Feral Druids - the Bear guide

[Meledelion]

first off why do u have survival insticts that ones ez imo, for fights where it's needed s3d, mimiron,...
second yes the numbers of your heals are nice but you can't controll it and this is shown by your numbers 60% overheal(2times and i've given u a very fair margin here), 30% overheal (2times) and one acceptable overheal 18%. imo if more then 1/3rd of your healing is overheal u'r doing something wrong. To continue due to the fact that all healers overheal for about 22% means that your healing isn't needed anyways + i've never ever seen any healer go oom in any of our progress raids another indication that although u'r helping healers it's not needed.
i may be walking on an edge here but basicly what you do is make other ppl's job easier whilst making your job harder, i don't have problems with this on it's own but sacrificing yourself when it's not needed simply feels against my nature.

(what do u think of the rest of the talents i posted btw, discussing is good and i'm trying to show where i'm coming from. i understand your point but let's now go for a concessus so ppl know what to look for and know that imp lotp isn't mandatory ;p)

[PewZ007]

What do you think is better between : the naxx10 neck and the badge neck.
The naxx10 neck has armor and the badge one has +hit. I'm really torn between the 2. I know the armor from the neck won't multiply in bear form but it's still nice to have. I have low hit rating so I was thinking the one with hit for that reason.

[Selverein]

Meledelion, anyone with a few brain cells will know that iLotP is not mandatory so I don't think you have to worry about that. It's just like KoJ and other similar talents. I don't think we need to discuss each talent in depths as it's up to everyone to juggle with the leftover points and put them where they feel is best for them.

I have never needed the threat increase from KoJ thus far so I did not spec into it. I like iLotP on the other hand because even though part of it will be overheal (roughly 50%) it does help out your healers and will let your DPS live a bit longer.

It's not really a matter of picking up your healers' slack, it's just helpful to everyone. Cause if you see it as sacrificing yourself for compensation, then you might as well not buff Fort, cause after all your healers are perfect and won't need the extra buffer, right? Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'm just trying to get a point across. iLotP is definitely not needed and will be wasted in some situations, but overall I feel it's helpful enough to be worth speccing into.

[Meledelion]

selver as i stated earlier i like discussions, so don't go all troll on me.
and clearly u got less then the needed braincells u state since there are no spare talentpoints and that u have to choose between some things for situations where some are better then others the discussion isn't about wether or not it's a talent like potp it's what outwheighs what

to conclude selver i was making these remarks to intelligent ppl plz don't troll any further, u haven't made a single remark earlier on i was looking for remarks from leafr etc who come with good arguments, math and statistics that is a discussion.

[Khraeme]

id u dont like Imp LoTP, just dont spec into it, get something else thats useless, like intensity or something, for instarage....ppl do what they want based on how they play, i choose to have Imp leader, prob wont drop it, the little bit of extra heals is always nice to have, if u think otherwise, go reroll something else

[Selverein]

Really, what part of my post was trolling.

The spare points are from KoJ as it's nowhere near being a necessity, just like iLotP. I just chose iLotP over KoJ, personal preference as stated many times.

If you think KoJ is mandatory, I can't do anything to convince you.

I also specced out of Imp Mangle to smooth the FFF rotation. So far it's giving me higher threat than before the FFF nerf. Maybe I could try with a few points in Imp Mangle but so far it really doesn't feel like a necessity.

I wasn't trolling when I said the brain cells thing. I just meant that I don't think you have to worry about other people thinking iLotP is mandatory cause most people should be able to think for themselves. Otherwise it's just too bad for them anyway and they're probably a lost cause.

[arel00]

- the dodge DR doesn't hit harder after 50-52% dodge. It hits harder with each % of avoidance you gain, but there's no value where it becomes suddenly awful.
- the amount of agi needed so that def > agi is much higher than 1200 (aroud 2800 in fact). That's because agi benefits from BoK, SotF and IMotW. The treshold is close to 60% in fact, like Antdog said (but that's not because of a change in 3.1).

You can use this page to check :
http://druid.wikispaces.com/Avoidanc...ishing_Returns

I will look it up.

On the spec thing: as I said, I'm not discussing the specs. At all. I stated some of the most common ones, and that is all.

[Leafre]

It's totally ok, if you/we don't discuss specs and theories on the guide, but also nice to see some chit-chat about them

[arel00]

It's totally ok, if you/we don't discuss specs and theories on the guide, but also nice to see some chit-chat about them

That's obvious But then, why don't we make an official feral specs thread? We could use another sticky with comparisons and evaluation about both cat and bear talent builds.

[Leafre]

A good idea, but then we need some logs and tests to prove the theories, and those tests take time. I'm gonna try differenc specs during 4 raid lockouts (starting today), will save the combatlog and do some math.

[Paskgotsheal]

That's obvious But then, why don't we make an official feral specs thread? We could use another sticky with comparisons and evaluation about both cat and bear talent builds.

True dat I got a baller build i used back pre 3.1 for feral tanking and DPSing. Worked wonders I got all the tank talents and only lost maybe 200 or so dps.

[Khraeme]

im using the macros that was posted a few pages back, am im wondering if when i have 5 lacerate buffs applied, should i keep using lacerate or switch to swipe....i use manlge on CD, adn dem shout, what would be the best bet for theat generation??

i feel like swipe woudl get more aggro but, would spamming lacerate be better?

[Meledelion]

u rlly should read better khraeme ppl have already stated that u shout when u need to refresh and that fff>swipe>lacerate

[Khraeme]

i have read, and i use everything on CD, but when things are not on CD, like mangle, and 5 lacerate ticks up, demo shout up...but is swiping on single target still better then lacerate...since the 30% dmg to swipe now

[Retovia]

Dont use Lacerate if you allrdy have 5 stacks ticking.

Ideally is to use mangle every time its off CD, use maul as often as available (those macros are awesome btw). Have 5 stacks of lacerate ticking, and in between use swipe and FFF, with FFF being preferred over swipe.

[Khraeme]

ok thank you very much....yes those macros are awesome, thanks to who ever posted them

[getefix]

Dont use Lacerate if you allrdy have 5 stacks ticking.

Ideally is to use mangle every time its off CD, use maul as often as available (those macros are awesome btw). Have 5 stacks of lacerate ticking, and in between use swipe and FFF, with FFF being preferred over swipe.

FFF doesn't proc SD so it shouldn't be part of your rotation. It's a pulling instrument just like a Paladin's Avenger's Shield.

[arel00]

FFF doesn't proc SD so it shouldn't be part of your rotation. It's a pulling instrument just like a Paladin's Avenger's Shield.

Welcome to 3.1. Threat wise, FFF can't even be compared to Swipe or Lacerate, and it's much closer to Mangle. As such a strong threat tool (globally the 3rd, behind Maul and Mangle), it is advisable to use it every cooldown, SD procs or not.

[Leafre]

FFF doesn't proc SD so it shouldn't be part of your rotation. It's a pulling instrument just like a Paladin's Avenger's Shield.

FFF is in my rotation since it does damage, lolzi.

[Neba]

He does have a point though in my opinion with his reason to drop Faerie Fire from his rotation. In most fights I'm way up top in threat and any more SD uptime would be welcome. On the other hand, parries. Oh decisions, decisions... :P