Rate The Retribution Paladin Above You!

[Requital]

What are you talking about? Its yellow red, (BELT BUCKLET)

http://eu.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50995 Vengeful Noose...

It's still a DPS loss socketing for an Agi bonus over using a 20 Str I dunno who suggested the 10/10 for an agi socket bonus but that's just no good.

[Suggardaddy]

Your gearscore isn't capped, you have discraced your family.

[ammor]

It's still a DPS loss socketing for an Agi bonus over using a 20 Str I dunno who suggested the 10/10 for an agi socket bonus but that's just no good.

When I SIM'd it for me it was a slight DPS increase over a Straight 20STR gem, using a 10str/10crit. And many others have stated the same

[Ronark]

When I SIM'd it for me it was a slight DPS increase over a Straight 20STR gem, using a 10str/10crit. And many others have stated the same

That would depend on your gear at that time- However, I doubt you would be willing to re-gem after every new piece of gear.

[ammor]

That would depend on your gear at that time- However, I doubt you would be willing to re-gem after every new piece of gear.

Me indeed, my anal friend who now is a casual who doesn't raid with us anymore, would still spend 2k just for a 5DPS increase even without raiding in our core group anymore lol

[squiirtle]

Sawp. Heres me /character-sheet.xml?r=Smolderthorn&cn=Squiirtle (wont let me post links for some reason)
I need feedback GO!

[Nillo]

It's still a DPS loss socketing for an Agi bonus over using a 20 Str I dunno who suggested the 10/10 for an agi socket bonus but that's just no good.

6 Agi (~1.6) is almost equal to a +4 Str (1.66) slot so as long as you're not using tons of agi or crit items it's worth gemming for.

And with shitloads of AP (Shadowmourne) or 2p+2p even +4 agi can be worth it....

---------- Post added 2010-07-20 at 11:32 AM ----------

Sawp. Heres me /character-sheet.xml?r=Smolderthorn&cn=Squiirtle (wont let me post links for some reason)
I need feedback GO!

-2 Wtf do you want to do with a Glyph of Seal of Righteousness? => Use exorcism instead
-1 Mining is not a dps profession.

7/10

[Adamson]

What are you talking about? Its yellow red, (BELT BUCKLET)

http://eu.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50995 Vengeful Noose...

It's a good thing I'm not wearing the item you linked.

Edit: Nor have I ever worn that item.

It's still a DPS loss socketing for an Agi bonus over using a 20 Str I dunno who suggested the 10/10 for an agi socket bonus but that's just no good.

See above. And absolutely. I don't have any idea where this manifestation came from.

---------- Post added 2010-07-20 at 02:06 PM ----------

When I SIM'd it for me it was a slight DPS increase over a Straight 20STR gem, using a 10str/10crit. And many others have stated the same

I'm not going to regem every time I get a new piece of gear. To get a .2 dps gain on 2-3 sockets.

Edit: I have a personal affinity for unbuffed ap.

Edit2: Enough such that I will sacrifice .9 dps for 60 ap.

[Prentice]

So I went ahead and reran the numbers. Using my current gear, which utilizes very few agility pieces, you can see the suggested gemming of Vengeful Noose should I equip it. The difference is not .2 or .6 or even .9 DPS. The screenshot speaks for itself.



You can bet your ass that I would regem for a 5.77 DPS gain. The settings I used for this sim are fully raid buffed (minus Focus Magic and Amplify Magic), 4 minutes to simulate a Festergut-type fight, undead, and J>DS>CS>HoW>Con>Exo.

The mouseover information is from the highest DPS setup for Vengeful Noose with the fully strength-gemmed Noose below.

[ammor]

Good thing I wasn't even talking about you dude, I was talking about the person you rated not you. And yeah its called Min/ Maxing for the slightest Increase in DPS, in which alot of people in this game do that want to get the max dps out of there toons.

[Adamson]

Good thing I wasn't even talking about you dude, I was talking about the person you rated not you. And yeah its called Min/ Maxing for the slightest Increase in DPS, in which alot of people in this game do that want to get the max dps out of there toons.

It is indeed a good thing.

This Min/maxing. What is this. I've never heard of it before.

[Requital]

It is indeed a good thing.

This Min/maxing. What is this. I've never heard of it before.

Min Max?? Oh nm I quit doing that @ 15% Now I work on Min Maxing Ret DPS gear to tank heroics faster with top survivability as it's a bigger challenge than Icc.

[Adamson]

Min Max?? Oh nm I quit doing that @ 15% Now I work on Min Maxing Ret DPS gear to tank heroics faster with top survivability as it's a bigger challenge than Icc.

I dun't haz heroic bryntroll to healz me anymore

[Requital]

I dun't haz heroic bryntroll to healz me anymore

I miss Command proccing T10 DS spam I could heal/tank/dps in 1 role and save myself being with 3 baddies.


( Server being down for 24 hour maint I'm going to be a menace to these forums I think )

[Adamson]

I miss Command proccing T10 DS spam I could heal/tank/dps in 1 role and save myself being with 3 baddies.


( Server being down for 24 hour maint I'm going to be a menace to these forums I think )

I know! SS, art of war, tier 10 DS Spam, bryntroll.

Good times.

Edit: To back pedal, I'm all for min/maxing. But I'm honestly not going to worry myself with .2 theoretical dps increase per gem change anytime I change gear. Spreadsheets are nice for guidance. But for a long time I've made sure to tread carefully. They aren't gospel. That's my advice as a seasoned ret. In the end that 1dps really wont make a difference. In fact I think depending on RNG, depending on the fight either type of gemming could make the difference. And it's long been a belief I've held that these spreadsheets ALWAYS only calculate patchwerk style fights. If you have to move, having the guaranteed damage of more str than the rng damage of crit for example, would benefit you. Damage there all the time typically outweighs damage there 40-50% of the time.

Holy wall of txt batman.

[Requital]

I know! SS, art of war, tier 10 DS Spam, bryntroll.

Good times.

Edit: To back pedal, I'm all for min/maxing. But I'm honestly not going to worry myself with .2 theoretical dps increase per gem change anytime I change gear. Spreadsheets are nice for guidance. But for a long time I've made sure to tread carefully. They aren't gospel. That's my advice as a seasoned ret. In the end that 1dps really wont make a difference. In fact I think depending on RNG, depending on the fight either type of gemming could make the difference. And it's long been a belief I've held that these spreadsheets ALWAYS only calculate patchwerk style fights. If you have to move, having the guaranteed damage of more str than the rng damage of crit for example, would benefit you. Damage there all the time typically outweighs damage there 40-50% of the time.

Holy wall of txt batman.

This is why I have no faith in Haste gemming, I have always held true to Str -> Crit -> * after Hit being capped of course! IT hasn't lead me down the wrong road yet and I have plenty faith in my ability to play the class/game.

[Prentice]

I know! SS, art of war, tier 10 DS Spam, bryntroll.

Good times.

Edit: To back pedal, I'm all for min/maxing. But I'm honestly not going to worry myself with .2 theoretical dps increase per gem change anytime I change gear. Spreadsheets are nice for guidance. But for a long time I've made sure to tread carefully. They aren't gospel. That's my advice as a seasoned ret. In the end that 1dps really wont make a difference. In fact I think depending on RNG, depending on the fight either type of gemming could make the difference. And it's long been a belief I've held that these spreadsheets ALWAYS only calculate patchwerk style fights. If you have to move, having the guaranteed damage of more str than the rng damage of crit for example, would benefit you. Damage there all the time typically outweighs damage there 40-50% of the time.

Holy wall of txt batman.

Gonna go off on a tangent here, but its all relative, I promise.

Min/max'ing is something that many people overlook. Depending on your raid group/guild, gear, and playstyle it may not be a very big factor. To simply blow something off because of a personal preference is a much bigger mistake. Take sims and spreadsheets as you will, but they are there for a reason. To put it succinctly, "the proof is in the pudding".

Now try not to take offense, but I'm gonna throw out numbers. This isn't a personal attack.

ICC25 HM Festergut
Adamson's eDPS = 12,862 (avg ilvl = 267(pre-SM))
Requital's eDPS = 14,748 (avg ilvl = 273)
Innocense's eDPS = 14,562 (avg ilvl = 271)

As you can see, our overall gear levels are not that far apart. At the time of these parses, none of us had Shadowmourne. Adamson, min/max'ing is a much bigger deal that you make it and its definitely something you should be doing. Sure your damage will go up by a large margin with your new weapon, but your playstyle and approach could yield a much larger DPS increase than the weapon upgrade.

In that parse, you ate 2 Malleable Goo's. You didn't bubble off either of them and spend 40 seconds DPSing with the debuff. Your damage numbers are slightly inflated by the fact that you also got spored which yielded an extra 182k damage.

I also got Goo'd. Twice. Right before the end of the fight, our normal Goo caller decided to take a bit of a nap and the calls were a bit late. My only way to lessen the impact on my performance was to bubble. As such, I only spent 20 seconds Goo'd. I too got spored which yielded an extra 114k damage.

Requital didn't get Goo'd, nor did he get spored. His numbers are pretty straight up.

Neither of you guys potted. It's very likely my damage was close to Requital's because I potted twice. These buffs are likely what allowed me to overcome the majority of the DPS lost by the Goo.

Now, if your guild has no intention of pursuing LK on heroic, then the rest of the content is easy peasy and you have no real reason to care. However, if you are going after him sometime during this expansion, you probably shouldn't take the other encounters as lightly. Slacking on the other encounters creates a trend of apathy that is very difficult to break.

ICC can become very boring unless you are focused and interested. Try to find ways to get more out of your time inside the instance. Competitions, goals, or WoL top scores for yourself and other guild members. This is something that was recently brought up by some of the members of my guild. None of that is possible when you aren't min/max'ing or the group doesn't care. Top parses require the effort of the entire guild. Festergut kills of 4:47 will never yield a ranking. Motivate your self and others will likely take notice.

I am certainly not the best pally out there, nor will I ever claim to be amongst the best. On the flip side, you better believe that I am going to do my part to drop that boss ASAP and put out the max damage I can. Overall, it makes for a more enjoyable and faster raid night. You'd be surprised to see how other raider's playstyles improve when they start to care. Give them, and yourself, a reason.

EDIT: Adamson, I used your parse and not the one from your buddy who covered for ya. That parse was better than the one from the week prior which showed you eating 4 full Goo's.

[Requital]

I can't disagree with you at all there is no real call for me to pot until I have a Shadowmourne. At this current time I pot if the pot is needed to score a kill otherwise there is no reason. It's not longer going to overcome the fight like it did at 5/10/15% and there is no possible way I can catch Shadowmourne numbers without it.

I think next to Bluedeep and maybe Nichts I was one of the highest DPS Rets up until 15% I was top 5 on nearly every fight. Nichts and myself went back and forth and Bluedeep was generally ahead of of both there were a few others that got in there at times sure but I'm talking about average.

My name is no where to be found and to set a personal goal you have to set it for something you can achieve. I use to minmax down to the .1 DPS gain because I like to strive to be the best at something but without Shadowmourne it's an unrealistic goal which is another reason I truly hate that axe very few of the people on the top 20 DPS record for Rets are recognized names that were seen throughout Ulduar and ToGC.

I'll get back to min maxing when I can compete on a level playing field currently it's not there so I care far less now then I have before.

Now the more important question here is why are you guys getting goo'd?

[Adamson]

You make a very good point. I can say I certainly have made a conscious move at being careless on farm content. I like your advice and you can expect me to heed it. I would hope if I could find an original parse from our first downing that I was more cautious. But it's easy to get lazy on stuff we one shot every week.

Edit: Thank you. I look forward to utilizing my dusty Strength food and speed pots. I accept your challenge and look forward to sending you a personal message with a refreshed world of logs report probably tonight or on Wednesday. It will probably be inaccurate this week, we're doing a lot of normal modes to knock out our 25-man drakes this week.

Edit2: The "min/max" that I could possibly be missing is what rawr shows to be an overall 2dps. I feel very strongly that it is either innaccurate, far fetched, or otherwise. I believe making a conscious effort to do better in terms of movement and consumables will do volumes greater than dropping 10 strength for 10 crit and 6 agility in a socket or two.

[Prentice]

You make a very good point. I can say I certainly have made a conscious move at being careless on farm content. I like your advice and you can expect me to heed it. I would hope if I could find an original parse from our first downing that I was more cautious. But it's easy to get lazy on stuff we one shot every week.

Edit: Thank you. I look forward to utilizing my dusty Strength food and speed pots. I accept your challenge and look forward to sending you a personal message with a refreshed world of logs report probably tonight or on Wednesday. It will probably be inaccurate this week, we're doing a lot of normal modes to knock out our 25-man drakes this week.

Indeed it is. That is one of the problems with the end of an expansion. Players become apathetic and that leads to two possible outcomes. They end up quitting the game because they are bored or they fall into a trend of playing shitty on the next progression encounter. In many cases, the endless bashing of heads against the LK HM25 wall has caused this. Once this attitude sets in, there is no buff that will overcome it. Not until LK's HP is cut to 20M from 103M will people be able to defeat him because they just don't care anymore.

Step it up, kids. Apathetic raiders make me wanna kick kittens across the room.

Edit2: I believe making a conscious effort to do better in terms of movement and consumables will do volumes greater than dropping 10 strength for 10 crit and 6 agility in a socket or two.

You're absolutely correct. Gear doesn't make the player. It simply makes the player deal a bit more damage. I talk to less progressed rets on my server often, and I am constantly surprised by the damage they are capable of. The biggest difference between us and them is that they care. They care more than we have at any point in this expansion. They are reading about everything, they are watching the videos and they are going that extra mile in every aspect of preparation. If it weren't for the separation of 251 gear vs 277/284 gear, they would be stomping our asses in DPS simply because they care.

I have had countless rets from other servers make lvl 1 toons on mine just to chat with me. As when I chat with any pally, I really enjoy the conversation and ideas that this other player brings. Normally they are so invested into becoming the best of the best even within their own niche. Its pretty arrogant that some of us just sit back and feel so entitled when we really aren't pulling our own weight.