Evoker 3rd Spec (Black Dragonflight Augmentation)

[fiesta911fiesta]

What if augmentation lets you play all 3 roles depending on your tree setup?
Just a thought

[Teriz]

I don't think they would do that, because there simply isn't enough space in the talent tree to allow that to happen, and Blizzard seems highly against a tank spec.

What COULD happen though is a return to a 2-role specialization like we saw in old Feral Druid. A spec that can both heal and DPS via talent choice could work, and fulfill the concept of "augmentation". DPS could have a debuffing component, and Healing could have a buffing component.

[Stickiler]

I doubt Blizzard would reintroduce the nightmare hellscape of balancing that was a multi-role tree again.

[Teriz]

I doubt Blizzard would reintroduce the nightmare hellscape of balancing that was a multi-role tree again.

Where did Blizzard ever state that Feral Druid was a “hellscape” or even difficult to balance?

[Triceron]

Where did Blizzard ever state that Feral Druid was a “hellscape” or even difficult to balance?

DK's even lost their dual role DPS and Tanking specs, which were in effect for the duration of WOTLK and was admittedly the direction they didn't want to continue taking in the future. Cata was around the time when they reworked DK's, MoP when they split guardian off.

Since that time, LFR and group finder was built to support the single-role specs we have today. I think it'd be difficult to go back to dual spec without revamping all supporting systems to make room for that type of flexibility again. Especially with all the specs we currently have playable, dual specs merely complicate things by having to balance two gameplay types within one spec. Might as well split off a different spec, or save those gameplay concepts for a completely new spec/class for the future.

[Teriz]

DK's even lost their dual role DPS and Tanking specs, which were in effect for the duration of WOTLK and was admittedly the direction they didn't want to continue taking in the future. Cata was around the time when they reworked DK's, MoP when they split guardian off.

Since that time, LFR and group finder was built to support the single-role specs we have today. I think it'd be difficult to go back to dual spec without revamping all supporting systems to make room for that type of flexibility again. Especially with all the specs we currently have playable, dual specs merely complicate things by having to balance two gameplay types within one spec. Might as well split off a different spec, or save those gameplay concepts for a completely new spec/class for the future.

A few things;

1. DKs were a problem from the start, and throughout WotLK you saw Blizzard consistently attempting to rework them. I would certainly consider DKs in WotLK a balancing nightmare. However, Feral as a dual spec lasted for almost a decade, and was only removed when the talent trees no longer supported dual speccing in a single tree.

2. The Evoker specialization trees currently showcase a duality that mirrors dual-roles; One side of Devoker is red, other side is blue, middle is a hybrid of both. Same in Prevoker tree, with green on one side, bronze on other, with mixtures of both and others in center. A third Evoker tree could take that more to an extreme with DPS on one side, and Healing on the other, and a combo of both in center. In addition, the class tree could be altered to further support the nature of the spec.

3. Any player can choose any role their given class allows. Someone specced as a DPS Evoker can still queue for healing and vice versa. In this case, a Dual-role spec could choose either healing or DPS roles and be just fine. They would just need to configure their talents properly in order to make sure they have the necessary output for the role.

4. We're talking about DPS/Heal, not DPS/Tank.

5. Deathwing HotS also had a faux dual-role aspect with the ability to switch from a more AoE-based DPS bruiser to a more utility-driven support bruiser.

[Triceron]

A few things;

1. DKs were a problem from the start, and throughout WotLK you saw Blizzard consistently attempting to rework them. I would certainly consider DKs in WotLK a balancing nightmare. However, Feral as a dual spec lasted for almost a decade, and was only removed when the talent trees no longer supported dual speccing in a single tree.

Feral's melee forms were heavily based on Warrior and Rogue gameplay prior to MoP. They were derivative gameplay of existing specs and didn't really have much of a unique kit outside of being Beast type and having access to core Druid abilities and utility. That started differentiating more one the split happened.

So unless we're talking about Evoker getting watered down gameplay like Feral's dual spec used to be, I don't see it happening really. And this coming from a Feral Tank main from Vanilla well into MOP.

2. The Evoker specialization trees currently showcase a duality that mirrors dual-roles; One side of Devoker is red, other side is blue, middle is a hybrid of both. Same in Prevoker tree, with green on one side, bronze on other, with mixtures of both and others in center. A third Evoker tree could take that more to an extreme with DPS on one side, and Healing on the other, and a combo of both in center. In addition, the class tree could be altered to further support the nature of the spec.

Variations of the same core gameplay on a Talent level is really not equivalent to playing a completely different role. Imagine if Disc Priest was split off between pure DPS and pure Heals through their talents. That would be a balancing nightmare. That isn't how it works right now, even if you observe certain talents leaning towards one path or another. The core gameplay and concept are designed around one role, even if it dips its toes into another. Much like you'd find DPS related talents in any Tank or Healer talent tree. It doesn't mean it is justifiable to split off Resto, Holy, Disc or Mistweaver into DPS specs.

3. Any player can choose any role their given class allows. Someone specced as a DPS Evoker can still queue for healing and vice versa. In this case, a Dual-role spec could choose either healing or DPS roles and be just fine. They would just need to configure their talents properly in order to make sure they have the necessary output for the role.

I'd agree from a player stand point, but Blizzard doesn't actively want to promote this kind of thing happening.

Like you can queue in and swap your spec as your please and mess up the whole system, it doesn't mean Blizzard actively supports this kind of thing though. Dual spec would be more in line with meta gaming than what Blizzard would actually go back to implementing, like trying to play a Hunter as a kite-tank or using a Ret Paladin to provide backup heals. I don't think Blizzard would go out of their way to go back to dual role specs though.

4. We're talking about DPS/Heal, not DPS/Tank.

Dual role is dual role. I don't think there's any reason to go back to that any more than we could talk about going back to Hybrid Tax or some other obscure element of gameplay of days long past.

5. Deathwing HotS also had a faux dual-role aspect with the ability to switch from a more AoE-based DPS bruiser to a more utility-driven support bruiser.

We're talking about WoW, not HOTS. Dual roles work fine in a MOBA and the talent system in HOTS is vibrant enough to offer wildly variant gameplay within a Hero. Varian is also an example of a Bruiser who can be played as Tank or focus more on DPS. Others like Zarya are considered Support, but also are able to fill a Tank role. Or Yrel is a Tanky/Bruisery hero that has plenty of Healing. Yrel coupled with a Support like Abathur could withgo a Healer completely.

HOTS has a completely different meta that has no bearing on WoW's Holy Trinity. It's a game where no Tank or no Heal compositions are completely viable competitively. You can't really draw this comparison to WoW, which is built definitively off the Holy Trinity.

[Teriz]

Feral's melee forms were heavily based on Warrior and Rogue gameplay prior to MoP. They were derivative gameplay of existing specs and didn't really have much of a unique kit outside of being Beast type and having access to core Druid abilities and utility. That started differentiating more one the split happened.

So unless we're talking about Evoker getting watered down gameplay like Feral's dual spec used to be, I don't see it happening really. And this coming from a Feral Tank main from Vanilla well into MOP.

I don't see how that's at all relevant. Are you arguing that since Feral was initially just a riff on Warrior and Rogue that it was somehow easier to balance? Even if true, that doesn't change the fact that Blizzard had a dual role specialization active for years and never mentioned that it was a "nightmare" to balance.

Variations of the same core gameplay on a Talent level is really not equivalent to playing a completely different role. Imagine if Disc Priest was split off between pure DPS and pure Heals through their talents.

You mean like how old feral operated for almost a decade? Yes, I can totally imagine it, because I played it.

That would be a balancing nightmare. That isn't how it works right now, even if you observe certain talents leaning towards one path or another. The core gameplay and concept are designed around one role, even if it dips its toes into another. Much like you'd find DPS related talents in any Tank or Healer talent tree. It doesn't mean it is justifiable to split off Resto, Holy, Disc or Mistweaver into DPS specs.

Again when has Blizzard ever stated that balancing feral was a "nightmare"?

I'd agree from a player stand point, but Blizzard doesn't actively want to promote this kind of thing happening.

Where have they stated this?

Like you can queue in and swap your spec as your please and mess up the whole system, it doesn't mean Blizzard actively supports this kind of thing though. Dual spec would be more in line with meta gaming than what Blizzard would actually go back to implementing, like trying to play a Hunter as a kite-tank or using a Ret Paladin to provide backup heals. I don't think Blizzard would go out of their way to go back to dual role specs though.

How is this any different than a Devoker queuing as a healing spec and just doing DPS the entire time and sinking the group, or a Ret Paladin queuing as a tank and simply refusing to switch specs? This happens all the time. Blizzard gives players the freedom to screw up. If someone is using a Dual-role spec and they don't want to choose the talents to make the spec viable in either of its roles, that's on the player, not Blizzard.

Also Blizzard describes Evokers as an "advanced class". Such a responsibility of choosing the right talents to fit your role would fit that concept as well.

Dual role is dual role. I don't think there's any reason to go back to that any more than we could talk about going back to Hybrid Tax or some other obscure element of gameplay of days long past.

The reason to go back to that is to capture the essence of the black dragon concept, create an advanced specialization for an advanced class, and develop a spec that properly captures the idea of "augmentation" without having to resort to a support spec that would have much larger balancing issues.

We're talking about WoW, not HOTS. Dual roles work fine in a MOBA and the talent system in HOTS is vibrant enough to offer wildly variant gameplay within a Hero. Varian is also an example of a Bruiser who can be played as Tank or focus more on DPS. Others like Zarya are considered Support, but also are able to fill a Tank role. That has no bearing on WoW's Holy Trinity.

Merely bringing up the point that Blizzard could be looking towards their Deathwing concept for inspiration for a potential black dragon-based spec.

[Triceron]

I don't see how that's at all relevant. Are you arguing that since Feral was initially just a riff on Warrior and Rogue that it was somehow easier to balance? Even if true, that doesn't change the fact that Blizzard had a dual role specialization active for years and never mentioned that it was a "nightmare" to balance.

It doesn't have to be a nightmare to balance to make a point that Blizzard isn't intent on going back to an antiquated system that doesn't fit their modern design.

Again when has Blizzard ever stated that balancing feral was a "nightmare"?

4. We're talking about DPS/Heal, not DPS/Tank.

Suddenly you're interested in talking about DPS/Tank?

Sticklier mentioned the hellscape of a multi-role tree. You brought up Feral, but it wasn't the only multi-role spec that existed in WoW. As we both acknowledge, DK had that and was a balancing nightmare, which we both acknowledged it to be.

Feral was fine for the most part, but it WAS extremely watered down. It had the least mechanics for Tanking of all Tanks, and most of their abilities were literally translated from the Warrior. It merely existed as a Hybrid spec and was intended to be for a long time, marred by Hybrid Tax for a good chunk of it. Let's not forget this.

Tanking was also so basic back then that it didn't take much to accomplish. That's why even a Warlock with a Glyph was capable of filling that role. MoP is when they decided to overhaul that and make each spec distinct to one role, and they've carried that design philosophy to this day.

How is this any different than a Devoker queuing as a healing spec and just doing DPS the entire time and sinking the group, or a Ret Paladin queuing as a tank and simply refusing to switch specs? This happens all the time. Blizzard gives players the freedom to screw up. If someone is using a Dual-role spec and they don't want to choose the talents to make the spec viable in either of its roles, that's on the player, not Blizzard.

The difference is that is intentional manipulation of mechanics to screw things up. Whereas a Dual Spec rides the line in a way that is fallible to confusion, and ultimately screws up the meta. If you bring an Arms Warrior, Blizz intends them to be played as DPS. Not going into a Defensive stance, equipping a shield, and tanking. It can be potentially played that way, but Blizzard isn't intent on building the classes like that because there are already plenty of alternatives to that. That's why modern Spec design is the way it is.

I'm not arguing against your sentiments here, I'm arguing that Blizzard isn't building the game in the Vanilla style of flexible Specializations as we used to have. It's not like Vanilla's trees where you could literally build a Hybrid that was completely viable for certain tasks in a raid, like Feral Tanking, Arms Off Tanking, or as a Healer who casts infinite low-level heals with talents deep into DPS tree for high mana regen.

If Blizzard decided to go back to flexible Specs, I'd be all for it. I would love to play a Druid that was ACTUALLY a viable Hybrid who could use all forms, a true Jack of All Trades. But that's not how modern WOW is designed, and we have to be mindful of that.

The reason to go back to that is to capture the essence of the black dragon concept, create an advanced specialization for an advanced class, and develop a spec that properly captures the idea of "augmentation" without having to resort to a support spec that would have much larger balancing issues.

Nah, the only reason to go back is to fit your argument and opinion. Again, you're not sensibly talking about modern WoW's intended design, you're talking about what you'd like to see. And I'm fine if you regard it that way, just don't mix things up by bringing up old design and trying to pawn it off as being relevant to modern design. It's really not.

Like the stuff you mentioned in the Prevoker trees being sided one way or the other. Every Healer tree has dedicated DPS-related talents. It doesn't correlate to them being viable DPS roles. It's a huge disparity between your observation and your intentions.

Merely bringing up the point that Blizzard could be looking towards their Deathwing concept for inspiration for a potential black dragon-based spec.

We're not lacking in creative concepts for dual specs. We're lacking in any interest on Blizzard's part to mold WoW back into that type of game, that is not so dependent on the Holy Trinity as it once was.

I mean if Blizzard really wanted to, they could literally open up new roles simply through Glyphs, like Warlocks and Boomkins used to be able to Tank/Offtank with. We know it's possible. It doesn't mean Blizzard is ever going to adopt that back into their modern design philosophy.

[Teriz]

It doesn't have to be a nightmare to balance to make a point that Blizzard isn't intent on going back to an antiquated system that doesn't fit their modern design.

Okay, and when has Blizzard stated that this is an antiquated system they don't want to go back to? They already moved back towards old-style talent trees, why wouldn't they want to utilize a dual-role spec?

Also my point is that just because it was a riff on Combat Rogue and Prot Warrior doesn't mean it was any easier to balance. Blizzard would still be dealing with balancing out the hardiness of a prot warrior with the damage potential of a Rogue, and they pretty much accomplished that for multiple expansions. Also Feral Druid had abilities like Leader of the Pack and Nurturing Instinct that were very uniquely Druid and made them quite a bit different than Warriors and Rogues, despite utilizing their resource and having mirrors of some of their abilities.

4. We're talking about DPS/Heal, not DPS/Tank.

Suddenly you're interested in talking about DPS/Tank?

Sticklier mentioned the hellscape of a multi-role tree. You brought up Feral, but it wasn't the only multi-role spec that existed in WoW. As we both acknowledge, DK had that and was a balancing nightmare, which we both acknowledged it to be.

I was talking about Feral since it lasted for a very long time. DK dual role was a flash in the pan experiment that barely survived its first expansion. Why would we be talking about the failed experiment and not the successful one that was only removed because of a shift in talent tree design?

Further, my point is that healing/DPS should be an easier load to balance because healing doesn't have the natural/passive toughness that a tank would have. Healers have to cast spells in order to survive.

Feral was fine for the most part, but it WAS extremely watered down. It had the least mechanics for Tanking of all Tanks, and most of their abilities were literally translated from the Warrior. It merely existed as a Hybrid spec and was intended to be for a long time, marred by Hybrid Tax for a good chunk of it. Let's not forget this.

This is completely an opinion. I found Feral to be enjoyable because it embraced the hybridity of the druid class. Talents like Leader of the Pack, Heart of the Wild, Feral Charge, and Nurturing Instinct and abilities like Faerie Fire (Bear form) made for a very unique and enjoyable experience that felt uniquely Druid.

The difference is that is intentional manipulation of mechanics to screw things up. Whereas a Dual Spec rides the line in a way that is fallible to confusion, and ultimately screws up the meta. If you bring an Arms Warrior, Blizz intends them to be played as DPS. Not going into a Defensive stance, equipping a shield, and tanking. It can be potentially played that way, but Blizzard isn't intent on building the classes like that because there are already plenty of alternatives to that. That's why modern Spec design is the way it is.

Again, we had almost a decade of this exact scenario taking place and what you're describing never happened. Blizzard only split up Feral because the new talent system in MoP didn't support a dual-role specialization. Also the nature of Evokers plays right along with this concept because like Druids they're not weapon-reliant for attacks and abilities.

I'm not arguing against your sentiments here, I'm arguing that Blizzard isn't building the game in the Vanilla style of flexible Specializations as we used to have. It's not like Vanilla's trees where you could literally build a Hybrid that was completely viable for certain tasks in a raid, like Feral Tanking, Arms Off Tanking, or as a Healer who casts infinite low-level heals with talents deep into DPS tree for high mana regen.

If Blizzard decided to go back to flexible Specs, I'd be all for it. I would love to play a Druid that was ACTUALLY a viable Hybrid who could use all forms, a true Jack of All Trades. But that's not how modern WOW is designed, and we have to be mindful of that.

Again, we're talking about a specialization that lasted long after Vanilla WoW. Even when the roles were better defined as we entered WotLK and the flexible specializations you're referring to began to die off, dual-role feral persisted for 4 more years.

Nah, the only reason to go back is to fit your argument and opinion. Again, you're not sensibly talking about modern WoW's intended design, you're talking about what you'd like to see. And I'm fine if you regard it that way, just don't mix things up by bringing up old design and trying to pawn it off as being relevant to modern design. It's really not.

Again, I'd love to see where BLizzard has ever stated that dual-role specializations are no longer part of WoW's intended design.

Like the stuff you mentioned in the Prevoker trees being sided one way or the other. Every Healer tree has dedicated DPS-related talents. It doesn't correlate to them being viable DPS roles. It's a huge disparity between your observation and your intentions.

Except the trees ARE split on either side by their corresponding dragon aspect. Red spells are on one side of the tree, and blue spells are on the other in the Devastation spec tree, that's simply a fact. Why can't the black dragon spec tree have DPS talents on one side, healing talents on the other, and talents in the middle that support both?

We're not lacking in creative concepts for dual specs. We're lacking in any interest on Blizzard's part to mold WoW back into that type of game, that is not so dependent on the Holy Trinity as it once was.

Based on what evidence?

[Triceron]

Okay, and when has Blizzard stated that this is an antiquated system they don't want to go back to? They already moved back towards old-style talent trees, why wouldn't they want to utilize a dual-role spec?

The modern Talent system isn't the one of Vanilla. There is more customization options with the separation of Core and Spec talent trees, but there is no actual hybridization like we had with Vanilla. It has all the Vanilla Talent Tree aesthetics, but carries little of its original design flexibility.

Again, we had almost a decade of this exact scenario taking place and what you're describing never happened. Blizzard only split up Feral because the new talent system in MoP didn't support a dual-role specialization. Also the nature of Evokers plays right along with this concept because like Druids they're not weapon-reliant for attacks and abilities.

The new talent system in Dragonflight doesn't support a dual-role specialization either. What you've been pointing out are merely branches of a single role, not multiple roles.

Again, we're talking about a specialization that lasted long after Vanilla WoW. Even when the roles were better defined as we entered WotLK and the flexible specializations you're referring to began to die off, dual-role feral persisted for 4 more years.

And we're long past WOTLK and Cata.

Like I said, I'd be happy to advocate for Glyphs opening up new roles too, but that ship has sailed.

Again, I'd love to see where BLizzard has ever stated that dual-role specializations are no longer part of WoW's intended design.

I'm not discounting the possibility, I'm pointing at how it's not been in their intended design for over a decade now, with absolutely no indication they'd be interested in bringing it back for any reason.

What classes would you say have hinted at dual spec even being an option in modern WoW? Even the most hybrid of specs like Discipline or Arms Warrior are very clearly defined for one role, not multiple. Devastation and Preservation fit that same design with no deviation towards actual hybridization.

Except the trees ARE split on either side by their corresponding dragon aspect.

Which only accounts for theme, not roles.

Green and Bronze perform the same role in their corresponding branches. Elemental Shaman talents are split in a similar way; Storm-based talents on the far left, Fire-based talents on the far right. They aren't intended to perform different roles.

If they did intend Dual Roles, they could have easily just done away with the Core Talent Tree and allow people to pick and choose from any two Spec trees as they see fit. That's literally how it worked in Vanilla and allowed dual roles to be a possibility. Modern Talent and Spec related systems are designed around a single role. Make sense?

I'm not saying they couldn't do that in the future either. I'm literally pointing out that their modern design has never intended it to be a thing, and it doesn't look like they even want it back. I'm addressing how you're percieving the Evoker talent trees to somehow be reflective of dual roles, when all you're pointing out is a duality of themes within the same role.

[Teriz]

The modern Talent system isn't the one of Vanilla. There is more customization options with the separation of Core and Spec talent trees, but there is no actual hybridization like we had with Vanilla. It has all the Vanilla Talent Tree aesthetics, but carries little of its original design flexibility.

I never said that the new talent trees are the same as vanilla, I said that they're a return to the structure of talent trees from Vanilla- Cataclysm. Again, the main reason Feral was altered was to fit into the MoP talent system. With a return to more traditional-styled talent trees, the opportunity for a dual-role class returns with it.

The new talent system in Dragonflight doesn't support a dual-role specialization either. What you've been pointing out are merely branches of a single role, not multiple roles.

We don't know that since the new Evoker class only had two specs. It's quite possible that the supposed 3rd spec could in fact be a dual-role spec (if it happens). That could potentially explain why its release was delayed, because of additional balancing needs.

And we're long past WOTLK and Cata.

But we're also back to more traditional styled talent trees that supported dual-role specializations.

Like I said, I'd be happy to advocate for Glyphs opening up new roles too, but that ship has sailed.

Unlike dual-role specializations, Blizzard stated plainly that they didn't want entire specs to be locked behind glyphs or single talents.

I'm not discounting the possibility, I'm pointing at how it's not been in their intended design for over a decade now, with absolutely no indication they'd be interested in bringing it back for any reason.

Well that isn't true. Blizzard did attempt a dual-role spec after the Guardian/Feral split via Protection Warrior and Gladiator Stance during WoD. Again, they said that they didn't want to continue to do stuff like that because they didn't want entire specs locked behind glyphs or single talents. However, balance issues were NEVER stated as a reason the concept was nixed.

So yeah, Prot Warrior during WoD was a Tank/DPS dual-role spec. That was only a little over six years ago.

Which only accounts for theme, not roles.

And I'm saying the theme could easily correspond with the role if Blizzard designed it that way (Shadowflame=DPS, Earthwarder=Healing). Further, the current talent trees allow plenty of design space for blizzard to do it. Thanks to both the class tree and the specialization tree, and the ability to swap talents/specs on the fly, it should be even EASIER to construct a dual-role spec now than in older versions of WoW.

[Unholyground]

My guess is that it's going to be a bursty mid range DPS spec that also has really powerful short duration Buffs for every other role in the group. They may not call it support from a role perspective but it will definitely have that in the kit.

[Vaedan]

DK's even lost their dual role DPS and Tanking specs, which were in effect for the duration of WOTLK and was admittedly the direction they didn't want to continue taking in the future. Cata was around the time when they reworked DK's, MoP when they split guardian off.

Since that time, LFR and group finder was built to support the single-role specs we have today. I think it'd be difficult to go back to dual spec without revamping all supporting systems to make room for that type of flexibility again. Especially with all the specs we currently have playable, dual specs merely complicate things by having to balance two gameplay types within one spec. Might as well split off a different spec, or save those gameplay concepts for a completely new spec/class for the future.

I would only add that dual specs had some merits in past due to talent respecs were somewhat limited and locked to class trainers, which meant you could not easily do it on the move. That made a place for people who could fit into different roles by just swapping gear.

That does not apply to the game we have nowadays. You can freely adjust your talents or change your spec entirely as long as you are out of combat. That makes dual specs virtually not needed. Plus as you said, they had balancing issues.

I highly doubt we will see them again.

[Triceron]

I never said that the new talent trees are the same as vanilla, I said that they're a return to the structure of talent trees from Vanilla- Cataclysm.

Right.

But the structures aren't what allowed Dual Roles and Hybridization to be possible alone. They never were limited to Core + 1 Spec talent trees. They were open between all Specs.

If you want to argue in favour of Dual Spec, you would have to make an argument for something like having open access to all Talent trees. Otherwise, there is literally no reason to keep the current Spec system if all roles can be fluidly changed between. At that point, we would only need to have Specs for the sake of theme, while any spec would be open to any role based on whatever branch you take in the Talent tree.

Which is exactly what they tried with the DK, and we all know how that panned out.

And I'm saying the theme could easily correspond with the role if Blizzard designed it that way (Shadowflame=DPS, Earthwarder=Healing).

Yes, and they could revert the DK back to having all dual roles as well, with whatever means of balance you think it would work and equate to Feral Druids. Do you consider it realistic at this point in time? Do you believe Blizzard would be interested in going that route? Open to the possibility, sure. Interested at all, probably not.

[Teriz]

My guess is that it's going to be a bursty mid range DPS spec that also has really powerful short duration Buffs for every other role in the group. They may not call it support from a role perspective but it will definitely have that in the kit.

I could see a sort of inverted Discipline-style spec that is DPS instead of healing. There are these two spells floating around;

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=404269/ebon-might

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=409217/azure-prowess

Which definitely fit under that concept. Ebon Might especially fits the concept of augmentation explained in the Neltharion voice lines.

- - - Updated - - -

Right.

But the structures aren't what allowed Dual Roles and Hybridization to be possible alone. They never were limited to Core + 1 Spec talent trees. They were open between all Specs.

If you want to argue in favour of Dual Spec, you would have to make an argument for something like having open access to all Talent trees. Otherwise, there is literally no reason to keep the current Spec system if all roles can be fluidly changed between. At that point, we would only need to have Specs for the sake of theme, while any spec would be open to any role based on whatever branch you take in the Talent tree.

Which is exactly what they tried with the DK, and we all know how that panned out.

I would argue that it was the structure, since it was the talent structural change in MoP that primarily caused Feral to be split into two specs. We know that it wasn't a lack of desire, balance or anything like that because Blizzard attempted a dual-spec again with Prot Warrior in WoD.

Yes, and they could revert the DK back to having all dual roles as well, with whatever means of balance you think it would work and equate to Feral Druids. Do you consider it realistic at this point in time? Do you believe Blizzard would be interested in going that route? Open to the possibility, sure. Interested at all, probably not.

Well no because DK and Druid specs are now well defined. We're talking about a possible spec that is described as;

wield the essence of the Black Dragonflight to augment all those around you with my power.

Learn the weaknesses of our foes and amplify the strength of our allies.

There's only so many ways this can go. Dual-role specialization is one of them.

[Hobbidaggy]

Ion just announced there is no new spec coming for evokers. New evoker spec is with the Shaman Tank and Demon Hunter new spec, never say never but probably never.

Soooo can we stop all these threads now?

Here is the link to the interview because I know there are people who will say “where is the proof?”
https://www.wowhead.com/news/sportsk...gustine-332629

[Teriz]

Ion just announced there is no new spec coming for evokers.

In 10.1….. there’s still 10.1.5, 10.1.7, 10.2, and the remainder of Dragonflight.

[Eosia]

In 10.1….. there’s still 10.1.5, 10.1.7, 10.2, and the remainder of Dragonflight.

Give it a rest already. They're not going to add it in a Patch version of the game. You've been told this over and over and over and over and over in the 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other threads that you post about this.

Patch 10.x.z is IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. And they're not going to release a new spec with ~60 days testing on the PTR. Blizzard has trouble balancing a spec with 5-7 months of testing.

[Teriz]

Give it a rest already. They're not going to add it in a Patch version of the game. You've been told this over and over and over and over and over in the 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other threads that you post about this.

Patch 10.x.z is IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. And they're not going to release a new spec with ~60 days testing on the PTR. Blizzard has trouble balancing a spec with 5-7 months of testing.

Ion didn’t say that releasing a spec in the middle of an expansion would be a problem. In fact when asked, he literally said “anything is possible”, including releasing a new spec mid-expansion.

Anyway, the other thread deals with this topic. This thread deals with what the 3rd spec could be. If you want to discuss it or not the new spec will come, go to the other thread.