I don't understand this

[Paladannie]

Oke for several days i have been looking at the 2-set bonus for the new Holy T9 Set But i can't understand why blizz choose for this buff *Increases the duration of your judgement by 10s* While this could prove a minor buff if you play 5 man (and perhaps 10man If you the only pally) cause you have too cast judgement far less. I don't understand why we have a buff too a DPS/beneficial spell (beneficial cause thats what light and wisdom are) and all other healing sets get a buff too 1 of their healing spells. I have a little idea why blizz choose for this but from my point of view it still doesn;t bring much too the table. They could have thought that this way pallies would need too judge less and heal more but in most situations in 25 man instances your raid group would have at least a Ret-pally which will do Judgement of wisdom all the time (JoW is most beneficial and the 1 you always want up in my point of view) and your 25 man group would also have a Prot-pally which will judge Light and have this up most of the time which leaves healers with judgement of justice?

In my opinion the only reason i cast judgement is for the hast buff you get which lasts a minute and i will only cast it when the buff is almost down.

So to make a long story short. Who agrees with me that the 2set bonus on the pally healing set is useless in most situations, or am i overlooking something and been doing something horribly wrong with my judgement?

[Tsuya]

I see waht you mean here. in a 25man setting your judgements almost always get replaced by another paladin's. However, with this, it means you could potentially judge 2 targets on an easy rotation.
Sure you can do that now, but you only really have about 2 seconds overlap, which makes it tedious. with this set bonus you have alot more time

[gryffin]

dont holy pallies have a haste buff while the judgment is active on a boss?

also if the spell is being overwritten then they are not listening to the ret pally and trying to judge light at the same time,


or your in a pug with 9537175132 pallies and then yeah there is every chance that it will be overwritten, but you are not trying hard modes so it doesn't matter.

[iktankniet]

in 3.2 JoL wont scale anymore, so holy paladins can judge it for e-peen on healing meters again. i think the idea is that holy paladins wil have to spend less gcd's on judging JoL/W.

dont holy pallies have a haste buff while the judgment is active on a boss?

also if the spell is being overwritten then they are not listening to the ret pally and trying to judge light at the same time,

the haste buff and judgement are separate. JoL/W is actually a 'debuff' on the target. the haste is a buff on the paladin. overwriting doesnt matter.

[Paladannie]

Thanks for the replies till now

But i still hold on to the idea that in a normal Raid setup on 25 man (I know this is not always the case on hard modes) you are having at least 2 paladins in melee that keep the judgement up 100% of the time in 10 man this could prove differently cause there you would usually be the sole paladin or there are 2 paladins with 1 being in most cases a melee and keeping the most important debuff (JoW) up 100% of the time. Still in 10 and 5 man instances this could prove usefull altough it would prove minor but i don't see this bringing the kind of usefullness as say the priest 2set bonus having increased healing on PoM and still in most the cases where i would raid i would only cast Judgement every min or so just too keep my haste buff up I would have rather seen an increased duration on this for example this could bring more to a holy pally in my eyes.

iktankniet i didn't understand what you meant with JoL won't scale anymore i thought it never scaled but i could be horibly wrong of course, and i presume you mean scale with SP? (and offtopic for you if your name is iktankniet drop the tankspec :P)

Would love too hear from more pallies how they feel about the 2set bonus on this set (not QQ just interested on how other pallies see the use for it)

Cheeers all

[onaqui]

Perhaps to not give paladins more reason to use holy PVE gear in PVP?

[Tosicx]

Yea t9 sets sucks, i also cant understand ret paladin tier bonuses, i mean 2set bonus is stupid righteous vengeance beying able to crit, before 3.1 righteous vengeance was actually good dmg, i remember thaddious and that thing wassecond on dmg, but after 3.1 changes thats just crap

[Paladannie]

Sorry Sk83r i disagree the 2set bonusses on the tank and ret set are very nice the chance for RV too crit could mean a very good DPS increase can't say it in numbers (have too calculate some stuff) but i think you could see some big DPS increase with it. As for the tank 2set bonus a shorter CD on taunt and more dmg on 1 of your best aggro abilities seems like a very solid and good set bonus too me.

just can't get my head around the holy 2set bonus

[iktankniet]

up till now, paladins always had pretty decent set bonuses. the 2p bonus might not be great, but i heard the 4p is great.

RV dmg will go up because judgement will be over 10k again in raids. since crits are getting bigger, RV ticks will also. the dmg increase of it depends on the crit %.

iktankniet i didn't understand what you meant with JoL won't scale anymore i thought it never scaled but i could be horibly wrong of course, and i presume you mean scale with SP? (and offtopic for you if your name is iktankniet drop the tankspec :P)

read the paladin 3.2 patch notes. JoL will not scale with AP/SP anymore. it does in 3.1. thats why ret is always judging it, because they scale better.

in 3.2, JoL will heal 2% of your max mana pool. no more, no less. i dont know if divinity affects this

about my name. i know! but i just helped out a friend

[Paladannie]

Thanks for all the replies again and thank you for clearing it up again i forgot bout that change and did not take it in considaration but this would mean the usefullness would be even worse cause a holy pally with better gear then a ret, then holy would have overriden the effect of the ret. But this is all theory from me and i think i am rambling now.

As for the RV buff on the ret set just did some quick calculation here at work with my friends and with a decent geared pally you should see at least a 100 DPS increase overall on bossfights that last bout 3-4 min.

maybe someone else did some calculations cause i just did it on the fly i could have mistaken on some things.
Just considered a decent geared pally 4k AP and 30% crit and having his hitcap etc ofc.

[iktankniet]

how did you calculate the RV 100 dps? it might not crit from the players crit %, but have its own percentage.

[nwo]

Perhaps to not give paladins more reason to use holy PVE gear in PVP?

I doubt this will work in PVP, especially not with judgement of justice.

Think of the rogue's sap glyph which extends its duration by 10 seconds.
Does it work in PVP?
-No

[Dualkalibur]

Well, Blizz may still change the 2 piece, but I don't think so. Looks like a classic case of QQ causing confusion.

-Paladins bitched that healing was too boring, spamming the same button over and over so they nerfed illimination and added a weak HOT to FoL to try and spice it up and get rid of the QQ about not having a hot from the bad paladins who can't seem to heal unless they're EXACTLY like the other classes.

-Judgement of Light on a target is the paladins group heal. Quite honestly, probably the best group heal in the game according to the Blizzard number crunchers. No other class has a heal that can affect all 25 raid members at once, for 20 seconds, with an 8 second cooldown, and it can be kept up all fight. 25 people all hitting the boss at the same time and getting healed for a low 400 heal per hit is 400*25=10000 health restored in 1 second. Without the paladin having to target the raid members, and without a cast time.

With the change in 3.2 to making it a flat % of health restored: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patch...atchnotes.html
Judgement of Light: Now heals for 2% of the attacker's maximum health instead of a variable amount based on the spell power and attack power of the judging paladin.

It makes more sence to have a holy paladin judging light than a ret paly and having it scale with AP and SP. Like, really? A healing spell that scaled with attack power? That was just flat out wierd. Having it done by a Holy paladin returns it to a healing spell and not an offensive spell. But if you don't have a holy paladin or a prot in raid, the ret can still do it, thus "bring the player not the class."

As its our 'group heal spell', having a set bonus that increases the duration of our judgement thus increasing the uptime of the spell and lowering the GCD's used per minute, and lowering mana used per minute since they nerfed that a bit is probably what blizzard is thinking for having this on the Holy set.

But thats just my thoughts, I could be wrong.

[Caean]

Sounds like a reasonable take to me.

[luminae]

you know dual, for as long as i've been a paladin, i never really looked at JoL that way. kudos for a great way of looking at things.

[Endolicious]

JoL does a lot of overhealing, and it doesn't affect 25 raid members. The healers don't really benefit, nor does anybody but the tanks on certain fights. It's still a great spell, nonetheless.

Anyway, I saw the Holy T9 set bonus as, "Okay, so I have to cast it two times every minute instead of three times." Which translates into more than half a Holy Light or so.

It's not grounds to complain, in my opinion. Sure, there's been better, but I don't believe set bonuses are meant to change your entire playstyle.

[Ronark]

Sorry Sk83r i disagree the 2set bonusses on the tank and ret set are very nice the chance for RV too crit could mean a very good DPS increase can't say it in numbers (have too calculate some stuff) but i think you could see some big DPS increase with it. As for the tank 2set bonus a shorter CD on taunt and more dmg on 1 of your best aggro abilities seems like a very solid and good set bonus too me.

just can't get my head around the holy 2set bonus

how did you calculate the RV 100 dps? it might not crit from the players crit %, but have its own percentage.

Last number crunch I did on the 2 piece T9 for Ret, RV seemed to be independent with it's crit rating, with it being around 3-5% crit chance : /

[Endolicious]

Last number crunch I did on the 2 piece T9 for Ret, RV seemed to be independent with it's crit rating, with it being around 3-5% crit chance : /

Well let's hope that changes, considering Ret's DPS is pretty minimal to begin with.

[Whoopzz]

Sorry Sk83r i disagree the 2set bonusses on the tank and ret set are very nice the chance for RV too crit could mean a very good DPS increase can't say it in numbers (have too calculate some stuff) but i think you could see some big DPS increase with it. As for the tank 2set bonus a shorter CD on taunt and more dmg on 1 of your best aggro abilities seems like a very solid and good set bonus too me.

just can't get my head around the holy 2set bonus

I disagree in regards to the ret 2 set. RV accounts for about 5% of my total damage (which blows for 3 talent points), adding a small chance to crit to that might account for half a percent at best.

[iktankniet]

I disagree in regards to the ret 2 set. RV accounts for about 5% of my total damage (which blows for 3 talent points), adding a small chance to crit to that might account for half a percent at best.

judgement dmg will go up, so RV dmg automaticly goes up aswell.