SoV dot question

[Dolfe]

Didnt find any topic about it so:

•Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage. In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack.

Does this mean its considered a bleedeffect and will deal more damage with trauma?

[Srsbznss]

holy dmg is not bleeding dmg.... so me thinks not.

[TripleSix]

It just isn't subject to dispel mechanics anymore, that's it.

[Shazjia]

Which makes it abit more viable in pvp.
Anti-rogue seal imo

[tlitd]

HV/BC in 3.1 live :

• use the spell hit table
• non-physical damage component, subject to resists
• can be dispelled
• cannot crit

HV/BC in 3.2 PTR (10048) :

• use the physical hit table (keep in mind that bleed-like DoT effects can only hit or miss)
• non-physical damage component, subject to resists
• can be dispelled
• cannot crit, so they cannot fire off AoW

TLDR : they're not bleeds, but bleed-like DoT spell effects

Blizzard can be accused of many things, but at least they're consistent with their design philosophy - as always, paladin mechanics are slightly, just slightly unintuitive :]

[Deleted]

HV/BC in 3.2 PTR (10048) :
...

• can be dispelled

...
TLDR : they're not bleeds, but bleed-like DoT spell effects

"In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack."
Hence they cannot be dispelled any longer.

[Maneken]

"In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack."
Hence they cannot be dispelled any longer.

Only 1 way to find out...
Ill log on ptr to check it

[iktankniet]

im curious which type will increase the dmg of SoV ticks. trauma or the DK magic debuff.

too bad i aint got the time to find out

[Spamor]

^
Maybe both ? would be nice

[Neyleirinn]

Does anyone in the PTR tested the Seal to verify if the 33% MW damage is linked to the stacks while you have the seal, or it persist even if you have not?

Seems that going SoV to build up DoT and then going Soc is like having the DoT + 69% MW damage on each attack is way, way too much tempting to not having the evidence. After all, the blue only said that "when your target a 5 stacks of SoV, it takes 33% MW as Holy each strikes.".

Considering even the Judgement (SoC ones does less than SoV ones, a 5 stacks, I know) does this "Seal-Twisting" would be viable? I know, It should cost a bunch of mana to turn SoC to SoV to perform that 1 hit who will refresh the stack on the boss, but nevertheless, with glyph of SoC you will hardly get OOM and now that the JoL is nerfed, you have no escuse not to drop JoW, (until someone does it already).

Thanks for the responses, no flaming plz .

[Ronark]

Does anyone in the PTR tested the Seal to verify if the 33% MW damage is linked to the stacks while you have the seal, or it persist even if you have not?

Seems that going SoV to build up DoT and then going Soc is like having the DoT + 69% MW damage on each attack is way, way too much tempting to not having the evidence. After all, the blue only said that "when your target a 5 stacks of SoV, it takes 33% MW as Holy each strikes.".

Considering even the Judgement (SoC ones does less than SoV ones, a 5 stacks, I know) does this "Seal-Twisting" would be viable? I know, It should cost a bunch of mana to turn SoC to SoV to perform that 1 hit who will refresh the stack on the boss, but nevertheless, with glyph of SoC you will hardly get OOM and now that the JoL is nerfed, you have no escuse not to drop JoW, (until someone does it already).

Thanks for the responses, no flaming plz .

The 33% weapon damage is considered Vengeance's Seal Hit: Therefore, if you used say Command, you don't get the 33% weapon damage because SoC's Seal Hit is the flat 36% damage.

Also Seal Twisting is no longer available, since seals cost a lot of mana: In essence Blizzard increased Seal mana cost so you can't change seals as often in battle.

[Spanka]

Does anyone in the PTR tested the Seal to verify if the 33% MW damage is linked to the stacks while you have the seal, or it persist even if you have not?

Seems that going SoV to build up DoT and then going Soc is like having the DoT + 69% MW damage on each attack is way, way too much tempting to not having the evidence. After all, the blue only said that "when your target a 5 stacks of SoV, it takes 33% MW as Holy each strikes.".

In reguards to this, I believe the intent of the post was to say that, instead of the pittiful 40 or so dmg you get on melee attack after you 5 stack Ven/Cor on live, while the seal is active you will get that 33% bonus.

As for seal twisting, I doubt its what bliz had in mind for us. it is an interesting strat, but would probably run us oom in less than a min of fighting. So I doubt you'll see it in PvE... AS for PvP? It might be a way for us to get some burst. Roll Ven/Cor to 5 stacks and switch off to Command for the dot + Commands 69% dmg. To me it might depend on what your looking at for judgments with Command.

Someone might try a short DPS test, 20-30 seconds, 1 time with Veng/cor the whole time, one with command the whole time, and one with ven/cor to start off and after 5 stack hitting command.

[Ronark]

In reguards to this, I believe the intent of the post was to say that, instead of the pittiful 40 or so dmg you get on melee attack after you 5 stack Ven/Cor on live, while the seal is active you will get that 33% bonus.

As for seal twisting, I doubt its what bliz had in mind for us. it is an interesting strat, but would probably run us oom in less than a min of fighting. So I doubt you'll see it in PvE... AS for PvP? It might be a way for us to get some burst. Roll Ven/Cor to 5 stacks and switch off to Command for the dot + Commands 69% dmg. To me it might depend on what your looking at for judgments with Command.

Someone might try a short DPS test, 20-30 seconds, 1 time with Veng/cor the whole time, one with command the whole time, and one with ven/cor to start off and after 5 stack hitting command.

Lets put it this way: You only get the 33% weapon damage if you refresh your 5 stack of Holy Vengeance. Since Seal of Command does not refresh the DoT, it does not gain an extra 33% base weapon damage per each swing.

[Spanka]

Lets put it this way: You only get the 33% weapon damage if you refresh your 5 stack of Holy Vengeance. Since Seal of Command does not refresh the DoT, it does not gain an extra 33% base weapon damage per each swing.

Pfff. way to go and say it better than me.

Just to clarify, the part you highlighted is only intended to mean, dmg from the Veng/Cor dot previously applied + the dmg you would get from running Command. ( I wasn't looking at the new spell at the time and was quoting what was posted earlier in this thread.) Command is 36% not 69 as I posted before.

[Ronark]

Pfff. way to go and say it better than me.

Just to clarify, the part you highlighted is only intended to mean, dmg from the Veng/Cor dot previously applied + the dmg you would get from running Command

The DoT ticks for about 1k damage or so when fully stacked on my PTR paladin (with the same stats as listed in my sig, give or take).

Since it ticks every 3 seconds for a total of 15 seconds, it will deal 5k damage only.

[Neyleirinn]

You guys misread or I miswrite :P

From what i've read of the blue, once the mob as 5 stacks of SoV, your melee hits does 33% more holy damage.

Nothing here tells me that you actually need to get SoV to get this holy damage, just 5 stack of the debuff.

So.

Get 5 stack. Put SoC. What whil happen? You get the 33% of 5 stacked debuff, and 36% from SoC. Add up.

Well, that's 69% indead =).

[Spanka]

After actualy looking at the 2 spells (instead of being lazy on my lunch break), The dmg gained from rolling to Command is on;y 3% on the seal and what appears to be alot less on the judgments. So its probably not a realistic thought that seal twisting in the way I mentioned will give you any DPS boost.

[iktankniet]

You guys misread or I miswrite :P

From what i've read of the blue, once the mob as 5 stacks of SoV, your melee hits does 33% more holy damage.

Nothing here tells me that you actually need to get SoV to get this holy damage, just 5 stack of the debuff.

So.

Get 5 stack. Put SoC. What whil happen? You get the 33% of 5 stacked debuff, and 36% from SoC. Add up.

Well, that's 69% indead =).

ok ill tell you. you need 5 stacks up. after that, every '6th' stack(which is every hit after a 5 stack) will be converted to +33% extra weapon dmg. so no switching to SoC

[Spanka]

You guys misread or I miswrite  :P

From what i've read of the blue, once the mob as 5 stacks of SoV, your melee hits does 33% more holy damage.

Nothing here tells me that you actually need to get SoV to get this holy damage, just 5 stack of the debuff.

So.

Get 5 stack. Put SoC. What whil happen? You get the 33% of 5 stacked debuff, and 36% from SoC. Add up.

Well, that's 69% indead =).

I got what you were saying. If we look at the post: (Wish I could post it in the blue text)

Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from  [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

Remember that the Seal of Vengence part was a link of the actual spell, and that this whole sentance is denoted by a single bullet point.

This leads me to read it as a single thought about the spell Seal of Vengence. Meaning that the 33% weapon dmg is an added portion of the seal not the dot. i.e. you have to have the seal running for the 33% extra dmg.

[Ronark]

I got what you were saying. If we look at the post: (Wish I could post it in the blue text)

Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 13% of AP + 6.5% of Spell Power ] Holy damage (down from [ 15% of AP + 7.8% of Spell Power ]) and has a new effect - Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

Remember that the Seal of Vengence part was a link of the actual spell, and that this whole sentance is denoted by a single bullet point.

This leads me to read it as a single thought about the spell Seal of Vengence. Meaning that the 33% weapon dmg is an added portion of the seal not the dot. i.e. you have to have the seal running for the 33% extra dmg.

The added part of ".... with critical strikes casuing double damage" only applied to that extra 33% and not, say, Exo/Judgement/CS/DS which some people inclined to believe (myself included).