6.3 patch notes

[Cthulhu 2020]

Oh boy, another thread that is:

Val bashing and talking about how boring the game is to play

A WoW Andy bashing the game for not being more like WoW

Who could have seen this coming?



I will say, as far as patches go 6.3 has felt rather mediocre - as far as FF patches go. It's still absolute FIRE, but it's a mild comfy fire, not a blazing hype fire. We still have to look forward to more Hildibrand, Loporits tribal quests, new ultimate raid.

[Ghost of Cow]

I will say, as far as patches go 6.3 has felt rather mediocre - as far as FF patches go. It's still absolute FIRE, but it's a mild comfy fire, not a blazing hype fire. We still have to look forward to more Hildibrand, Loporits tribal quests, new ultimate raid.

The content is fine, but I thought the story was weak.

Second boss of the new dungeon is fun, just a shame that it's another "just fail the mechanic and then yell at the healer for dispel" situation.

[Ghost of Cow]

Instead of Dispel, I wish they'd have just made it "heal them to full" and have the damage be scaled to ~60-75% of a 600 ilvl. Yeah, any healer can hit 1 gcd+1 ogcd heal to fix it, but dispelling 3 dooms is just bleh, unless it's something like LL's throttles, but that has more about co-ordination than just "you have to press this button instead of something else now smileyface."

At least it does damage, so it's not a pure Beatrice level, "DPS Just ignore mechanics and make healer do it." situation!

Kinda hate that stuff, though. Funny because my wife and I did the new dungeon at like 10am Eastern the first day and we wiped one time on that boss and the two DPS called my wife trash and dropped group. Like, what the hell is with people.

[Ogren]

Mind actually clarifying why these things are needed or how they would improve FF14 as a whole aside from more VA? What would tier sets even look like or bring to FF? How about combat based effects? Any examples you'd like to see and why? With respect to build individualization what would you like to see and how do you think it would improve the game?

Give me quantifiable examples to discuss. I have some ideas for a few of your points, but I want to see if you actually care about the game or are just baiting.

Pretty much.

WoW hasn't even had good tier sets since Wrath whereas the artifact armor still looks amazing to this day.

[Wrecktangle]

WoW hasn't even had good tier sets since Wrath whereas the artifact armor still looks amazing to this day.

If you're speaking to strictly aesthetics, not only is that subjective in nature, but in my experience your statement that WoW hasn't even had good looking tier sets since Wrath is flat out wrong. My Mythic Sepulcher Paladin tier gear is easily my favorite set ever designed in WoW. Going further back the Nathria set was really cool, as was the remake of the T6 gear, and the Legion tier set for Nighthold was an excellent design.

Speaking personally my issue is when WoW makes the philosophy to design tier aesthetics around the raid and not the class. Historically when they do it around the class people tend to like the designs better (YMMV, feel free to discuss).

Regarding FF14, while I almost ALWAYS love the PLD designs for AF, I'm perpetually tilted by the dyeing options of the gear. Sometimes I want to keep the metal the same color and just change all cloth pieces to a different color. Sometimes I don't want gold or silver armor, but would rather want bronze because you designed the weapon that tier to be bronze and not gold and I don't want it to clash. It does a staggeringly horrible job letting you dye things meaningfully most of the time IME. They're so close to having a top tier dye system if they did a big investment in it. Let people dye glow effects, and build in channels to make dyeing specific pieces in a slot more meaningful.

Don't even get me fucking started on the fact that Aymerics gear set in the shop doesn't work for females and isn't dyeable. I'm still salty about this.

[Ogren]

If you're speaking to strictly aesthetics, not only is that subjective in nature, but in my experience your statement that WoW hasn't even had good looking tier sets since Wrath is flat out wrong. My Mythic Sepulcher Paladin tier gear is easily my favorite set ever designed in WoW. Going further back the Nathria set was really cool, as was the remake of the T6 gear, and the Legion tier set for Nighthold was an excellent design.

Speaking personally my issue is when WoW makes the philosophy to design tier aesthetics around the raid and not the class. Historically when they do it around the class people tend to like the designs better (YMMV, feel free to discuss).

Regarding FF14, while I almost ALWAYS love the PLD designs for AF, I'm perpetually tilted by the dyeing options of the gear. Sometimes I want to keep the metal the same color and just change all cloth pieces to a different color. Sometimes I don't want gold or silver armor, but would rather want bronze because you designed the weapon that tier to be bronze and not gold and I don't want it to clash. It does a staggeringly horrible job letting you dye things meaningfully most of the time IME. They're so close to having a top tier dye system if they did a big investment in it. Let people dye glow effects, and build in channels to make dyeing specific pieces in a slot more meaningful.

Don't even get me fucking started on the fact that Aymerics gear set in the shop doesn't work for females and isn't dyeable. I'm still salty about this.

Aesthetics yeah but also some of the set bonuses, they looked boring last time I saw just % increases and not really enhancing the gameplay but then again that's probably to avoid it feeling too much like borrowed power.

Mythic Sepulcher Paladin is fine aye, haven't really liked the design of kilts and robes any more though, I think those things should be upgraded because the way XIV has designed them has kinda spoiled me, seems like they're not wanting to keep to Paladin being a knight shining armor in the recent raid giving them this weird rock themed set that looks straight out of WoD whereas Paladins have been eating good in XIV with all these cool raid armor designs based around the moon and heavenly stuff. (Granted as someone who also has a Reaper I'm still waiting on more edgy stuff that looks good.)

[Ghost of Cow]

My Paladin walks around in Limsa with the Aglaia set and it's the silliest, shiniest thing ever, especially with the lighting there. I just love it.

Throw in the anima relic weapon for maximum gawdy gold shininess. Just beyond silly.

[Ogren]

My Paladin walks around in Limsa with the Aglaia set and it's the silliest, shiniest thing ever, especially with the lighting there. I just love it.

Throw in the anima relic weapon for maximum gawdy gold shininess. Just beyond silly.

I haven't obtained the whole set of it yet but when I do I'm going to change the gold to silver since that's been a color scheme I've favored for my Paladin.

[Ghost of Cow]

I haven't obtained the whole set of it yet but when I do I'm going to change the gold to silver since that's been a color scheme I've favored for my Paladin.

I thought about that too, but the issue with dying the Aglaia armor is that no matter what color you use - even metallic gold - it totally removes the "shiny" factor! Just becomes a sad, dull shell.

[Wrecktangle]

Aesthetics yeah but also some of the set bonuses, they looked boring last time I saw just % increases and not really enhancing the gameplay but then again that's probably to avoid it feeling too much like borrowed power.

For sure, but it's important to remember that when I responded to your post it was clearly dictated towards aesthetics given how you compared it to FF14 and not the set bonuses level of complexity, performance, or uniqueness.

With that said I'm INCREDIBLY annoyed with my 4PC Ret set. Flat damage buffs are dumb and I hate them. I'm actually struggling to recall tier set bonuses of the past and they don't seem well documented anywhere, so I'd argue that tends to favor your argument. I *think* I remember a lot of them, but not confidently enough that I could state which tier or expansion so I'll refrain.

Speaking personally I don't actually care for tier sets as a mechanic, but I do think they're valuable in the sense that you can "try" something and if the population ends up liking it, you find a way to reintroduce it next expansion.

Mythic Sepulcher Paladin is fine aye, haven't really liked the design of kilts and robes any more though, I think those things should be upgraded because the way XIV has designed them has kinda spoiled me, seems like they're not wanting to keep to Paladin being a knight shining armor in the recent raid giving them this weird rock themed set that looks straight out of WoD whereas Paladins have been eating good in XIV with all these cool raid armor designs based around the moon and heavenly stuff. (Granted as someone who also has a Reaper I'm still waiting on more edgy stuff that looks good.)

I'm a big fan of the robed knight look (hence my Aymeric rant) and I genuinely like most of the PLD AF sets that match that aesthetic. In DF, it looks like this tier they've reverted to the methodology of tailoring the design of tier aesthetics towards the raid, which I've stated I'm not particularly a fan of.

[inafume]

On the topic of character builds, I've been playing FFXI over the last three weeks and really enjoy the character customization there.

• You can equip a subjob at half your level. Ie, if you are a level 75 black mage, you can equip White Mage and acquire the White Mage's abilities, spells, and passive traits up to level 37. Want to be a melee class that dual wields? Equip Ninja as your subjob. Want more loot? Equip Thief as your sub and let the loot roll in. You can equip White Mage or Red Mage as your subjob and be able to cast sneak and invisible, which is great for stealthing through high level areas. Some main jobs also have their abilities change depending on what subjob you have equipped. For example, if you are a Dragoon and have a melee subjob equipped, then your pet wyvern gains elemental breath attacks, but if you equip a mage subjob then the wyvern will use a healing breath whenever you cast a spell and someone in your party is below a health threshold. If you play Dragoon/Red Mage, you can become a healer who uses poison to trigger healing breaths (you use Red Mage because it has the Fast Cast trait so you cast spells faster, and because it has access to the poison spell which only costs 5 MP and doesn't give the enemy target TP, though other mage subjobs can work if you want more healing throughput from White Mage spells or the utility of teleports).

• Jobs aren't restricted to using just one weapon. There are usually 2 or 3 (sometimes 4) weapons that a job can wield that the job has a good skill level in. For example, samurai aren't forced to only use katanas. They can use spears if they want. Mages can equip cudgels or daggers or swords and go whack people, and you can build around that if you want, like a cudgel that steals MP.

• You can also acquire equipment that augments your abilities, such as a a Drachen Armet that increases the threshold at which the wyvern's healing breath will trigger (for <33% HP to <50% HP), or a hat that lowers the perpetuation cost of certain avatars (ie, the Accord Hat for Summoner if you want to use Fenrir all the time). You can also use macros and swap gear during combat, ie using the Drachen Armet to trigger the healing breath on a play who is at 40% HP, and then switching to the Wyrm Armet which improves your wyvern's breath effectiveness before the healing breath goes off.

• You can acquire points and invest them into improving certain aspects of your main job, ie improving the effectiveness of your pet wyvern's breath or reducing the cooldown on your jumps.

• Max party size is 6 players, not 4, so other players besides tank/dps/healer are viable. You can bring support classes like Red Mage whose main role is to cast debuffs on the target (paralyze, blind, slow, etc) or buffer roles, or supplemental healers like heal DRG/RDM. This isn't possible under a game designed for parties of 4 players. Even if you could build a heal DRG/RDM in FFXIV, the design of the game means that you would never get accepted into any groups playing as one.

Have you had this post saved for 15 years waiting for the right time to drop it?


Edit: loldrg

[FFXIVuseryo]

On the topic of character builds, I've been playing FFXI over the last three weeks and really enjoy the character customization there.

• You can equip a subjob at half your level. Ie, if you are a level 75 black mage, you can equip White Mage and acquire the White Mage's abilities, spells, and passive traits up to level 37. Want to be a melee class that dual wields? Equip Ninja as your subjob. Want more loot? Equip Thief as your sub and let the loot roll in. You can equip White Mage or Red Mage as your subjob and be able to cast sneak and invisible, which is great for stealthing through high level areas. Some main jobs also have their abilities change depending on what subjob you have equipped. For example, if you are a Dragoon and have a melee subjob equipped, then your pet wyvern gains elemental breath attacks, but if you equip a mage subjob then the wyvern will use a healing breath whenever you cast a spell and someone in your party is below a health threshold. If you play Dragoon/Red Mage, you can become a healer who uses poison to trigger healing breaths (you use Red Mage because it has the Fast Cast trait so you cast spells faster, and because it has access to the poison spell which only costs 5 MP and doesn't give the enemy target TP, though other mage subjobs can work if you want more healing throughput from White Mage spells or the utility of teleports).

• Jobs aren't restricted to using just one weapon. There are usually 2 or 3 (sometimes 4) weapons that a job can wield that the job has a good skill level in. For example, samurai aren't forced to only use katanas. They can use spears if they want. Mages can equip cudgels or daggers or swords and go whack people, and you can build around that if you want, like a cudgel that steals MP.

• You can also acquire equipment that augments your abilities, such as a a Drachen Armet that increases the threshold at which the wyvern's healing breath will trigger (for <33% HP to <50% HP), or a hat that lowers the perpetuation cost of certain avatars (ie, the Accord Hat for Summoner if you want to use Fenrir all the time). You can also use macros and swap gear during combat, ie using the Drachen Armet to trigger the healing breath on a play who is at 40% HP, and then switching to the Wyrm Armet which improves your wyvern's breath effectiveness before the healing breath goes off.

• You can acquire points and invest them into improving certain aspects of your main job, ie improving the effectiveness of your pet wyvern's breath or reducing the cooldown on your jumps.

• Max party size is 6 players, not 4, so other players besides tank/dps/healer are viable. You can bring support classes like Red Mage whose main role is to cast debuffs on the target (paralyze, blind, slow, etc) or buffer roles, or supplemental healers like heal DRG/RDM. This isn't possible under a game designed for parties of 4 players. Even if you could build a heal DRG/RDM in FFXIV, the design of the game means that you would never get accepted into any groups playing as one.

Want to add that though the job system is fun, it is actually very restricting in end game. It creates an illusion of options but it could not be farther from that. You can mostly only gear one job because of the # of tomes and luck it takes. Takes 8 weeks to get one weapon. You can share some of the gear within the role but that's 8 weeks. If you want to play another role it is up to 16 weeks for weapon and chest alone. If you want a shot at loot for alts you are better off starting new characters. And this is because of weekly lockouts on all the end game raids. Now consider how long it takes to level in this game given the MSQ required...so yeah leveling a new character is incredibly painful yet a requirement if you want to play more than one job and still remain competitive.

I honestly don't like 24 man raids at all and want SE to stop adding them. They are not difficult enough to inspire awe or wonder and they are not quick enough to just go through in 10 mins. So every 24 man raid patch you go through a raid-finder type watered down 48 man raid that is ok on the first run through yet really mundane, boring and repetitive in every playthrough after that. You would think that after 10 years they'd have an idea about adding something fun and interesting for horizontal progression but nope. Same old boring chore patches. Honestly 99% of the game felt like a chore I am enjoying my time off and away.

[Grinning Serpent]

We need a second limited job, as much as I know it would be a pain in the absolute ass I would love a "weaponmaster" that plays like ARR where you have jobs and subjobs, you pick a job and get a mess of main skills+some role traits, then a second and third where you get a few of their skills to integrate into it. However, a more manageable and digestable limited job would be beastmaster, albeit I fear it'll just be BLU with extra hoops. The level 80 blu update will do good though, Eden will be hella fun to navigate.

Nah, it's easier: Beastmaster or Puppetmaster. Both classes with established FF precedent, both classes that people have been wanting ever since Limited Jobs was announced as a concept, and it basically lets you put Pokemon into your Final Fantasy.

I cannot think of *anything* that would be a better draw for casual players and a thing to keep them engaged in content lulls than Gotta Collect Em All! and the ability to battle NPCs and other players than a (competently executed) store brand Pokemon class.

Outside of special Pet Battle things (literally just fucking copy WoW's homework, maybe tweak it a little), pets would probably be like Summoner "pets" - purely cosmetic in nature, all of the actual abilities would be treated as originating from the player character. They substantially improved pet responsiveness in Endwalker but there's still some uncomfortable jank in Scholar that just doesn't have a reason for being.

[Yarathir]

- 0 tier sets

Good.

- 0 combat based effects on gear or weapons

Good.

- Universal circular or square arenas

Unlike?

- Somehow, despite 24-mans being heavily marketed in patch trailers they are virtually never voice acted

I can get behind more VA, sure.

- Dogshit PvP

Crystalline Conflict is the only type of PvP in any MMO that doesn't last for long enough to grate on me when I get steamrolled and gives me just enough excitement when I win. So they're doing something well in my eyes, I suppose.

- Slow combat with 0 variation in how you can flesh out your characters damage output (lack of talent or ability trees)

"I never leveled a character beyond 60."

[Ogren]

For sure, but it's important to remember that when I responded to your post it was clearly dictated towards aesthetics given how you compared it to FF14 and not the set bonuses level of complexity, performance, or uniqueness.

With that said I'm INCREDIBLY annoyed with my 4PC Ret set. Flat damage buffs are dumb and I hate them. I'm actually struggling to recall tier set bonuses of the past and they don't seem well documented anywhere, so I'd argue that tends to favor your argument. I *think* I remember a lot of them, but not confidently enough that I could state which tier or expansion so I'll refrain.

Speaking personally I don't actually care for tier sets as a mechanic, but I do think they're valuable in the sense that you can "try" something and if the population ends up liking it, you find a way to reintroduce it next expansion.



I'm a big fan of the robed knight look (hence my Aymeric rant) and I genuinely like most of the PLD AF sets that match that aesthetic. In DF, it looks like this tier they've reverted to the methodology of tailoring the design of tier aesthetics towards the raid, which I've stated I'm not particularly a fan of.

I'll admit I wasn't putting too much thought into it my bad on that, I guess I got that feeling because I was a bit more forgiving of Wrath's designs whereas the later stuff I sort of felt like they could have done "more" than what they advanced on. The MoP Challenge Mode sets are a great example, kinda basic but I loved how they gave some kind of special effect when going into battle and I think that should have carried over to mythic tier sets going forward. (I know they did this probably around Legion era now but for some reason it doesn't "quite" give me that feel of awesomeness like my Paladin CM transmog did.)

But yeah, speaking solely of Paladin there was at least something nice it got each expansion, and I think Cataclysm did the whole "rocks" theme better with its first tier set being something like a crystal knight whereas the Dragonflight one just looks... ugly to me. Sepulcher has been the last good set I've seen, but before that the only set I liked was the warfront one, but ehh it's all really subjective yes.