Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

[Spiritus]

I would never take more than 1 point in nature's reach, 15% threat reduction in plenty and range is easily compensated for in play style, if i went no points in it I'd probably go with vigilance from our warrior tank.

Damage meters aren't everything, brambles is quite an increase to your treants, which timed right before a lust or multiple times some fights is considerable damage.
Quite aside from that, 75% increase in thorns is still damage done by your spec directly(not recorded for you on meters), every single time tank is hit, by any mob hitting tank.

The origonal posters spec with omen, 3 points brambles and 1 less out of natures reach is my prefered spec most fights.

The Nature's Reach debate is kind of hard to push pending on your rotation and your gear. I tend to have threat issues WITH Nature's Reach on certain boss'. My tanks are very well geared and, aside from our warrior tank, they have no known threat issues. If I were to take it off, fights like Hodir and Vezax would have to be drastically toned down. As far as brambles, you would get an extra 20k every 3m, imo, that's not that much either. As for Thorns, prolly another 200 a tick? I don't have a WWS report to give the possibilities of that. Personally, I'd feel more content going for OF IF I was considering Brambles, which I'm not.

[Khad]

3.2 info double check

"Balance of Power Increases your chance to hit with all spells and reduces the damage taken by all spells by 3/6%. (Old - Reduced chance you'll be hit by spells 2/4%)"

This and the link that mmo gives for the talent description says we get 6% to hit from this. Am i missing (pun intended :P ) something or do we actyally get to drop additional 2% hit from our gear? Not that we need it tbh, am way over the hit cap as it is.

Khad

[Degrador]

This and the link that mmo gives for the talent description says we get 6% to hit from this. Am i missing (pun intended :P ) something or do we actyally get to drop additional 2% hit from our gear? Not that we need it tbh, am way over the hit cap as it is.

Certainly seems that way, but I'd be surprised if it stays. That'd put balance druids well above any other class in terms of hit from talents, especially given we provide the hit chance taken debuff as well (IFF).

Perhaps it's a Blizzard response to complaints on lack of hit on non-set leather caster gear? Personally though I think the intention will just be to change the chance to be hit by spells reduction to 3/6% while the chance to hit stays at 2/4% and they've just made a mistake for PTR.

[Lightstrike]

I've only recently got my moonkin to 80 (literally 3 days ago), so as the person I am, I'm going through moonkin sites and theorycraft to find out what's what. Therefore I have a few questions:

1) I'm currently using what appears to be a lunar eclipse rotation, DoTs, wrath spam, starfire spam.. rinse and repeat.
Is this the right rotation for someone just gearing up? And what sort of stats should I be looking for to compliment this rotation?
I'm not hit capped yet, but I'm tryign to get there as a pick up gear.. so far I've literally been picking up whatever I coudl get my hands on to get rid of my questing blues and I'm only a few slots short of full epic.

2) Is there any sort of optimum balance between certain stats which gives the best dps output? For example is there an optimum amount of crit to get before it isn't worth getting anymore and another stat is preferred?

3) Are there any items for moonkins currently that are a bit out of place and are vastly superior to anything else of the same level, e.g. grim toll for warriors humping Arpen.

4) Similar to number 3, what trinkets are best for moonkins?

I realise it might seem like I'm wanting to avoid looking things up myself, but this is my first caster DPS character tbh, I'm all used to tanking and melee dps, so any help would be appreciated

[Spiritus]

I've only recently got my moonkin to 80 (literally 3 days ago), so as the person I am, I'm going through moonkin sites and theorycraft to find out what's what. Therefore I have a few questions:

1) I'm currently using what appears to be a lunar eclipse rotation, DoTs, wrath spam, starfire spam.. rinse and repeat.
Is this the right rotation for someone just gearing up? And what sort of stats should I be looking for to compliment this rotation?
I'm not hit capped yet, but I'm tryign to get there as a pick up gear.. so far I've literally been picking up whatever I coudl get my hands on to get rid of my questing blues and I'm only a few slots short of full epic.

2) Is there any sort of optimum balance between certain stats which gives the best dps output? For example is there an optimum amount of crit to get before it isn't worth getting anymore and another stat is preferred?

3) Are there any items for moonkins currently that are a bit out of place and are vastly superior to anything else of the same level, e.g. grim toll for warriors humping Arpen.

4) Similar to number 3, what trinkets are best for moonkins?

I realise it might seem like I'm wanting to avoid looking things up myself, but this is my first caster DPS character tbh, I'm all used to tanking and melee dps, so any help would be appreciated

Meh, no need to be shy. I don't think your asking too much tbh. It's the people that come in asking all the basics that frustrate readers.

1) A Lunar Rotation is usual the beginning blocks for most Moonkins. The only time a Solar Rotation should really be used are fights that maintain heavy movement. If your standing still most of the time then Lunar (IFF + MF + IS + Wrath*x + [eclipse] + Starfire*x) is going to come out on top for raw figures. To gear for Lunar, you will want to build haste like crazy. Getting to 500+ haste is a must to make that rotation worth it. On the flip side, a Solar Rotation is suggested to have less then 400 haste; so, if your having trouble picking up haste gear, check your crit. If it's around 20% while not in moonkin form, you would probably be best off using a Solar Rotation (IFF + MF + IS + Starfire*x + [eclipse] + Wrath*x).

2) As far as optimum balance, I kind of hinted at some in #1. 550-600 haste is suggested for Lunar rotations pre-3.1. It was suggested to have average crit and stack up the spellpower after that. Just as a guideline, I have about 515 haste, 23% crit, and 2250 spellpower self-buffed in Moonkin Form (disregard the sig, it has yet to be updated). Solar Rotations have a soft-cap for haste at 400. This is set so that you don't reach GCD clipping (meaning you have to wait on your GCD before you can cast another Wrath). On a solar rotation you generally want your crit to be 30%+ in Moonkin Form.

3) I'm going to reverse the perspective on this question; are you asking: "What items are at the top of the list to get for Moonkins?" If so, then your answer would probably be a weapon. We get most of our SP from weapons. Whether it be a MH+OH or a Staff (Ulduar loot only), get ahold of some gear. Tbh, there really isn't any godsend item for Moonkins. I just went off a pre-3.1 BiS list until now. In both T7 and T8 we only use 4 pieces of our 5 piece set. Thus, tier pieces are always good to collect.

4) For a list of the new BiS items you can go here. However, if your just starting out, those trinkets aren't going to be obtainable for some time. I would recommend, especially if your struggling with hit, to get Mark of the War Prisoner off Heroic Violet Hold. The next easiest trinket to obtain at your level would be the 40 badge reward: Sundial of the Exiled.

[monkeypie]

hmmm dont usually post on forums but thought i could give a hand and well i skipped 5 of the pages so if im repeating something sorry in advance,

From the 1st page i dont agree on the spec that was given out, for any 25man and even 10 mans youd want a spec something allong the lines of this:

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000

Personally its the spec that i find best, For boss dps, i mean lets be honest there are no points for max dps on trash,

rotation wise, its simple, just play smart, with the idols for SF and Wrath the eclipse proc is pretty much the same, varying about 100 dps gap between lunar and solar, were as solar being the more higher dps proc, but also ooom factor comes into play allot quicker,. so what im trying to say is basically on which eclipse you want to proc depends on the fight ( high movement fights, long fights ect) and your mana pool, but soon thats not going to make much difference, with the new patch comeiing out and the balance changes its more beneficial to eclipse twist, gaining you roughly a 20-30% dps increase.

As for rotations, that completely depends agian on what your trying to proc, but its always FF (unless there are ferals and a SP) MF IS then the relative nuke to proc the eclipse your after,

As for stats, Haste isnt as important anymore, you can get away with 400+ but i wouldnt recomend going any lower, Personally i have about 3k sp 450 haste 300 hit 29% crit, raid buffed, but im still not at the targets i want and still have allot of gear to change out, all i can say is, get your hit cap, 269 with talents and a SP is a must, after that its pretty much sp> haste/crit > Spi, the reason i rate haste and crit the same is simple for the fact that Natures swiftness change and that crit is a far superior mp5 then Dreamstate/intensity if that makes sense ( sorry long posts i tend to ramble on)

as for gear and BiS, personally i recomend 4/5 8.5, Which peice you then sub out is then dependant on what other items you have, (rings/tinqs/weps/ bracers), which it is where it comes down to you to decide on if you swap this out your going to lose hit cap ect ect,

As i saw someone mention earlier about staffs and mh+oh combos, there is only one, yes one staff that is viable for balance, and thats Hodir Hardmode staff, thats it end off, dont go for anything else, youll only lose out on dps, even that isnt as good as the best mh/oh combo, (Vezzax hardmode mace + Leviathan manul)

dont know if im makeing sense here or just rambling now, so ill stop, but i do know balance inside out, as well as the other specs for druid so any Q's ill be happy to answer any pm or replys to this tearing my post to peice

[Lightstrike]

Thanks for the response Spiritus, I was beginning to regret putting it in the stick since a fresh post probably nets more views and replies.

With regards to 1 & 2, I havent really be stacking haste so far, my gear is quite poor right now, not full epic yet.. I've got a fair bit of crit and im trying to get hit items as much as possible, not even hitcapped yet so it's a slow process. I only have 131 haste rating so far which seems terribad considering what I'm aiming for... around 1.75k spellpower selfbuffed in moonkin form right now. My druid is called Moontang on Outland EU if you care to take a look. As I said though right now I'm just grasping at everything I can and I'll swap things in and out as I improve. I've been after the right trinkets at least!

Regarding #3, What I meant was, are there some items from lower iLvl brackets which are vastly superior to higher ones purely because of the type of stats they bring, for example my tank is extremely well geared, but I still use the Monarch Crab trinket.
I think trinkets are the most likely slot for the items to be in, but perhaps there are some items out there with a fuckload of hit or haste which would buffer me enough to upgrade the rest of my gear, example here from tanking being seal of the pantheon or repelling charge.


I'm sure I'll eventually go right into the theorycraft of balance dps, just as I did with paladin tanking, but I guess I have to start somewhere... bored at work for the next 11 hours so I guess I can read themoonkinrepository inside out.

[Spiritus]

From the 1st page i dont agree on the spec that was given out, for any 25man and even 10 mans youd want a spec something allong the lines of this:

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000

Personally its the spec that i find best, For boss dps, i mean lets be honest there are no points for max dps on trash,

That's the same spec ... just with MP5 talents filled in. The spec gave you room to put the talents where you pleased.

with the idols for SF and Wrath the eclipse proc is pretty much the same, varying about 100 dps gap between lunar and solar, were as solar being the more higher dps proc

No, no, and no. The procs are not the same, they vary based off your current statistics, not a flat "100 dps." If your claiming they vary 100 dps between both optimal gear sets for each other, or the new BiS Lunar gear (which is so close to the Solar set) I could believe it. However, It's been shown that Lunar comes out on top, if not by a minor amount, as far as sit-n-cast dummy target data.

As for stats, Haste isnt as important anymore, you can get away with 400+ but i wouldnt recomend going any lower, Personally i have about 3k sp 450 haste 300 hit 29% crit, raid buffed

Haste is still very important. You can more then get away with 400+. 400 is simply the Solar soft-cap. I'd say your stats make you extremely viable for a Solar Rotation, hence why your promoting it as higher DPS. Wouldn't mind an armory link though. Something irks me about people posting numbers like "about 3k sp" and just continuing the conversation. Call it jealousy!

Natures swiftness change and that crit is a far superior mp5 then Dreamstate/intensity if that makes sense

Nature's Grace? I think what you meant to say is that, with a high crit, less haste is required? This cannot be compared to "haste is less important."

As i saw someone mention earlier about staffs and mh+oh combos, there is only one, yes one staff that is viable for balance, and thats Hodir Hardmode staff, thats it end off, dont go for anything else, youll only lose out on dps, even that isnt as good as the best mh/oh combo, (Vezzax hardmode mace + Leviathan manul)

I would beg to differ on the OH. Ironmender is kingpin of OH's when we have so much hit on our tier already. As for MH's, I assume your talking about the shared Hard Mode loot table spell dagger? The staff: Staff of Endless Winter.

[SBS]

He's talking about the mace from vezax hm 10-man, which is pretty decent. 3k sp also isn't that hard to reach raidbuffed (think I'm at 3140 raidbuffed atm, without the 125 from broodmother trinket).

Agree with the rest of your post though Spiritus.

[monkeypie]

btw too lazy to quote, and so spiritus heres and armoury link
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ol&n=Monkeypie

and as for proccing eclipse yes, the dps difference is minimal, between the both, but out of experience, not just "sit-n-cast" data, solar is the higher dps,
but as i also said thats soon to change in the next patch when the 30s icd gets taken of shared and onto independant so it will be more or less to do with eclipse twisiting,

And actually since the change ( cant rember what patch) to natureswiftness being a %base instead of a 0,5s it isnt as important now, stat rateings have changed to be more leaniant towards crit, simply because of the way Ns works now, and the fact that eclipse is crit dependant, so even befor the change i still would have rated it more then haste (marginally) but now a fair bit more then haste, as haste is only imporant untill you have arround 400 as said above,

and yes on the oh thing i did actually mean iron mender not fueling manuel, sorry on that one and the mace i was refering too is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46035 and the only staff that should ever be considered over a mh/oh combo is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45457 as you said,

also i might also like to add i have tested variants of the balance spec, rotations, stat rateing ect, and what i post are what i find the most effective at endgame raiding in my experience, and i will stick by what i said.

[Spiritus]

and as for proccing eclipse yes, the dps difference is minimal, between the both, but out of experience, not just "sit-n-cast" data, solar is the higher dps,

That's fine. If you feel that, you personally, have higher DPS doing that, I have no beef with you; but, you didn't. You said, flatly, that it was a 100 dps increase towards Solar. That would be, by spreadsheet and dummy target analysis, collected by the EJ theorycrafting community, wrong. Usually, if you post your data, you would want to post the circumstances (i.e. you now talking about a non-"sit-n-cast" scenario) and/or post the math. Especially in a Balance Druid guide thread, it is misleading.

[monkeypie]

That's fine. If you feel that, you personally, have higher DPS doing that, I have no beef with you; but, you didn't. You said, flatly, that it was a 100 dps increase towards Solar. That would be, by spreadsheet and dummy target analysis, collected by the EJ theorycrafting community, wrong. Usually, if you post your data, you would want to post the circumstances (i.e. you now talking about a non-"sit-n-cast" scenario) and/or post the math. Especially in a Balance Druid guide thread, it is misleading.

the fact that you think in a guide that i would use a sit n cast scenario is pretty dumb, i mean how many sit and casts encounters are there? very few, i dont see why people always compare things to sit and cast encounters as there are high manoverablility encounters, or have certain jobs to do anyway, yes if you want to max your dps on a training dummy go for lunar, in an actual encounter solar, pretty much speaks for itself,
pretty much like i said earlier in my 1st post, its up to you to play smart to maximise your dps, not just going down to a spreadsheet following the instructions and hopeing that you can just sit n cast, just not real,

and as for beef, there was never anybetween us so duno were you got the idea there was, just 2 difference of opinions,

but ok ill re word it,
Personally, after all my personal experience as a druid and testing with lunar and solar eclipses, and having set items for each type of eclipse rotation, in a general boss encounter (not sit-n-cast hitting the test dummy) i find Solar to be allot more beneficial and higher dps,
does that make more sense?

****EDIT****
Also did some calculations, just using the items i have on in the armoury, heres the *raid buffed* Dps calculations for each rotation (take note i have taken into account, frost wyrm flask, 40crit food,personal innervate, over a 5 min fight, but have missed out buffs such as heroic presence ect)


Lunar: 5702dps

Solar: 5717dps

and yes i have taken into account different idols in my calculations for this also,
like i said minimal at best dps increase, and back to i originaly stated, if you want to maximise your dps its just playing smart, simple things like lunar on bloodlusts as 0.5sec casts on wraths are pointless as with 400 haste its a 1.3 sec cast and with a NS its a 1.0 sec,... ect ect ect

[Spiritus]

I'm not trying to get angry at you. I don't typically do that unless someone decides to post something blatantly wrong, yours was not. The beef I was talking about was you going against the grain of the community on the Solar Rotation DPS output versus the Lunar Rotation DPS output. After you said it was your own personal data, that's fine. The term "beef" was really meant as a jest. Not like "SRS BSNS."

The only reason I ride posts on a guide thread are just that. I don't think people should come to a guide thread and read theories, I think they should read fact. That said, it's not my thread, nor do I have the power to stop it. I do have the power of my opinion, which is what I bring to the table here.

Addressing the "sit-n-cast" scenario. Your 100% right about the movement and it's effects on our DPS. Your 100% right on Solar Rotation being kingpin on movement. What you may not understand right away, is that we use a sit-n-cast type of data as a test case. It's kind of like saying "How does an airplane fair at altitudes of 20,000 meters?" We may not know unless we have a test case to match it up with. The sit-n-cast data mined for Boomkins shows the relativity of one eclipse proc to the other based off how much movement is in the fight. That is all, period. It is not a relative figure of what you WOULD put out. Though, I would beg to claim that you sit more then you move in most fights.

[monkeypie]

i like SRS BSNS! <- lol

but yes, i never disagreed with you either just my opinion and experience with raiding as it stands atm, and like you say theoretically lunar is better, so i think were both agreeing to agree with each and at the same time contradict ourselfs

[Deleted]

1) A Lunar Rotation is usual the beginning blocks for most Moonkins. The only time a Solar Rotation should really be used are fights that maintain heavy movement. If your standing still most of the time then Lunar (IFF + MF + IS + Wrath*x + [eclipse] + Starfire*x) is going to come out on top for raw figures. To gear for Lunar, you will want to build haste like crazy. Getting to 500+ haste is a must to make that rotation worth it. On the flip side, a Solar Rotation is suggested to have less then 400 haste; so, if your having trouble picking up haste gear, check your crit. If it's around 20% while not in moonkin form, you would probably be best off using a Solar Rotation (IFF + MF + IS + Starfire*x + [eclipse] + Wrath*x).

Thanks, I saw people in the elitist jerks thread mentioning a lunar and solar rotation, but I had no idea what it implied. I'm not a balance druid myself, but there is someone in my guild that needs help with gearing/rotation, so since I have time on my hands at work I did some research.

One talent I find very difficult to understand, and I assume you know which one. Eclipse.

According to your answer a lunar rotation consists of IFF + MF + IS + Wrath*x + [eclipse] + Starfire*x?
The first four spells are quite easy to understand why you use them first, having played a shadowpriest throughout tbc and now an elemental shaman alt, I know how crucial it is to keep dots and debuffs up.

So after applying your dots the wrath spam starts, then when eclipse procs you start spamming starfire. That part I got right. Now my question is, do I keep spamming starfire even when eclipse ends, or do I stop casting starfire when eclipse ends and go back to spamming wrath?

My second question, I've read multiple times about an Icd of eclipse, could you explain this to me a bit further, as to maximize its potential.

Thanks in advance.

[Cerelli]

Thanks, I saw people in the elitist jerks thread mentioning a lunar and solar rotation, but I had no idea what it implied. I'm not a balance druid myself, but there is someone in my guild that needs help with gearing/rotation, so since I have time on my hands at work I did some research.

One talent I find very difficult to understand, and I assume you know which one. Eclipse.

According to your answer a lunar rotation consists of IFF + MF + IS + Wrath*x + [eclipse] + Starfire*x?
The first four spells are quite easy to understand why you use them first, having played a shadowpriest throughout tbc and now an elemental shaman alt, I know how crucial it is to keep dots and debuffs up.

So after applying your dots the wrath spam starts, then when eclipse procs you start spamming starfire. That part I got right. Now my question is, do I keep spamming starfire even when eclipse ends, or do I stop casting starfire when eclipse ends and go back to spamming wrath?

My second question, I've read multiple times about an Icd of eclipse, could you explain this to me a bit further, as to maximize its potential.

Thanks in advance.

The internal cooldown of eclipse is 30 seconds long. Which means that you will spend 15 seconds of that with the actual eclipse buff. The following 15 seconds, you will be unable to proc another eclipse, so you just need to maintain your dots and keep hitting starfire till the cooldown has expired.

Note that if you cast 1 too many starfires and you go past the cooldown timer, you run the risk of procing a solar eclipse. Not the end of the world, but your guildie has to be aware of the situation and react accordingly.

Get the SquawkandAwe addon and being able to track your proc/CD timers will be a lot simpler.

[procne]

short question: why is haste better than crit? can someone point me to detailed calculations which take into account nature's splendor and eclipse proccing?

[Deleted]

So i need to run some concerns with the boomkin community. I recently switched to boomkin, and got myself a new home - filled with quite competent people. They have been clearing 25 man Uld. for a while, where i have only been doing 10 man Ulduar, and my gear only came to me when nobody needed it for main spec. Never the less, when i joined them, i was decently geared for boomkin in Ulduar, and we weren't too worried about the damage difference since that would, eventually, be smaller.

For good meassure, here is my armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...scream&n=Qieth.

My armory doesn't show the changes made yesterday, however. A T8,5 chest landed in my bags, and that allowed me to put on T8 gloves aswell, so i wouldn't just lose my 4p set bonus for nothing. Because of the extra hit, i put on Plasma foil and Ward of the Violet Citadel, and i smacked a +16 hit gem in my belt so i would be hit capped. Now all of these changes were for the most part quite nice. I got another 61 spell power, i got a bit more haste (although i am scraping the cap with 434 haste rating). I did, however, lose an awful lot of crit. From gear alone i lost 0,8%, which i suppose is fine. But i also lost 5% crit on wrath and starfire because of breaking T74P set bonus. This brings me to a staggering -5,8% crit.

When i look at other balance druids, abeit those a bit better geared than myself, i see a higher crit even with T8 gear. I worry how the change in crit (dispite gaining T82P bonus) will effect my DPS. When i joined the guild, several gear upgrades ago, i could regulary do 3,3-3,5k DPS on a target dummy. After the upgrades, i managed a steady 3,7k DPS. Thats all fine and dandy, in terms of comparing gear (yes yes, target dummies is just target dummies) but i did *feel* like i was running out of mana faster, and eclipse procs came signifigantly slower.

To boil it all down, i suppose my concerns are:

- Will the 5,8% loss in crit hurt my mana regen too much?
- Will the 2pt8 bonus and the crits i get there, make up for the loss of damage and mana regen that i lose from the 5,8%?
- Do i worry too much? :P

[Deleted]

Thanks for your response!

No what i meant with Q2 was if the loss in crit would be made up by the T82P bonus. I notice other druids having a lot more crit than myself. This is obviously from better gear, but i am currently at 20,5-21% crit with the new gear, selfbuffed.

All in all, i want to be doing more damage, naturally, and the upgrades should do this. My "curriosity" goes on, however, if my crit will be too low to run a reliable eclipse rotation, which will then effect the points above.

(I was feral since late TBC until when Dual Spec came about, where i really took interest in boomkin'ing, so i am still soaking knowledge)

EDIT the day after: Pfft, silly me, everything went fine! :P

[littlejohnn]

ok I am a disc priest but our guild doesn't have a boomkin authority. I am trying to help a guildy out to improve DPS/Damage output during 25 Uld. Below is the armory link and our guilds version of WWS.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...dar&n=Tryingit

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...um/damageDone/

I hope with that info you can help me with these big questions:

Is her current spec working?

what eclipse she should be going for because as I understand it since we move alot in these fight she should start w/ wrath till eclipse

She has 4 T8 but uses split t8 t7,5 because her stats take a hit. what gear should she be wearing.

Basically all I know is healing and hunters are easy boomkins are not.