New Mac Mini M2 pro and WOW

[Ravensea]

Hi

Does anybody know or can make educated guess if the new Mac Mini M2 pro would play Dragonflight at 4k around 60fps?

It has 16 core Graphics , 10 core cpu.

https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-ma...ore-gpu-512gb#

It doesnt have to be in Ultra settings, Good is good enough.

Thanks

UPDATE 31/01/2023 :

Just an update for anybody interested. I bought a Mac Mini M2 Pro 12 core CPU, 19 core GPU with 16 GB RAM.

It is playing WoW at 4k at 80fps at default settings in most taxing situations. I am sure I could lower some settings to get higher fps but right now I am amazed and delighted at it’s performance.

WoW looks and plays beautiful at 4k on this mac mini. Thanks for all the replies.

[Thes]

Hi

Does anybody know or can make educated guess if the new Mac Mini M2 pro would play Dragonflight at 4k around 60fps?

It has 16 core Graphics , 10 core cpu.

https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-ma...ore-gpu-512gb#

It doesnt have to be in Ultra settings, Good is good enough.

Thanks

It probably wont.

LTT made a video about the M1 Ultra and they also had a the pro version to compare to: https://youtu.be/8YjMIjLLIwA?t=204

[nightfury369]

It should but not as good it does on a PC running a 3070 or 6800xt card.
I can give you a comparison from my MBPro 14 which has 8CPU / 14GPU

I run 4k but scaled from 75% (wow for mac probably also using FSR to scale)
There isn't too much quality loss using FSR from say 3k looks almost the same as 4k native in wow.

I also use 2x/2x AA, custom settings derived from 7 graphics, most on good/high, view distance 6, environment 5.

I get about 60FPS in a very loaded area such as Valdrakken center (AH etc)
In world or dungeon or raid/bg I get up to 90FPS, depending on how crowded it is.

Is it playable? Feck yeah especially that I use this mac for work so wow gaming is a bonus.
But if you want a dedicated gaming box for 1500e you can get a better PC.

[rogoth]

you ain't running ANY video/game based application in 4k on a mac based system that isn't the full fat video editing beast, the best you could hope for is 1440p, don't forget that while the apple silicone is good for the job it does, it is worse than onboard graphics from Intel/AMD in terms of gaming performance, it's not made for gaming it's made for photo/video editing and tasks like that, while i can understand that blizz made the mac client to give those with a mac some way of playing WoW, realistically there shouldn't be a mac client at all for anything other than those with the basic hardware to run games, unless you need a mac for your job and are spending that kind of money on this (rather pathetic system imho for the cost), you would be better off buying a proper PC that can do both gaming and basic video/photo editing etc.

[Syri79]

you ain't running ANY video/game based application in 4k on a mac based system that isn't the full fat video editing beast, the best you could hope for is 1440p, don't forget that while the apple silicone is good for the job it does, it is worse than onboard graphics from Intel/AMD in terms of gaming performance, it's not made for gaming it's made for photo/video editing and tasks like that, while i can understand that blizz made the mac client to give those with a mac some way of playing WoW, realistically there shouldn't be a mac client at all for anything other than those with the basic hardware to run games, unless you need a mac for your job and are spending that kind of money on this (rather pathetic system imho for the cost), you would be better off buying a proper PC that can do both gaming and basic video/photo editing etc.

The apple silicon is actually better than intel or AMD's onboard solutions, apart from maybe some of the higher end AMD models. I have the basic M1 macbook air and at native resolution (1440p roughly) it can handle WoW on medium with a playable framerate (about 40fps, not great but playable). The base M1 GPU is roughly equivalent to a 1050ti laptop gpu, not great but better than most onboard solutions.
As for the point about what you get for the money though, spot on. Unless you really need the mac for some other purpose as well, you will get much better gaming performance for the money from a windows PC. That's why I have 2 PCs, my gaming machine, and my ultra-portable macbook that will do a little gaming when out.

[ldev]

but thermodynamics still exist. Its a tiny box with inferior cooling design aand maybe a 65W power draw.

What's so bad about mac mini cooling? Are they hot to the touch, are they throttling?

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you ain't running ANY video application in 4k on a mac based system

it's made for video editing and tasks like tha

Which is it, the suspense is killing me :S

[rogoth]

What's so bad about mac mini cooling? Are they hot to the touch, are they throttling?

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Which is it, the suspense is killing me :S

if you're going to quote me at least fully quote it, and not cut things out to remove context, i stated quite clearly that a mac mini/macbook is not for gaming with, it's designed for video/photo editing and that's it, they do not have the processing power necessary for gaming, that's not what they are built for, if you can't grasp that concept then that's a you issue, but for future reference don't try and be a smartass unless you have all your bases covered because it makes you look like a cunt when you're exposed like this.

[ldev]

if you're going to quote me at least fully quote it, and not cut things out to remove context, i stated quite clearly that a mac mini/macbook is not for gaming with, it's designed for video/photo editing and that's it, they do not have the processing power necessary for gaming, that's not what they are built for, if you can't grasp that concept then that's a you issue, but for future reference don't try and be a smartass unless you have all your bases covered because it makes you look like a cunt when you're exposed like this.

"you ain't running ANY video/game based application in 4k on a mac based system that isn't the full fat video editing beast, the best you could hope for is 1440p," - how is this out of context? What do you mean when you say "you ain't running ANY video or game based application in 4k"? You don't mean that mac mini can't handle 4k? Even one stream? No? x265 - no? ProRes - no? HDR - forget about it? Best it can do is 1440p?

[rogoth]

"you ain't running ANY video/game based application in 4k on a mac based system that isn't the full fat video editing beast, the best you could hope for is 1440p," - how is this out of context? What do you mean when you say "you ain't running ANY video or game based application in 4k"? You don't mean that mac mini can't handle 4k? Even one stream? No?

since you seem incapable of the reading comprehension necessary to understand the point i was making, i have bolded and underlined the important part of my comment, and i have underlined the KEY WORDS to apply context, if you're incapable of understanding this moving forward then that's on you, i'll even make it easier for you by translating it into a form even some of the most stupid people can understand:

the hardware of a mac mini, macbook, macbook air is not in any way shape or form of rendering ANY VIDEO OR GAME in 4k, it doesn't matter what god you pray to it's not happening, they simply do not have the hardware capable or necessary to render that resolution at even a cinematic framerate nevermind a playable framerate, the only way you're doing ANYTHING in 4k on a mac based device is if it's a mac pro or mac pro max, and even then it's a stretch.

again if you can't grasp this concept, then it's a you issue, i can't really make this any simpler to understand for you, and no amount of misquoting is gonna change that.

i hope this answers your question and clarifies the point being made.

[BrokenRavens]

Not exactly answering your question, but I hope this helps;

[Ravensea]

It should but not as good it does on a PC running a 3070 or 6800xt card.
I can give you a comparison from my MBPro 14 which has 8CPU / 14GPU

I run 4k but scaled from 75% (wow for mac probably also using FSR to scale)
There isn't too much quality loss using FSR from say 3k looks almost the same as 4k native in wow.

I also use 2x/2x AA, custom settings derived from 7 graphics, most on good/high, view distance 6, environment 5.

I get about 60FPS in a very loaded area such as Valdrakken center (AH etc)
In world or dungeon or raid/bg I get up to 90FPS, depending on how crowded it is.

Is it playable? Feck yeah especially that I use this mac for work so wow gaming is a bonus.
But if you want a dedicated gaming box for 1500e you can get a better PC.

This is really helpful as are all the other replies. Thank you everyone for replying. I need a new mac mini for work but also want to get the best out of my M32U monitor with WoW.

[rogoth]

For the M1 chip they're okay. The SoC doesn't generate that much heat and has a decently designed boost profile. The previous Intel ones are an example where they're throwing +100W into these chassis' with insufficient overall thermal design. I've handled dozens of these devices professionally and I wouldn't trust an SoC over the base configuration for an M1.

When Apple lets their processors ride to 100C before they increase the fan RPM, it doesn't give much room for variable environmental conditions to genuinely affect performance. Apple has the design focuses of sleek and silent, at the detriment to performance.

This is the case for most of their products, where even their iPhones can run into this issue. Back in the iPhone 10 days when they swapped to the option of steel frames on phones, it genuinely would cause those phones to overheat. The frame of the phone is a heatsink for the SoC, and most grades of steel are ~!50x less thermally conductive than aluminum.

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Their architecture is primarily designed around productivity work, but seems to get sufficient rasterization performance. Just only so much they can do with X amount of transistors especially when they seem to worry about thermodynamics last.

yes, at lower resolutions, the OP was asking if he could game at 4k resolution on a mac mini, unless they Frankenstein an actual MITX pc inside a mac mini housing there's no way in this reality that a mac mini can render 4k in anything nevermind gaming, that was my point, and the person who was misquoting me to try stir the pot clearly doesn't understand this fact, the only way that a mac product using proprietary apple silicone can render a 4k anything is using the laughably overpriced mac pro (and others in the same class), and even then it's a stretch for gaming because they aren't, as you and i have stated, built for that purpose, they are a workstation designed for photo/video editing and animation workloads.

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This is really helpful as are all the other replies. Thank you everyone for replying. I need a new mac mini for work but also want to get the best out of my M32U monitor with WoW.

my main question for you is, why do you have a 4k monitor when the hardware you're using can't render 4k?, seems a bit of an overspend no?, also what kind of workloads are you doing that you can't invest in a decent PC setup that can do the same thing as a mac mini?, is there some specific mac based programs you use for work that you can't find an alternative that runs on windows?, because frankly speaking since you have a generic 4k gaming monitor, outside of needing a proprietary piece of apple software, surely it's better financially to use a much more powerful and better equipped pc to handle those tasks while also being capable of gaming as well?

[Ravensea]

yes, at lower resolutions, the OP was asking if he could game at 4k resolution on a mac mini, unless they Frankenstein an actual MITX pc inside a mac mini housing there's no way in this reality that a mac mini can render 4k in anything nevermind gaming, that was my point, and the person who was misquoting me to try stir the pot clearly doesn't understand this fact, the only way that a mac product using proprietary apple silicone can render a 4k anything is using the laughably overpriced mac pro (and others in the same class), and even then it's a stretch for gaming because they aren't, as you and i have stated, built for that purpose, they are a workstation designed for photo/video editing and animation workloads.

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my main question for you is, why do you have a 4k monitor when the hardware you're using can't render 4k?, seems a bit of an overspend no?, also what kind of workloads are you doing that you can't invest in a decent PC setup that can do the same thing as a mac mini?, is there some specific mac based programs you use for work that you can't find an alternative that runs on windows?, because frankly speaking since you have a generic 4k gaming monitor, outside of needing a proprietary piece of apple software, surely it's better financially to use a much more powerful and better equipped pc to handle those tasks while also being capable of gaming as well?

I like Apple, all my stuff is on it. I tried the other way and it sucks hard.

[rogoth]

I like Apple, all my stuff is on it. I tried the other way and it sucks hard.

fair enough, as i said though, if you're aim is to play games at 4k on anything made by apple you will need to shell out for a mac pro or similar, and even then it's likely you will have to turn your settings right down to achieve that resolution setting, and the only way you could play WoW or any games for that matter at 4k with a respectable framerate is with the kind of hardware you find in pcs that cost £2000+ ($2500 ish), and unfortunately that's just the fact of the matter right now because while the m1 and m2 chips are good for the job they do, apple is quite literally incapable of developing any kind of hardware that could offer even the same level of gaming performance that the likes of AMD or Nvidia provided like 4-5 years ago.

[ldev]

since you seem incapable of the reading comprehension necessary to understand the point i was making, i have bolded and underlined the important part of my comment, and i have underlined the KEY WORDS to apply context, if you're incapable of understanding this moving forward then that's on you, i'll even make it easier for you by translating it into a form even some of the most stupid people can understand:

the hardware of a mac mini, macbook, macbook air is not in any way shape or form of rendering ANY VIDEO OR GAME in 4k, it doesn't matter what god you pray to it's not happening, they simply do not have the hardware capable or necessary to render that resolution at even a cinematic framerate nevermind a playable framerate, the only way you're doing ANYTHING in 4k on a mac based device is if it's a mac pro or mac pro max, and even then it's a stretch.

again if you can't grasp this concept, then it's a you issue, i can't really make this any simpler to understand for you, and no amount of misquoting is gonna change that.

i hope this answers your question and clarifies the point being made.

fake news, macbook air can render multiple streams of prores 4k video np

[VoidDrake]

I got Macbook Pro M1Pro 8CPU C / 14GPU C and it has ran at 4k at around 60fps'ish, depends on the zone and shadow quality turned to low.

[rogoth]

fake news, macbook air can render multiple streams of prores 4k video np

no, it can't, because the macbook air doesn't have active cooling, so if you try to do something that requires full workloads for long periods of time, it will severely thermal throttle, again, if you're going to argue a point at least make sure you're correct and not try to be an asshat.

[Syri79]

no, it can't, because the macbook air doesn't have active cooling, so if you try to do something that requires full workloads for long periods of time, it will severely thermal throttle, again, if you're going to argue a point at least make sure you're correct and not try to be an asshat.

Wrong, it CAN do it. it might not do it in real time, but it CAN do it. If it throttles, it slows down. It doesn't stop or shut down. Rendering scenes can be done at any speed, so they are correct, it CAN render multiple 4k pro res video streams, eventually. When trying to make a point about accuracy of information, make sure you're being accurate...

[Wries]

Topic at hand: 4K is probably pushing it but hey the game supports FSR 1.0 and things. You will be able to play but you will have to fiddle settings. Reviews are due now during the coming week.

It is not a cost-effective way to play WoW and god forbid you want to play something else because the games optimized for Apple Silicon can still be hand-counted.


Slightly different topic: I don't know why the video arrives at the conclusion that the base M2 Macbook Air is something that would croak in certain areas of the game. But idk, most youtubers are a bit too content quantity focused rather than doing thorough helpful research because the algorithm needs some help.

But I'm off on a tangent there. For future reference, here are the settings in WoW for MBA M2 that makes it not croak:

* Vsync on or framerate limiter to 60. You will probably end up running Vsync ON in MacOS as you get some odd behaviour sometimes if you don't. Especially if you get a notification.

* Settings on 4. You can safely up texture resolution to high if you prefer detailed character models.

* 64% render scale. Set scaling to AMD FSR if you want it to look nicer. It defaults to point scaling for some reason.

You will be able to quest and raid and m+ to your hearts content and not worry about where you're pointing the camera.

No the MBA is not an ideal gaming laptop. But no reason to be tech illiterate and not solve problems. Back in my daaay I turned off windows processes in order to survive on 32MB RAM during the early 2000's. Lazy kids today can probably not even find regedit!

no, it can't, because the macbook air doesn't have active cooling, so if you try to do something that requires full workloads for long periods of time, it will severely thermal throttle, again, if you're going to argue a point at least make sure you're correct and not try to be an asshat.

If you by "Severely" you mean ~25% performance throttle give or take.

Used my M2 MBA for color grading and delivering TV-shows since I got it. It's fine.

You think DaVinci Resolve would be developed and launched for the passively cooled iPad if the M2 just croaked under pressure?

[ldev]

pc peasants rising against arm revolution, so sweet <3

save a little and you can escape the shit ecosystem of microsoft, intel and nvidia

or don't and normalise 400 watt cpus and 900 watt gpus

I bet Greta hates x86, so much energy wasted