign, covenant campaigns and features, that stuff was there from day one, and people were still scrambling to finish some of it up in the last few weeks of SL to get Veilstrider. This time... it's just not existing.

[MakoSlushie]

I am extremely ambivalent about Dragonflight. What we got is very good, dragon riding is awesome and should have been a thing a long time ago, professions are pretty engaging and feel pretty good so far.
But what we got is also... really not much.

I enjoy all aspects of the game, from pet battles to open-world farming to +20s. And in all aspects this opening patch is by far the weakest I've seen since returning to the game for Legion.

Where are the max level questlines ? Apparently I am already done with half of the max level campaign, and one of those quests (the first Dragonscale Expedition one) was an introduction for the next one. It also featured a PTR prompt to be teleported to the quest objective and a merchant selling items from Ardenweald.

You would think the efforts that went into four covenant campaigns being funneled into a single experience would yield quite the amount of content, but this is what we get ? It's really not about the quality of the SL campaigns, or the fact that we had to wait a week between each chapters, but just the sheer amount of content it represented. Same for Torghast, I'm not debating whether it was good or not, but it was something, where did that production value go ?

The reputation grind is broken, my main got to level 12 on the centaur renown by doing essentially just the quests. Now if I level an alt and do the same amount of quests it will get them to renown 17 because of the rep buff you unlock at level 10. The 5 renown difference means weeks of world quests just to catch up to an alt because the catch-up mechanic has that much of an impact.

On that topic, whose brilliant idea was it to have world quests refresh twice a week ? Now if you login daily you log into a continent that is dead and empty more times than not.

The raid has seven bosses. Last time the opening patch had a seven bosses raid it was Emerald Nightmare. Karazhan and Nighthold were already announced and we also got a surprise three-bosses raid in between.
Eight apparently, but who's counting ?
Now I'm not a visionary, the raid could be very good and properly tuned. Let's just say doing m0 without a hitch at ilvl 320 doesn't exactly make me confident.

Just like with Shadowlands, people were calling for a delay because beta feedback was that it needed more time. Except with Shadowlands it was about the expansion's systems. With Dragonflight it was about how unpolished it was. But here it is, I've never seen a WoW expansion with that many typos, visible technical IDs, visible spells and effects tagged [DNT], mining nodes under the floor or behind walls or flying in the air, UI issues even with all add-ons disabled, unfinished descriptions (check out the Tuskarr Dinghy toy), small hitches and other strange NPCs visible on the map (Agorithos 0 for those in the know).

Honestly at this point I'm hoping that the rumored 10.0.5 can be a big surprise content-wise. Because right now it looks like the raid-logging + 1 weekly m+ lifestyle will start week 1 of season 1.

There's no way I'm the only one feeling this way, right ?

What exactly would make you happy? What exactly would suffice as content in your eyes ?

Honestly, I care very little about spelling errors, nodes being in weird spots, and any of those trivial aspects of a game. I just don’t care.

The quality of the version we have, whether good or bad, is all subjective, right ?

After playing this game for nearly two decades and being in the small percentage of players who have cleared raid content at the highest difficult at the most relevant times per raid - I am only interested in Mythic Raiding and Mythic Plus. Everything else is boring to me - but I don’t complain on forums and call out the developers for whatever reason.

Content is also subjective. Preparing your roster for mythic raiding and mythic plus is content to me. Leveling those classes and clearing your mythic zeros until Mythic Plus comes out. Get your item level and stats as high as they can and wait.

I was able to reach 70 on launch. Cleared mythics by the next day and started my alt runs. Day two cleared on Evoker and partial clears on DH and Monk. Now I have 5 70s and some mid 60s alts to play around with.

For reference, I took two days off for vacation and I worked from home on Wednesday. I work as a QAE and I work a lot of hours. Just incase I was about to be hit with, “you’re just a WoW no-lifer”.

To me, that’s a lot of content. Because like I said earlier, everything else is boring and a waste of time to me. But I’m not the majority.

I just find this obligatory post just meh. It was going to be made by someone, though.

[RobertMugabe]

Yeah, Dragonflight, while really fun and all so far, is indeed missing something. I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or w/e, but I thought Suramar was the best zone and open world content (the way how you unlock quests, the extra content, the city mechanics etc.) they have ever added to the game. I am surprised that we're not seeing something like that in Dragonflight.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Where are the max level questlines ?

They stopped making those after MoP.

You would think the efforts that went into four covenant campaigns being funneled into a single experience would yield quite the amount of content, but this is what we get ?

Cutting corners and doing the least amount of effort possible is NuBlizzard's modus operandi.

On that topic, whose brilliant idea was it to have world quests refresh twice a week ?

The accountants desperately trying to keep retention up.

[TheRealTetro]

There are 8 bosses in Vault?

They did mention that part of the deal with them getting DF out as quickly as they did is that they wanted to work on getting more content in our hands more quickly. DF is a bit light on introductory content and two whole weeks without M+ and raids is probably a bit much but it's still better than what we got at the beginning of BfA, imo.

edit:

Who's counting? You are. Literally, lmfao

I dunno, BfA had more story content, more dungeons, islands, you could already start grinding out AP which at least would still mean something come the week after unlike the gear people are currently grinding out, oh and you also had two completely distinct leveling experiences and max level campaigns...

I really don't want to debate whether or not it was good content, or how meaningful the AP grind was or wasn't. Just the sheer production value. BfA is really not a good example here imo, since it probably had the biggest budget of any expansion they've ever made.

Dragonflight, however good some of its features might be, just feels cobbled together from scraps next to it.

- - - Updated - - -

What exactly would make you happy? What exactly would suffice as content in your eyes ?

Honestly, I care very little about spelling errors, nodes being in weird spots, and any of those trivial aspects of a game. I just don’t care.

After playing this game for nearly two decades and being in the small percentage of players who have cleared raid content at the highest difficult at the most relevant times per raid - I am only interested in Mythic Raiding and Mythic Plus. Everything else is boring to me - but I don’t complain on forums and call out the developers for whatever reason.

Yeaaaaah, there's (a lot) more to an expansion than raids and M+. If you find your fun grinding out rares who drop gear that'll be irrelevant come the start of the season it's cool and I'm not judging.

People out there also enjoy max level questlines like Suramar, engaging pet battles bosses (yes, that's a thing), doing world quests on a daily basis just to see some numbers go up. Raids and M+ are not going anywhere, the rest of the stuff apparently is and that's what bothers me.

Like, right now the problem is not that I already don't have anything to do, it's that there's objectively very little content when compared to any of the last few expansions.

[FelPlague]

The raid has seven bosses. Last time the opening patch had a seven bosses raid it was Emerald Nightmare. Karazhan and Nighthold were already announced and we also got a surprise three-bosses raid in between.
Eight apparently, but who's counting ?

You, YOU are counting, and apparently can't even do that.

[HansOlo]

I am extremely ambivalent about Dragonflight. What we got is very good, dragon riding is awesome and should have been a thing a long time ago, professions are pretty engaging and feel pretty good so far.
But what we got is also... really not much.

I enjoy all aspects of the game, from pet battles to open-world farming to +20s. And in all aspects this opening patch is by far the weakest I've seen since returning to the game for Legion.

Where are the max level questlines ? Apparently I am already done with half of the max level campaign, and one of those quests (the first Dragonscale Expedition one) was an introduction for the next one. It also featured a PTR prompt to be teleported to the quest objective and a merchant selling items from Ardenweald.

You would think the efforts that went into four covenant campaigns being funneled into a single experience would yield quite the amount of content, but this is what we get ? It's really not about the quality of the SL campaigns, or the fact that we had to wait a week between each chapters, but just the sheer amount of content it represented. Same for Torghast, I'm not debating whether it was good or not, but it was something, where did that production value go ?

The reputation grind is broken, my main got to level 12 on the centaur renown by doing essentially just the quests. Now if I level an alt and do the same amount of quests it will get them to renown 17 because of the rep buff you unlock at level 10. The 5 renown difference means weeks of world quests just to catch up to an alt because the catch-up mechanic has that much of an impact.

On that topic, whose brilliant idea was it to have world quests refresh twice a week ? Now if you login daily you log into a continent that is dead and empty more times than not.

The raid has seven bosses. Last time the opening patch had a seven bosses raid it was Emerald Nightmare. Karazhan and Nighthold were already announced and we also got a surprise three-bosses raid in between.
Eight apparently, but who's counting ?
Now I'm not a visionary, the raid could be very good and properly tuned. Let's just say doing m0 without a hitch at ilvl 320 doesn't exactly make me confident.

Just like with Shadowlands, people were calling for a delay because beta feedback was that it needed more time. Except with Shadowlands it was about the expansion's systems. With Dragonflight it was about how unpolished it was. But here it is, I've never seen a WoW expansion with that many typos, visible technical IDs, visible spells and effects tagged [DNT], mining nodes under the floor or behind walls or flying in the air, UI issues even with all add-ons disabled, unfinished descriptions (check out the Tuskarr Dinghy toy), small hitches and other strange NPCs visible on the map (Agorithos 0 for those in the know).

Honestly at this point I'm hoping that the rumored 10.0.5 can be a big surprise content-wise. Because right now it looks like the raid-logging + 1 weekly m+ lifestyle will start week 1 of season 1.

There's no way I'm the only one feeling this way, right ?

It's so basic for me. I just get really frustated, because I can't reach out to people the way I want it.

So - this is the question:

Does DF feel dull because of BFA/SL design or activity level(remember, you always compare the last impression of the last expansion)? If so - does that make DF a worse game(reflection: did we come from a worse place and now we can't appreciate a better place?)

Have we ever witnessed for last the 18 years, where the entire game is on it's full potential 1 week after the release?

Start asking the right questions.

[Thirtyrock]

For context - There were tons of posts at the beginning of Shadowlands and BFA (wasn't around for launch of legion) about how there wasn't enough to do after hitting max level...

There were also tons of posts about people feeling like there was too MUCH to do...

Who was right? The answer is probably all of them FOR THEIR PLAYSTYLE. I can't get to do everything I want to do right now in Dragonflight because I don't have all the time I used to have. So I have plenty to do in game. I'm having a blast.

[Jester Joe]

They stopped making those after MoP.

Every expansion since MoP has had max level questlines.

WoD had the weekly campaigns for the garrison, Legion had the entirety of Suramar and the class hall campaigns, BfA had the war, Shadowlands had the covenant campaigns.

I'm pretty sure everyone gets you dislike the game at this point, but straight up lying isn't really making any points.

[Lolites]

ranting

there is no red ring with exclamation marks and "DO THIS YOU BLIND FOOL!!!" writen around it to point you what to do, but if you actualy EXPLORE there are things to do...

I've never seen a WoW expansion with that many typos, visible technical IDs, visible spells and effects tagged [DNT], mining nodes under the floor or behind walls or flying in the air, UI issues even with all add-ons disabled, unfinished descriptions (check out the Tuskarr Dinghy toy), small hitches and other strange NPCs visible on the map (Agorithos 0 for those in the know).

tbh except for one flying mining node ive not really noticed any of that, maybe bcs i was enjoying the game rather than LOOKING for things to whine about...

also if you play new game and all you notice are typos maybe consider the game is clearly not that interesting to you and find something different to do...

[Kuntantee]

We need more new dungeons. 4 new - 4 old is not acceptable.

[HansOlo]

We need more new dungeons. 4 new - 4 old is not acceptable.

Because the more the better?

Time proved that right?

[TheRealTetro]

For context - There were tons of posts at the beginning of Shadowlands and BFA (wasn't around for launch of legion) about how there wasn't enough to do after hitting max level...

There were also tons of posts about people feeling like there was too MUCH to do...

Who was right? The answer is probably all of them FOR THEIR PLAYSTYLE. I can't get to do everything I want to do right now in Dragonflight because I don't have all the time I used to have. So I have plenty to do in game. I'm having a blast.

It's so basic for me. I just get really frustated, because I can't reach out to people the way I want it.

So - this is the question:

Does DF feel dull because of/compare to BFA/SL design or activity level? If so - does that make DF a worse game(reflection: did we come from a worse place and we can't appreciate a better place?)

Have we ever witnessed for last the 18 years, where the entire game is on it's fullest potential 1 week after the release?

Start asking the right questions.

I'm trying not to judge the content for its quality or for whether or not it fits as many playstyles as possible. I am certain the current state of DF is very good for a lot of people. It's a design choice to not repeat things like AP, or semi-mandatory grinds, it is however not a design choice to have back to back expansions with such a steep difference in raw content in their opening patch.

I'm trying to be as impartial as I can, as I mentioned I tend to do all types of content, so when I say I feel like DF is lacking content, it really could have taken any form, more dungeons, more mini-games, more story content, alternative types of activities like the soup or the siege, a bigger raid. And hell, even just a more polished launch would have made me less likely to be here posting this. If it set itself apart in at least one department I probably wouldn't feel the way I do.
But here we are, it simply doesn't have a particularly high amount of pretty much anything. As a matter of fact it has less of most things.

But hey, dragon riding is cool.

there is no red ring with exclamation marks and "DO THIS YOU BLIND FOOL!!!" writen around it to point you what to do, but if you actualy EXPLORE there are things to do...

tbh except for one flying mining node ive not really noticed any of that, maybe bcs i was enjoying the game rather than LOOKING for things to whine about...

I'm not a hater mate, I'm sad when I see these things, not glad I can add them to a bullet list.

[Thirtyrock]

I'm trying not to judge the content for its quality or for whether or not it fits as many playstyles as possible. I am certain the current state of DF is very good for a lot of people. It's a design choice to not repeat things like AP, or semi-mandatory grinds, it is however not a design choice to have back to back expansions with such a steep difference in raw content in their opening patch.

I'm trying to be as impartial as I can, as I mentioned I tend to do all types of content, so when I say I feel like DF is lacking content, it really could have taken any form, more dungeons, more mini-games, more story content, alternative types of activities like the soup or the siege, a bigger raid. And hell, even just a more polished launch would have made me less likely to be here posting this. If it set itself apart in at least one department I probably wouldn't feel the way I do.
But here we are, it simply doesn't have a particularly high amount of pretty much anything. As a matter of fact it has less of most things.

But hey, dragon riding is cool.

Dragonriding, in my book, is beyond cool. I have spent at least 3 hours of my maybe 12 total in DF just flying around.

[Echo of Soul]

Yeah I think I'll pass on this expansion. If you don't do m+ or raid there doesn't seem to be any worthwhile PVE content to do.

[Sorrowseer]

You got level 12 centaur rep just from the quests, are you high and misreading?