Titan Grip = Weaksause?

[Deleted]

Uhhhhhhm You won't need HS to dump rage in WotLK anymore ...... I will only say 1 word: Bloodsurge

Oh and btw next time try using slam exactly 0,4 seconds before your next weapon swing (use Quartz) try it now thank me later

[Guran]

TG is a white DPS boost.
TG boosts Whirlwind damage
TG boosts (your now instant) Slam damage
TG boosts Deep Wounds damage (due to less refreshing)
TG receives benefits from 2H Weapon spec
TG receives benefits from itemization (except for DKs, no DW using 1H weaps gets 2 AP from str)

TG does lose damage from Heroic Strike rage dumps, but seriously;
The current rage dump vs the WLK rage dump
Considering that BB gets extra damage on the bleed from Bloodletting and it will probably scale with your AP, I'm gonna go for the EXTRA attack rather then the ability that CONVERTS my white into yellow attacks.

[Knuffelbert]

Oh and btw next time try using slam exactly 0,4 seconds before your next weapon swing (use Quartz) try it now thank me later

Doesn't work with good connections. Slam cast delays the auto swing.

[Karpalo]

__________________________________________________________________________________________ ________

1) White attacks have 28% chance to miss. Yellow attacks have 9% chance to miss. HS turns white attack into yellow attack. Ergo, HS gives +19% hit for one attack

2) White attacks have a chance to glance, causing fractional damage. Yellow attacks do not glance. HS turns white attack into yellow attack. Ergo, HS removes chance of glance for one attack

3) Haste gives the same benefit regardless of base weapon speed.

4) Heroic strike provides +210 damage (@70, 2.4.3 build).

210 damage per 1.85 seconds (flurried hasted 1H) means +114 DPS (not counting hit, glance benefit) at the cost of 15 + 13 (rage from MH swing for 650 dmg after armor with 2.6 spd weapon) = 28 rage = +7.5dmg per rage

210 damage per 3 seconds (flurried hasted 3.5 2H with TG penalty) means +70 DPS at the cost of 15 + 19 (rage from 2H swing for 900 after armor with 3.5 speed) = 34 rage = 6.1dmg per rage.

So, lower DPS and lower D/R

actually haste gives more for titan grip cause of the 20% speed reduce. White dmg ap is calculated by weapon speed meaning you get 20% more with titan grip. 5/5 flurry with TG 29.5% shaman wf totem 24% for TG warrior.

[Varithorn2]

TG is not a white DPS boost.

Fixed

[Eucep]

So far I am with 1/5 titan grip and gone deep as possible towards impale, it's working well and I do good dps so far, but I do get a feeling I am really needing to focus on crit, haste and hit, more then before.

[bbr]

Using two big 2 handers, also allows you the benefits of getting more stats on each weapon. 1h weapons tend to have less stats on them.
That alone will give you a quite significant boost in dps.

[Bucketojoy]

Basically, all of your white damage will be higher numbers further apart, but your yellow damage will most likely increase by ~50%. If you're a good warrior, this is good. If you're a shitty warrior and hang at 100 rage all of the time, then you fail and this talent won't help you at all.

[Asmo]

Now I don't play a warrior, but browsing this topic I have to ask, will the new WF totem that gives +20% haste cancel out the penalty from TG?

I also noticed that there are a lot of 2 handed weapons (from the starting areas at least) That have oddly fast Attack Speeds and A veritable asston of hit and haste. I think one had something like 70 hit.

So with 2handers in the 3.0-3.2 range, WF tot, Flurry, haste gear, and Massive hit plate gear, would TG be okay?

[Varithorn2]

TG does not need to stack haste, all they need to do is stack crit for 100% flurry uptime, better than any amount of haste. But doing this messes up the warrior's priority (which should be str>>crit). This causes dps to be lost since you wouldn't gain as much AP as being a normal 2.6 speed spec

[relaxok]

So many people in this thread are living in the past (pre-BC) and doing terrible damage.

Listen to the poster who was talking about how important heroic strike damage is - look at ANY top PvE guild's WWS parse who runs a fury warrior, heroic strike willl be ~30% of the overall damage, more than bloodthirst and way more than whirlwind, which is overrated for single target bosses especially. I think what the real world results have yielded is that stacking so much hit like the old days means you lose a tremendous amount of AP and Crit (and thus flurry) - much better to really buff those stats, and use a lot of HS to make up for the DW penalty. Like i said, we're not making stuff up -- check out the PvE parses of guilds like SK Gaming, Blood Legion, Abananax (tho they're dead), etc.. THE top fury DPS warriors use a ton of heroic strike, it's not just a once in a blue moon rage dump. The results speak for themselves.

[strajker]

Fixed

not to people for which is 2+2 rocket since amirite?

and if u had any clue about game mechanics and warrior class u would know that 100% crit is not possible

[strajker]

So many people in this thread are living in the past (pre-BC) and doing terrible damage.

Listen to the poster who was talking about how important heroic strike damage is - look at ANY top PvE guild's WWS parse who runs a fury warrior, heroic strike willl be ~30% of the overall damage, more than bloodthirst and way more than whirlwind, which is overrated for single target bosses especially. I think what the real world results have yielded is that stacking so much hit like the old days means you lose a tremendous amount of AP and Crit (and thus flurry) - much better to really buff those stats, and use a lot of HS to make up for the DW penalty. Like i said, we're not making stuff up -- check out the PvE parses of guilds like SK Gaming, Blood Legion, Abananax (tho they're dead), etc.. THE top fury DPS warriors use a ton of heroic strike, it's not just a once in a blue moon rage dump. The results speak for themselves.

my heroic strike is like 25% of my dps usually i tend to stop spamming it due to aggro usually but the fact that u are spamming it with 1h doesnt mean that u have to do it with titan grip

[mrchee]

So many people in this thread are living in the past (pre-BC) and doing terrible damage.

Listen to the poster who was talking about how important heroic strike damage is - look at ANY top PvE guild's WWS parse who runs a fury warrior, heroic strike willl be ~30% of the overall damage, more than bloodthirst and way more than whirlwind, which is overrated for single target bosses especially. I think what the real world results have yielded is that stacking so much hit like the old days means you lose a tremendous amount of AP and Crit (and thus flurry) - much better to really buff those stats, and use a lot of HS to make up for the DW penalty. Like i said, we're not making stuff up -- check out the PvE parses of guilds like SK Gaming, Blood Legion, Abananax (tho they're dead), etc.. THE top fury DPS warriors use a ton of heroic strike, it's not just a once in a blue moon rage dump. The results speak for themselves.

Thank you sir

[Finer08]

Thank you sir

Agreed, when I'm not Blood Frenzy specced in BT, I'm using HS all the time, and is AT LEAST 30% of my total damage.

[mrchee]

Agreed, when I'm not Blood Frenzy specced in BT, I'm using HS all the time, and is AT LEAST 30% of my total damage.

Thats why I'm thinking a 25/46 build (updated 17/44 with axe/sword spec) or 17/46/8 (17/44 with incite) are much better options than TG

[Finer08]

Thats why I'm thinking a 25/46 build (updated 17/44 with axe/sword spec) or 17/46/8 (17/44 with incite) are much better options than TG

Yeah, I just built a spec with incite and without TG, I dunno yet, it'll just have to be something to test once WotLK is actually out, or beta people can test it in raids

[ayhanap]

you get ONE instant slam per bloodsurge proc.

And i was doing slam rotations instinctively way before I understood anything about mechanics of this game or before anyone talked about it, when I used to raid kara as 20/41 2H fury back in april-may or so of 2007

The point is, I understand warrior mechanics back to front... and the way it is implemented at the moment, Titan Grip flat-out sucks completely, with no chance to compete.

There is still hope that Blizz will fix it; that is why threads like this exist here and on the beta forum, and why I post my posts

Faster weapon doesnt mean better rage, and haste having the same effect regardless of weapon speed doesnt mean faster weapons are slower.
Didnt get into calculations but as someone mentioned ealier dont forget the fact that stats that 2H weapons have..
And your theory of HS bonus being more efficient than the swing damage is not predictable from now, the swing damage may get superior as u gear up..

[GT4]

Just to keep it clear:
In a raid situation, Titan's Grip is a large white DPS decrease, you may ask why, here is the reason:
Titan's Grip decreases your attack speed by 20%, not your wielded weapon's speed by 20%.
That means you do not only lose 20% of your weapon's DPS but also 20% of your DPS you gain by AP.
In full Sunwell gear your average 1h Weapon DPS is ~110 while your average 2h Weapon DPS is ~143, so you'd get a (143/1.2)-110=9.17 char screen DPS buff from the changed weapon but reduce your char screen DPS from AP by 20%, so if you have more than 9.17*14*100/20=641.9 AP, you will actually lose white DPS, I believe even your naked base AP with Battleshout is higher than that.


That said, what are the benefits of it?

Usually same tier 2h weapons have 30% more DPS than their 1h counterparts and are 37.5% slower (tested with S1-S4 weapons).
So the Whirlwind/Slam "weapon damage" formulas are, assuming same tier weapons and dps/speed refering to the 1h weapon stats:
1h: dps*speed+ap/14*2.4
2h: dps*1.3*speed*1.375+ap*3.3=dps*speed*1.7875+ap/14*2.4*1.375
Assuming that you usually get at least the same and a maximum of 4 times the amount of DPS from AP as from your weapon, that means a boost of 45.75%-58.125% in weapon damage.

Assuming your decreased rage generation is enough, you'll also gain more effective damage per rage from Heroic Strike and Cleave in raid situations, as most of their benefit (if you're geared properly) is increasing the damage of the hit percentually by reducing its miss chance by up to 19% (HS and Cleave) and giving an additional weapon hit (Cleave). However I suppose this is mostly countered by the decreased rage generation.

Of course you also get on average 1/(27/64)=2.37 times as much stats from your weapons.

When you put together above points you get:
+ ~137% weapon stats
+ ~8.33% weapon DPS
+ ~50% Slam/WW damage
+ increase in Cleave/Heroic Strike rage efficiency
- 20% white DPS from AP
- ~18% rage generation

That's assuming you put 5 points into it, I wouldn't even want to look on the numbers when you don't.
Now this may look as it's a pretty good talent, but as in endgame raids you usually have ~70% of your damage coming from white hits and Heroic Strike or Cleave and ~70% of your DPS is from AP, it's not really looking good as a 5 points talent.

[Karpalo]

Now I don't play a warrior, but browsing this topic I have to ask, will the new WF totem that gives +20% haste cancel out the penalty from TG?

I also noticed that there are a lot of 2 handed weapons (from the starting areas at least) That have oddly fast Attack Speeds and A veritable asston of hit and haste. I think one had something like 70 hit.

So with 2handers in the 3.0-3.2 range, WF tot, Flurry, haste gear, and Massive hit plate gear, would TG be okay?

apparently it doesnt cancel the effect out but rather goes "over the top" making it better