3.1 Ret PvP Spec

[Sartecho]

I do tend to run out of mana when I'm not being focused by the other team in arena. This is worst when I'm dealing with a rogue and periodically dropping consecration to try to pop him out of stealth.

Hopefully the changes in 3.1 will remove this problem and our mana will be much more stable regardless of who is being targeted. I suspect that we'll be fine so long as we aren't using consecration much or healing (which you shouldn't be doing much of anyway). I rarely need Divine Plea, but it always seems to get me through any rough spots.

BG's are a bit of a different story. I think you're always going to run out of mana there, but one of two things will happen fairly quickly. You'll either defend/take the node you're fighting at and have time to drink or you'll be dead and rez with a full mana bar anyway.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

RV will be fixed by 3.1 to not break Repentance. RV will proc from 3 of your attacks. RV procs stack. RV prevents stealth and invis. RV can proc on multiple targets at once. my RV stacks avg(w/o wings) 900 per tick. currently, my RV does more dmg than either my CS or my DS or my Consecrate given the same length of time.

think about it. 900/tick in 8 secs is 3600 dmg. thats a whole other attack in your rotation. RV alone is not enough to kill someone, but neither is any single DoT. come 3.1 when burst is toned down, ima take all the extra dmg talents i can get.

i call shenanigans on your "RV is fail is a PVP build". L2UseIt

You WONT get 900 dmg ticks on arena, belive me, you wont crit as much and as often to proc RV so much. Resilience wont let you do that, you get CCed, kited, need to run after your target, heal, cleanse, hide, so in resume RV is not efficient in arena.

RV should not break repentance since beginning of WotLK, but still is, and i didnt see any blue post saying that will be fixed. But even if is fixed RV is still not usefull for arena, maybe 1 point if you think is good against rogues/feral druid.

[Maneken]

RV will be fixed by 3.1 to not break Repentance. RV will proc from 3 of your attacks. RV procs stack. RV prevents stealth and invis. RV can proc on multiple targets at once. my RV stacks avg(w/o wings) 900 per tick. currently, my RV does more dmg than either my CS or my DS or my Consecrate given the same length of time.

think about it. 900/tick in 8 secs is 3600 dmg. thats a whole other attack in your rotation. RV alone is not enough to kill someone, but neither is any single DoT. come 3.1 when burst is toned down, ima take all the extra dmg talents i can get.

i call shenanigans on your "RV is fail is a PVP build". L2UseIt

Sry m8 ill dissapoint you after good portion of time spend in PTR bgs and testing on target dummy RV is now very low in dmg in PVE. In PVP it dont wroth to have it fully maybe 1 point will be good against restealthing but it dont worth full 3 points. Also m8 if you meant on stacking on same target it doesnt stack.

[iktankniet]

RV can get to 900 on a dummy w/o wings. but you need 2 or 3 crits for it. i got it ocasionally over 1k per tick. but it was about trinket procs.

[ArchAngelz13]

Personally i would run
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...2&version=9767

as for the SoM vs SoC there are uses for both seals i mostly only use SoM against teams with a healer, it helps put more pressure on them overall then command ive found
as for SoC its still nice against double dps i always find my self tight on GCDs and hp against them so judging light with SoC helps survive a little longer imo
as for RV personally its not that much of a big deal dps wise in arena but its always nice against rogues which is why id put 1 point into it

i run with a resto shaman for my 2s and personally i find the new changes pretty okie it gives us ret paladins more utility in arena now and more ways to kinda save our partner with the better shields and new talent
im interested to see how the new "sustained" damage works better rather then our burst cuz honestly that burst was all we had against holy paladins and resto druids... and honestly i cant imagine killing them without...

[tommy0guns]

Sry m8 ill dissapoint you after good portion of time spend in PTR bgs and testing on target dummy RV is now very low in dmg in PVE. In PVP it dont wroth to have it fully maybe 1 point will be good against restealthing but it dont worth full 3 points. Also m8 if you meant on stacking on same target it doesnt stack.

RV doesn't officially 'stack', it's a rolling effect. the point is: as of pre-3.1, you can have more than one proc on the same target at one time.

[Deathleech]

Wow, some people are so confused or mis-guided it's not even funny.

Seal of Command - NO, you do NOT need this ability nor should you ever use it in arena. Not even you are on a double DPS team. Stick with Blood/Martyr. It's much more sustained/overall damage. There is a reason SoC is called "Seal of Casino". It's a chance game, some times it goes off when you need it to but most of the time it doesn't. There is a reason all the best arena ret pallies use Blood/Martyr it and don't even bother specing into SoC.

With SoB/M you are looking at 1-3k seal crits EVERY physical atk vs. a 7 ppm proc chance with SoC (once per rotation roughly) that does about the same dmg.. do the math. Yes SoC judgments will be higher and have a 100% crit chance on stunned targets but even this isn't enough to overcome the much higher sustained dmg with Martyr. The recoil on B/M is much less than it was before, and with Divine Guardian and Sacred Shield fixed you should easily be absorbing 1200+ dmg. This will help mitigate lots of incoming dmg and off set the recoil.

Blessing of King - again, NEVER use kings on yourself over might. Kings will give you roghly 1% more crit, 350 more AP, and around 1.5k more hp. While this is definitely nice, you are a burst class and 300 more ap from imp Might > 1% crit and 1.5k hp any day of the week.

Righteous Vengeance - while this may tick for 3600 dmg over 8 seconds in a PVE setting, it definetly won't in PVP. As others have pointed out resilience means less crits in PVP. On top of that the dmg was severely nerfed and it DOES in fact still break repentence. If you still feel you need it for 1 out of 10 class, rogues, then go for it. Put 1 point in. For everyone else they can try to Consecrate/DS to break vanishes.


As for myself this is the spec I will likeyl go for PVP:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=9767#

Divinity is chosen over Toughness because you have Imp HoF and even when it's not up 24% only takes off maybe a 1-3 on most movement slow durations. The armor benefit of the talent is totally ignored by roughly half the class/specs in the game. Divinity on the other hand increases your insta FoL heals, DS heals, and if you are with a healing partner all their heals on you.

[Deathleech]

First off you don't give any info to back your arguments up, you just call me an idiot like some retarded 8 year old. Why don't you try to provide some constructive criticism or counter points rather than making yourself look like an idiotic ass?

Secondly the lower dmg on Seal of Blood/Martyr doesn't matter. The seal portion getting it's dmg doubled more than makes up for judgment nerf. We do 30% less judgment dmg but do 50% more seal dmg. One judgment every 7 or 8 seconds versus a seal every white melee attack, CS, and DS. You are looking at about 2-3k dmg off judgments but in the same time frame 1-2k more on at least 3-4 seal attacks. Do the math.

Of course this is all probably too hard for you to comprehend. I mean hell, don't listen to me. I managed to get 300 more rating in arena then you just screwing around as PVE ret, with a PVE spec'd holy partner. Not that that is any accomplishment compared to what some of the best PVP ret players get. The same ones who also don't spec into Command :

[Piscesthepally]

First off you don't give any info to back your arguments up, you just call me an idiot like some retarded 8 year old. Why don't you try to provide some constructive criticism or counter points rather than making yourself look like an idiotic ass?

Secondly the lower dmg on Seal of Blood/Martyr doesn't matter. The seal portion getting it's dmg doubled more than makes up for judgment nerf. We do 30% less judgment dmg but do 50% more seal dmg. One judgment every 7 or 8 seconds versus a seal every white melee attack, CS, and DS. You are looking at about 2-3k dmg off judgments but in the same time frame 1-2k more on at least 3-4 seal attacks. Do the math.

Of course this is all probably too hard for you to comprehend. I mean hell, don't listen to me. I managed to get 300 more rating in arena then you just screwing around as PVE ret, with a PVE spec'd holy partner. Not that that is any accomplishment compared to what some of the best PVP ret players get. The same ones who also don't spec into Command :

Relax man, he is just trolling you. I am actually an accomplished PvP'er and agree with you 100 percent. Also, interesting that you took imp might over E4E, been thinking of doing that myself. Still debating about dropping the 3 points in RD to put into divinity.

[Verteidiger]

First off you don't give any info to back your arguments up, you just call me an idiot like some retarded 8 year old. Why don't you try to provide some constructive criticism or counter points rather than making yourself look like an idiotic ass?

Secondly the lower dmg on Seal of Blood/Martyr doesn't matter. The seal portion getting it's dmg doubled more than makes up for judgment nerf. We do 30% less judgment dmg but do 50% more seal dmg. One judgment every 7 or 8 seconds versus a seal every white melee attack, CS, and DS. You are looking at about 2-3k dmg off judgments but in the same time frame 1-2k more on at least 3-4 seal attacks. Do the math.

Of course this is all probably too hard for you to comprehend. I mean hell, don't listen to me. I managed to get 300 more rating in arena then you just screwing around as PVE ret, with a PVE spec'd holy partner. Not that that is any accomplishment compared to what some of the best PVP ret players get. The same ones who also don't spec into Command :

Becouse you are stupid and only, go check my Achivments for arena.

[mikklas]

My specs, info/criticism appreciated
Btw.. I go with Divinity over imp RF nomatter what build I use, just my playstyle. Also my playstyle to use SoB/SoM over SoC. Anyway, here is my spec with a healer:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...2&version=9767

Here my spec is with a full-nuke team (not many viable combs here, but take a DK as an example):

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...2&version=9767

Difference is the increase crit on the target.. Here it buffs both dps, and you don't need much sustained dmg. Depending on how the numbers turns out on the DOT, then I could switch them into Vengeance, but I doubt it.

[Astray]

I take RV with 1 point in it. Not because it does amazing DPS, its because its annoying.

PvP is about annoying people.

[mikklas]

Yeah, I aggree... I found it bad in some combos like a lock/rogue though (ye, I pwned with a destro lock! ^^). But, if it provides more dmg than 2 points in Vengeance, then I would pick it. Especially because I need the dmg right away and vengeance procs only affects my next attacks.

[jneboon]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=9767#

clearly the best pvp spec so far...only get judgement glyph over hoj one

[egowhip]

I have always Spcced Eye foran Eye instead of IMP might.

Can someone tell me why I should not spec E4E fro PVP?

I also appreciate some of you guys for convincing me to stop using SoC. SoM is doing way more damage and the recoil isn't that bad any more. SoC was really just a bad habbit!


Not trying to be a smart-ass, I just don't want to drop 45 gold for the respec without knowing why i should ditch E4E.

[Astray]

Blood instead of command sounds logical, but somehow~ isnt it paradox to spend points into mitigation-talents insteat of pure DPS Talents and then take a seal that hurts yourself for some more damage again?

[Trinnium]

why is everyone neglecting seal of command for a pvp spec...i dont get it.

[Mysmere]

if you cant manage to make a focus macro for repent, so it isn't broken by rv, then you are fail. fail pallies are fail!

[Deathleech]

Blood instead of command sounds logical, but somehow~ isnt it paradox to spend points into mitigation-talents insteat of pure DPS Talents and then take a seal that hurts yourself for some more damage again?

Well it's a bit different. You can only have one seal up so it makes sense to use the seal that does the most damage and not waste a talent point on one you will never use. With the dmg mitigation talents you will actually use them. There is nothing else to spend points on to boost your dmg really, at least nothing worth it in PVP so the dmg mitigation talents are far better than the small DPS increase ones.

why is everyone neglecting seal of command for a pvp spec...i dont get it.

Read my previous post. Seal of Command has a 7ppm which means 7 procs per minute. That comes out to be roughly one proc per 8.5 seconds. One Seal of Command proc per 8.5 seconds, or a Seal of Blood/Martyr proc on every physical attack? You are looking at roughly 4-5 SoB/M procs in the same 8.5 seconds that one SoC proc will happen with both seals doing roughly the same dmg. Not only that, SoC is a CHANCE, meaning it might not even happen and the damage is unreliable unlike SoB/M.

Sure Command can now judge slightly harder with the judgment nerf to SoB/M, but it's still not worth using. Three or four extra SoB/M procs is a minimum of 3-4k dmg if nothing crits, if it does you are looking at 6-10k dmg. 6-10k extra dmg in 8 seconds is MUCH better than doing an extra 2k on a SoC judgment. Yes the recoil on SoB/M kinda sucks, but it's much less than it was before and not a huge deal. You are looking at maybe 2-2.5kk dmg taken to yourself every 8 seconds. This is easily off set by having imp Sacred Shield on yourself.

Relax man, he is just trolling you. I am actually an accomplished PvP'er and agree with you 100 percent. Also, interesting that you took imp might over E4E, been thinking of doing that myself. Still debating about dropping the 3 points in RD to put into divinity.

The thing is, I don't think he is. He is one of those AWFUL PVPers that truly thinks Command is better than Blood or Martyr. Even if he is mostly doing PVE content their is no need to spec into Command. It's pretty much worthless for both PVE and PVP. The only people who spec into it for PVP are the ones that haven't done any sort of high end arena and are still under the assumption it's the best seal to use.

Becouse you are stupid and only, go check my Achivments for arena.

Ahh so you did arena just to get some achievements points eh? Yet you only could be bothered with getting the easy ones everyone gets? You couldn't, you know, do good and actually get more of em? Makes perfect sense for a horribad player such as yourself. Why don't you go get a haircut and stop trolling the forums you emo tool.

[Deceptor]

Well it's a bit different. You can only have one seal up so it makes sense to use the seal that does the most damage and not waste a talent point on one you will never use. With the dmg mitigation talents you will actually use them. There is nothing else to spend points on to boost your dmg really, at least nothing worth it in PVP so the dmg mitigation talents are far better than the small DPS increase ones.

Read my previous post. Seal of Command has a 7ppm which means 7 procs per minute. That comes out to be roughly one proc per 8.5 seconds. One Seal of Command proc per 8.5 seconds, or a Seal of Blood/Martyr proc on every physical attack? You are looking at roughly 4-5 SoB/M procs in the same 8.5 seconds that one SoC proc will happen with both seals doing roughly the same dmg. Not only that, SoC is a CHANCE, meaning it might not even happen and the damage is unreliable unlike SoB/M.

Im not going to argue with you here but simply ask a question about the seal of command glyph "increase the chance of dealing soc dmg 20%" How much of a difference would that make when comparing?