Dispersion *sigh*

[Yzaron]

Dispel mana cost is fine, it's just because Spriest's don't talent to reduce it. But I agree we're poor in PvP atm: rogues, warriors, pala's, DKs...they all rape the shit out of us. The other day as I was questing, a warrior dropped on me, one hit, Sudden Death proc, BAM 12.4k hit vs. 400 res. At the time I had 12.8 health.

Explain how this is survivable?

That shitty holy hym thing we have should be instant imo, although it's just another emergency button we spam whilst in the middle of a stun combination. Even when we get out every melee class has 2-3 ways of ignoring, negating or cancelling our cc (fear......and.....fear....).

I actually found it to be very usefull in PvP, not against enemies bursting the crap outta you (cuz youve got other things to do at the time... like heal?) but when your playing against a healer/dps combo and your able to get the dpser down a bit but you know hes not gonna die with the healer running back in after having a drink or sumin. So i just call our repentance/HoJ from my ret partner. Right as it hits i starting casting hymn- chances are the healer trinkets aap (considering the fact their partner is low) and if its a pala trinket>bubble... means that once they trinket one thing they get Divine hymn on them, and in the case of pala. they do bubble + holy light.. at whch point i do mass dispell+fear and lol. (ofc this only works against some healers.. some are too smart to even allow you so close)

Its really not a skill that helps with surviving, more of a gib helper

[Lucky_]

So we're the nuker who do less damage than the other classes, with least defense... that's nice.

So you're not calling a Retri Paladin, Death Knight or Rogue for "hard nuker" ? What are they then?

Last time I checked they got more burst than we do.

Hard melee nukers. And last I checked, resilience and having to spec PvP pretty much butchered rogue damage - after HARP was out, none of the rogue specs do nearly as much damage as mage even before buffs with shatters or god forbid, SP who made skilled and geared frost mages look like warlocks when it came to bursting.

Overall damage, sure, possible if there is a warlock/priest around to bash on 24/7. Burst damage? No way in hell. For rogues, real, meaningful burst died with HARP. They became unkitable disruption and lockdown machine instead.


Three main points:

1. Resilience. We have not a faintest clue how it will affect classes at the moment. We do know however that cloth will always be squishy without it, melee will always be more powerful without it. Surprisingly, or not so much, all the classes you mention are in fact melee. You're still pretty close to the top ranged nuke wise, and your damage sure as hell is much less resilience-gimpable then frost mages' or boomkin's. Let's not even start about the walking dead men that are warlocks right now.

2. Range. You nuke at RANGE. People can't snare you, and expect to take close to zero damage 10 yards away from you - they actually have to go all 36 or LoS to avoid damage. All the above mentioned classes on the other hand fall into this category. As a result, your nuke should be lesser, as it is much easier to use (when proper survivability is attained), and much harder to avoid. Of course, that wasn't how it was in S3 and S4, but that was compensated by your extreme squishiness back then. You were the true glass cannon. Frost mages to whom clueless people referred to as such were quite possibly the hardest class to kill in the game next to only rogues when proper skill and resilience was attained.

3. Spec. Almost everyone you face nowadays is in a max damage (dps) or max survivability (tank) PvE spec. Very few are in actual PvP specs, as for melee, those specs gimp damage badly to give protection vs kiting, superior snares, MS, etc. You could play a combat rogue in PvP before and do hilarious damage even before res nerf. Of course, 9/10 people in PvP spec would just snare you and kill you while you couldn't even touch them.

TLR - let's talk cloth survivability and nuke vs melee survivability and nuke when proper resilience is in game and cloth is maxed on it as usual and when PvP arenas are back in the game for real, so people actually spec for them. Right now, melee has a free ride due to complete and utter lack of resilience and PvE specs, and balancing based on zero or near zero resilience PvP is would be politely speaking very, very clueless.