WTF PvP Set?

[Seraphk]

This is the first topic I've ever started on these forums in all of my posts.

But, seriously, the PvP Feral set does not have intellect on it what-so-ever. If any of you are PvP Ferals like myself, you know that you die in arena more times from going OOM than you do from someone killing you in that amount of time. I actually regret quitting Alliance and going Horde simply because my NE Druid was able to sit in the middle of AV engagements and drink when I went OOM from shifting and the stealth drinking has proved to be just as potent in arenas as well.

That said -- What is in Blizzards mind at the moment? Between our tanking gear having less armor, less stamina, and no strength and our PvP gear having no Intellect... I have no idea what they plan on doing, but it better be drastic & it better involve additional passive mitigation with a great reduction to shifting costs for Feral Druids. Rogue itemization completely fails to adhere to a Feral Druid playstyle when it comes to tanking and PvP.

There's no possible way without drastic changes to mechanics of scalability and costs regarding spells/shifting that they can make up for the loss of all the stats that our previous armor had. I've been very, very patient thusfar throughout beta telling myself, "Tier gear and PvP gear will be different. They'll have the stats we need because Tier gear is specifically for our class. They're going to have to uniquely make it in the first place and grant is unique set bonuses. Thus, they'll grant it unique stats and everything will be fine. Feral Druids will just come to rely on their Tier gear like they've done in BC." With the release of this PvP armor, I appear to be wrong. Thus the reason I am posting.

I wish they would just cut their losses and give us Mail allowing us to share absolutely PERFECT itemization stats with Hunters/Shamans. Looking at their gear -- Agility/Stamina/Int with additional armor -- It's absolutely perfect for a Feral Druid. However, we all know that this is not a possibility simply due to the fact that it would further buff Resto Druids. However, if you just look at how perfect the stats are for Hunter/Shaman mail, it makes you sick that Blizzard decided to make us share itemization with Rogues.

I don't get it. Anyone else care to shed some logic on the situation or think they know what Blizzard has in mind? Feel free to speak up.

[Karpalo]

Well feral seems very different what it was in BC. You could actually run with a healer now when you got your own snare 20% more healing on you in catform ect. Also if I  dont remember wrong ferals were complaining* in BC that int and healing was waste of item budget so you gotta be careful what you ask for.

[Mezz]

Maybe they will make you acctualy think twice if you really want shift out of that nova or rather wait for the ele.
To actually NOT be unkitable anymore so even druids need some skill to have success.

Awesome!

[Statix]

Druids are overpowered. I mean, I've never seen any Druid go oom. As a Mage, I can get the Druid to 5%, sure. But if he gets one heal, just one, he's back to 80%. No chance in hell I can kill him now. He'll just keep healing and I'll keep losing mana. In the end the Druid will have 50% of his mana left and I'll be oom. Giving the Druid the chance to slowly kill me.

And what if you go oom? You just change to Cat Form or Bear Form and you can still do a lot of damage with endless energy or endless rage. Please, if you whine about going oom, you just can't play your class.

[Paroxysm]

Mail for druids will never happen. If your gear for WoTLK isn't shaping up properly, start hitting up some beta testers. But asking for mail is probably a bit much. Let's just put everyone in plate so they survive in PvP more, right?

[Herrera]

Could you provide a link to the druid pvp set in WLK? Thanks.

[Nedy]

you're doin it wrong mage ;D

[Seraphk]

Well feral seems very different what it was in BC. You could actually run with a healer now when you got your own snare 20% more healing on you in catform ect. Also if I dont remember wrong ferals were compalining in BC that int and healing was waste of item budget so you gotta be careful what you ask for.

Idiotic Ferals that didn't PvP and didn't powershift adequately in PvE were the ones asking for Int to be removed from gear.

The simple fact of that matter is that if you powershift adequately now in PvE at BT/SWP level in Tier 6 gear, you will be within 20 - 30% mana at the end of boss fights with Arcane Brilliance / Blessing of Wisdom / Mana Spring Totem / Blessing of Kings all on you. I know that my intellect on Tier 6 grants me more than 20 - 30% additional mana meaning my powershifting for PvE DPS is going to go down the drain. The sad part is that they just made it even more effective than it was before -- Perhaps this is a reason to nerf it while a reason for me not to worry about it as much... In PvE.

But, as far as I can tell, now increasing our Savage Roar to 40% -- It's completely pathetic that our class scales so poorly in DPS as to require a finisher which increases our AP by 40%. Powershifting is the primary way through which Ferals produce additional DPS. Thus, the Ferals that didn't even PvP requiring int for heals, CCs, snare/immobilize shifts, Scare Beast/Hibernate shifts, rank 1 Moonfire on totems -- Were still completely stupid for asking Int to be taken off Feral gear because powershifting is the only means by which Ferals were able to offer higher, scaling DPS.

Thus, the Ferals that asked for this were morons. And definitely did not do arenas.


As for the rest of the posts, you're talking about Resto Druids except for Mezz, whom I assume you play a Frost Mage? I wouldn't be so bias towards Feral Druids anymore, your Frost spells are going to have a chance to treat a target as if it is frozen even if it isn't actually immobilized. You'll have a much better chance against Ferals.

Rabbik -- it's quite impressive you went 9 to 1 on a Resto Druid in S2. I've gone 32 to 4 on a Feral Druid/Mutilate Rogue team -- After which a freaking Disc Priest/Rogue team stole took over 100 points from my Mutilate Rogue partner and I. Ugh... That was both the happiest and worst night of arenas ever. But, thank you for confirming that any idiot can get on a Resto Druid and get 1850 in a week though. I have an Alliance Druid in S1 Boomkin/instance healing gear. This season, my old Alliance friend asked me to log on and do some arenas with him on his Warrior alt so he could get free points. We went 7 to 3 up against some combos that were in full Vengeful gear. Win traders I assumed to be based on the hour of the night it was and how frequently we kept getting them.

Yes Paroxysm, as I said, there's no way to give Druids mail without buffing Resto even more even though -- Considering Tier 6 Druid armor values with Tier 6 equivalent Hunter/Shaman gear, there was only about a 30 - 35% difference in the amount of armor compared to Tier 6 Resto Druid versus Tier 6 Hunter/Shaman at around a 200% difference. Mail would be a little too much for their armor value as it is, but it wasn't too terribly far off in BC in a sense of base armor. Also, in Humanoid/Cat form, the Moonking/Feral Druid are the most defenseless class in the game minus Barkskin. The ability to wear mail would improve that survivability in Humanoid/Cat Form, but -- once again -- not without improving that of the overpowered Resto Druid.

Statix, you make me laugh so... I don't know how to play my class. Ha -- I've been playing Feral Druids since pre-BC when they had no scalability what-so-ever and was still killing Mages like you. Nothing has changed between then and now except I've finally got a little bit of scalable damage -- Though the only thing that seems to matter to you is you cannot win against a Feral Druid. But, like I said, it hasn't changed between pre-BC and the only thing that will likely make it change in WoTLK is that Deep Freeze is now instant cast and Fingers of Frost will treat frost spells on me as if I'm frozen even though I'm not. Be happy, but don't force such negativity based on the current state of BC onto me -- We're talking about WoTLK in this thread silly.

[Bullshifter]

allll i hear is 'QQQQQQQQQQ int QQQQQQQQQQQ'. i agree wityh the 1st post though, they did complain about that, and now they get it back, and QQ their asses off.. also agree with the last post, they are a verery easy class to play. dont say i havent played one, i have. my cousins. S2 resto drood, tried arenas for fun, im not experienc3ed with droods, won 9 lost 1. they were too good/OP,imo. i agree with all other posts so far

I would agree that to be good as a resto druid in the current game you don't have to be a "great" player.

However, feral (which is what this thread is about) is a different story- it requires a lot of management of being in the proper form at the right time since only a third of your abilities are available at any given time, and that takes some practice.

And this?

And what if you go oom? You just change to Cat Form or Bear Form and you can still do a lot of damage with endless energy or endless rage. Please, if you whine about going oom, you just can't play your class.

You do realize that it takes mana to shapeshift right? Just change to Cat Form or Bear Form? 35% of base mana (untalented). That's a pretty sizable chunk of mana- It's not as easy to manage that stuff as you seem to think.

[Nydas]

God i knew this gear sharing crap was gonna bite ferals in the ass. Lets see how they "fix" druid tanking in rogue gear.

Anyone else notice that Ferals dont have a glove equip bonus?

[Seraphk]

God i knew this gear sharing crap was gonna bite ferals in the ass. Lets see how they "fix" druid tanking in rogue gear.

Anyone else notice that Ferals dont have a glove equip bonus?

I shall wait to see, but the fact that they just decided to keep Rogue itemization in our PvP and, likely, our Tier gear has me quite disappointed.

As for the glove equip bonus, I compliment you for having a good attention to detail. However, they changed Maim to provided a 3 second interrupt all the time acting as a "Kick" only it's a finisher. Very inefficient, but hey -- It gets the job done right? Yeah... Yay for using combo points to Kick!! And here Rogues are complaining that Kick doesn't add combo points and Gouge no longer adds combo points -- We spend combo points to do it. Woot woot.

But, that's the reason there is no glove equip bonus. What do I bet it will be? Probably something completely useless like .1 cast time reduction on my Cyclone. Oh wait, that's what they gave Resto Druids. We can't have that, otherwise we'd be OP like them! /sarcasm off

[jaddboy]

Maybe they will make you acctualy think twice if you really want shift out of that nova or rather wait for the ele.
To actually NOT be unkitable anymore so even druids need some skill to have success.

Awesome!

Ahh.. I remember when I was 12 and thought I knew everything.

We've never had, as ferals, unlimited mana. But not shifting out of a nova is about as dumb as your comment. Please leave you f'ing retard.

[jaddboy]

Druids are overpowered. I mean, I've never seen any Druid go oom. As a Mage, I can get the Druid to 5%, sure. But if he gets one heal, just one, he's back to 80%. No chance in hell I can kill him now. He'll just keep healing and I'll keep losing mana. In the end the Druid will have 50% of his mana left and I'll be oom. Giving the Druid the chance to slowly kill me.

And what if you go oom? You just change to Cat Form or Bear Form and you can still do a lot of damage with endless energy or endless rage. Please, if you whine about going oom, you just can't play your class.

Who let all the idiots in the druid forums? We are talking about feral, not resto. If you don't understand the difference then maybe you should go back to playing checkers with your mom.

[Discord]

make the ability to wear mail a talent deep in the feral tree

[Shaggie]

Posted this yesterday and it sounds like more people are agreeing with me:

What if we had a deep Feral talent to use Mail Armor? The effect of the talent would have to change the mechanics of Dire Bear form, obviously, as we would have a ridiculous amount of armor otherwise. But we could then use Hunter gear instead of Rogue gear to get the extra armor and still get Rogue type stats (agi, sta, hit, crit, ap) PLUS we would also get INT which is something Rogue gear is missing and I for one am not looking forward to swapping out gear and losing my mana pool anyway. Also, this could help out our cat form by increasing our armor and making them a bit less squishy (Dire Cat Form Lite).

Here are a couple of pieces of lvl 78 gear to compare the stats:

Mail-

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...reitem_062.jpg

Leather-

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...reitem_063.jpg

As you can see, not too great a difference.

At a minimum, this would give a Feral more options on what armor to use to max out DPS if they're going cat, and would make the choice for what gear to use to tank a no brainer.

I'll also add that the Talent could be "Dire Bear Form" and could replace Mangle in our talent tree, making Dire Bear Form the pre-req for either Mangle as a talent where Improved Mangle is now, or just to be able to train Mangle from a trainer. This would remove Resto Druids and Balance Druids from having Dire Bear Form (I think everyone would love to see a squishier version of the Resto Druid) giving us our top form, like they have Tree Form and Moonkin.

[Tigercat]

Keep off my enhance gear.

[kapowaz]

Why would a bear tank want int? Nice idea otherwise, but I think it'd cause more itemisation problems, not less.

[Seraphk]

Why would a bear tank want int? Nice idea otherwise, but I think it'd cause more itemisation problems, not less.

Oh, this is more in reference to PvP. A Bear doesn't want Intellect. It has no use what-so-ever.

In fact, I don't even want intellect to be honest. I want a have much cheaper shifting costs is what I truly want. Like I said in another post, superior health = more health but still taking more damage -- Mana is the same, I have additional mana but I still have high shifting costs.

By the way, I've been thinking that Mail armor is completely outrageous realistically. But then I thought about it a bit more:

"Feral Druid". Feral implies combat Druid. Deciding to put on heavier mail to protect yourself is completely logical. However, with the values, they'd have to further tone down the armor % on Bear Form. This would actually nerf Resto Druids a bit. The only people unhappy about this would be Hunters/Shamans competing with Feral Druids for gear.

However, the Hunter/Shaman mail itemization is just so perfect for Ferals it's not even funny. Shamans are granted Dual Wield through talents. Granting Druids Mail Armor through talents wouldn't be that big of a deal. Though, I really do not see Blizzard considering it TBH.

I'm just going to wait and see how bloated they can make our Feral tree via talents and then evaluate if the talents that bloat it are even worth it. Like I said, I plan on PvPing, so a Cat build with PvP talents. I am not that worried about them granting Druids the talents to be viable tanks as it's quite easy to do. I'm just worried about how bloated the tree is going to become and how viable we will remain in terms of being able to tank what we want and Cat DPS at the same time for those of you that are mostly interested n PvE.

[cryogenic]

Haven't considered how the cloth and leather pvp dps sets are all copies with 4 piece set bonus the only difference.
And perhaps these sets are simply there to give a new lvl 80 set of resilience gear quick and easy?
Regardless, PvE doesn't need any int, raid regen will support it.
PvP needs a mechanic to restore mana to it more then it needs simply a larger pool of mana to draw from.
I suggest mana regen in either straight returns from attacks applied to leader of the pack aura or huge mana regen procs.

Apparently currently you lose no energy powershifting the number doesnt revert to 0 and you get furor 40 energy added which quite frankly is awesome if true and intended.

[Marvdatboi]

make the ability to wear mail a talent deep in the feral tree

Yes a Rogue in mail with warrior/Hunter abilities with Heals. Brilliant!