[Music] Metal

[Mechanics]

Venom creating the name does not mean that they are first wave. Explain to me what musical elements are in Venom that are shared with second wave? Explain what musical elements in Mercyful Fate are shared with second wave? What you don't realize, and what Wikipedia is not saying, is that first wave black metal is essentially a crossgenre. It's Black/Thrash.

I'm sorry man, but no matter what wikipedia says, if the band has no MUSICAL relation to black metal, then it is NOT first wave black metal. Venom and Mercyful Fate have no musical relation to black metal. Corpse paint, satanic lyrics, and titles.... that's all they have.

So you are saying that corpse paint, satanic lyrics and titles are not parts of the musical expression in Black Metal? Please enlighten me!

[Kataxu]

So you are saying that corpse paint, satanic lyrics and titles are not parts of the musical expression in Black Metal? Please enlighten me!

Okay. This is very very simple. Words, ideals, and imagery are not MUSIC. Music is sound. Lyrics, corpsepaint, and album names are not sound. If you believe that non-audio related aesthetics influence the SOUND of music, then we have nothing further to discuss, as there's no logic in your argument.

It can be argued that different lyrics will change the sound of the song when sung, depending on several factors on how the song is written, however that's not something that can change the genre of a band's music. The way the lyrics are sung, however, has a much more significant influence.

[Ganoes]

Venom creating the name does not mean that they are first wave. Explain to me what musical elements are in Venom that are shared with second wave? Explain what musical elements in Mercyful Fate are shared with second wave? What you don't realize, and what Wikipedia is not saying, is that first wave black metal is essentially a crossgenre. It's Black/Thrash.

I'm sorry man, but no matter what wikipedia says, if the band has no MUSICAL relation to black metal, then it is NOT first wave black metal. Venom and Mercyful Fate have no musical relation to black metal. Corpse paint, satanic lyrics, and titles.... that's all they have.

Hmmm? Why would it need to have stylistic similarities? The first wave of black metal is often noted as being very different from the second wave. Thought this was common knowledge. Venom and Mercyful Fate are definitely the most important bands of the first wave outside of Bathory.

Try listening to Ihsahn's first solo album The Adversary, which is a mixture of first and second wave black metal. It's pretty good.

[Ganoes]

Okay. This is very very simple. Words, ideals, and imagery are not MUSIC. Music is sound. Lyrics, corpsepaint, and album names are not sound. If you believe that non-audio related aesthetics influence the SOUND of music, then we have nothing further to discuss, as there's no logic in your argument.

It can be argued that different lyrics will change the sound of the song when sung, depending on several factors on how the song is written, however that's not something that can change the genre of a band's music. The way the lyrics are sung, however, has a much more significant influence.

Black metal is often defined more by the subject matter than anything else. I'm really not sure where you are coming from. Have you heard of viking metal? It is named such entirely due to the subject matter. Not due to the actual style, which is frequently melodic death metal (see Amon Amarth).

[Kataxu]

Black metal is often defined more by the subject matter than anything else. I'm really not sure where you are coming from. Have you heard of viking metal? It is named such entirely due to the subject matter. Not due to the actual style, which is frequently melodic death metal (see Amon Amarth).

Black Metal is NOT defined by subject matter. That is stupid, no offense. How many black metal bands out there don't write about anti-christian values and Satanism? There's a TON!! Do you know why they are still called black metal? Because giving out genre names based on lyrical content and theme would cause a lot of confusion and problems. Here's an example of the genres that would be (Or already have been) created:

Nature Black Metal
Eco-Feminist Black Metal
Occult Black Metal
Pedophile Black Metal
Social Angst Black Metal
National Socialist Black Metal
Urban Black Metal
Terrorist Black Metal
Space Black Metal

You get the idea, and I hope it seems ridiculous. Now about Viking Metal, what that is, is a sub-genre of Folk Metal. There are all types of Folk Metal, but Viking Metal in particular is related only to the Scandinavian-area. Bands with Viking Lyrics that do not conform to the style of Scandinavian Folk Metal are not Viking metal (eg: Amon Amarth). Pirate Metal, another ridiculous name, is Folk Metal as well, with piratey vocals and lyrics, and saying "Yarr!" a lot. Running Wild has lyrics about pirates, but they aren't "Pirate Metal", they are speed/heavy/power metal.

[Ganoes]

Heh, you just said Amon Amarth weren't viking metal. This conversation is done, you really don't know what you are talking about. You claim the most famous bands of each subgenre does not belong to that subgenre. How pretentious.

[Kataxu]

Heh, you just said Amon Amarth weren't viking metal. This conversation is done, you really don't know what you are talking about. You claim the most famous bands of each subgenre does not belong to that subgenre. How pretentious.

Let me quote your previous post:

Not due to the actual style, which is frequently melodic death metal (see Amon Amarth).

See what you did there? You just proved most of my argument. Amon Amarth's MUSICAL STYLE (GENRE!) is Melodic Death Metal. Melodic Death Metal with Viking lyrics. I already explained what Viking Metal is... Scandinavian Folk Metal. Amon Amarth is not Folk Metal. If you would get it out of your skull that lyrics make genres, then you'd see the logic.

Amon Amarth = Melodic Death Metal
Viking Metal = Nydvind, Turisas, Yggdrasil, Folkearth, Anerhoth, Nord, etc. A lot have their own artistic license and add stuff like synth and orchestra (like Turisas) but the general idea remains the same. Scandinavian-influenced folk metal.

If you can't see how ridiculous your argument is after my last post about lyrics and genres, then we are done. You are seriously poisoning the genre-pool by you beliefs that the lyrics make the genre, and will cause confusion for more and more and more people, extending the pool unnecessarily, further adding to the confusion and making people think metal is a joke more than they already do after hearing stuff like "Pirate Metal" and "Viking Metal". Hell, once somebody called Lugubrum "Farmer Metal". You'd probably be one of the people to do that, too.

[Qtulu]

First, I'm no genre expert. Second, if Amon Amarth's lyrics are 100% viking themed, shouldn't it contribute to the fact that they are "viking metal"? I mean, it should leave a print in their genre naming to be that viking hardcore. I'm not stating anything, just wondering. And this would probably be the reason people see them as viking metal

[Kataxu]

First, I'm no genre expert. Second, if Amon Amarth's lyrics are 100% viking themed, shouldn't it contribute to the fact that they are "viking metal"? I mean, it should leave a print in their genre naming to be that viking hardcore. I'm not stating anything, just wondering. And this would probably be the reason people see them as viking metal

I know that's why people think they are viking metal, but if I was in a Death Metal band that only sang lyrics about, say.... War, battlefields, soldiers,etc...... I wouldn't want people calling us "War Death Metal", or "War Black Metal" if we were a black metal band. The fact is that genres are created on sound. I wouldn't care if someone called them a viking-themes melodic death metal band, because that's what they are, and frankly if I were in Amon Amarth I'd be rather sick of people calling us Viking Metal, when it's an entirely different genre.

[Hellnas]

Only two persons mentioned At the gates. Shame on all of you!

Well I'll do a namedrop here just to get it said.

At the gates.
Disturbed.
Cathedral
Alestorm
Arch Enemy
The Berzerker
Dimmu Borgir
The Haunted
Machine Head
Meshuggah
Sabaton
Metallicas old albums.
Slayer, also old albums.
And a load of random bands collected on two boxes I bought.

[Kataxu]

Only two persons mentioned At the gates. Shame on all of you!

Well I'll do a namedrop here just to get it said.

At the gates.
Disturbed.
Cathedral
Alestorm
Arch Enemy
The Berzerker
Dimmu Borgir
The Haunted
Machine Head
Meshuggah
Sabaton
Metallicas old albums.
Slayer, also old albums.
And a load of random bands collected on two boxes I bought.

Hell yeah SABATON!! I was listening to them on my way home from work. Such an amazing band. Primo Victoria is god-tier.

[Hellnas]

Hell yeah SABATON!! I was listening to them on my way home from work. Such an amazing band. Primo Victoria is god-tier.

Their latest album; The Art of War isnt too bad either
Ghost Division is godly.

[Lambda]

I wonder if genre experts could help me with identifying the exact genres for the following tracks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKgkGiBYL80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy1XaMvPEKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHy-OVlijsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9HyZn1nko

Thanks in advance.

[Kataxu]

I wonder if genre experts could help me with identifying the exact genres for the following tracks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKgkGiBYL80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy1XaMvPEKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHy-OVlijsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9HyZn1nko

Thanks in advance.

1: I'd say Progressive Power Metal. All the qualities of PM, except a lot more creative ideas and different time signatures.
2: Power Metal again. Some more progressive elements, but not as many as the first song, a more downtuned guitars.
3: Firewind is pretty well-known power metal, with some speed and thrash elements.
4: Power Metal. A little progressive as well, feels a but more improv sometimes. I have had their "Savage Flames" album for a good while now.

It seems you like power metal, or Touhou Metal.

[Deleted]

Avenged Sevenfold (Rip The Rev!) - My friend showed me "A little piece of heaven".. i almost died of the awesomeness

Dream Theater - After I heard Avenged Sevenfold I got into the metalmusic.. found DT and went to their concert last year in Stockholm.. Oh my god..... The sound suddently dissapeared from all instruments in the middle of a song.. so Portnoy went crazy on the drums.. soloing for about 15minutes and entertaining the crowd which was more then pleased!

Breaking Benjamin - Well.. I don't really have a story about these.. My friend who showed me Avenged Sevenfold is the reason why I'm listening to these aswell.

Bullets And Octane - I somehow love the singers voice together with quite good drumming together with nice backup from the guitar makes this a win.

Underoath - Going to see them in a few weeks.. they are epic! Was either these or August Burns Red that would be my fifth place! These guys are great, can't tell you much more about them!

[ohnomelon]

The Devil Wears Prada:
Wapakalypse, HTMLRuleZD00d, Goats on a Boat, Dogs can grow Beards all over.

[usiris]

the faceless?

anyone?

[Yamiphilia]

the faceless?

anyone?

I'm not too crazy about them.

Anyway... there are too many bands to name (and I can't sit here and name the reasons I got into them or else I won't stfu). So I'll just say what I've been listening to in the last week. Mostly a little mix between Queensryche (Operation Mindcrime is a classic), Scar Symmetry (amazing PvP music... where you feel badass even when you die 12 times in a battleground), Kreator (there is always room for thrash... and a Violent Revolution), Vader (a favorite for both my husband and I), a tiny bit of Opeth (when I just want to relax and keyboard turn mindless around Dalaran), and Korpiklaani (my friend had to play Vodka over and over again until I decided to just download their late Karkelo album).

Metal is full of such variety.

[Neverlife]

I got thrown into the world of metal about ~4 years ago, and since then I have been constantly amazed with this HUGE genre.


I started out listening to Power, and Symphonic Metal mostly, coming from listening to rock it was an easy transition.

Firewind - Amazing Greek Power Metal band. Gus G. has amazing chops.

Power Quest- Really cheesy, kind of sounds like Dragonforce...but all the songs DON'T sound the same. Master of Illusion is a pretty great album.

Freedom Call- German (I think). A very 'Flower Happy' Metal kind of thing going on.

Sonata Arctica- Amazing Finnish band, has been my favorite band for close to 3 years now. It never gets old, although I was kind of sad to see them stray from their fast Power Metal roots.

Nightwish- Another Amazing Finnish band, although more Symphonic. I listened to them up until they gave Tarja the boot.

Epica- Dutch Symphonic Metal. One of my favorite bands by far.

Kamelot- A Power metal band from Florida, but they forsake the very high Power Metal vocals for a much more manly sound since they brought in Norwegian singer Roy Khan.

Falconer- Swedish Power Metal, another one of my favorites. Sometimes it's pretty cheesy, but I love it anyway

Then over time I got into a bit heavier stuff (no crazy ass Death Metal though, its just not my style.)

Norther- First band I ever listened to that screamed/growled, whatever you want to call it. Still one of my favorites.

Ensiferum- I got into them because their new vocalist Petri Lindroos is from Norther.

Tyr- No scream/growls but very folk/viking influenced, and a very good listen.

Children of Bodom- I don't know what to say, Alexi is a bad-ass.

Finntroll- Kind of weird (you know it, don't lie) but I like them anyway.

Cannnabis Corpse- Yeah, its a Cannibal Corpse parody band, but I like them more then their name-sake.

Moonspell- A very Gothic band, dark, emotional. Fucking rules.

[Kataxu]

I'm not too crazy about them.

Anyway... there are too many bands to name (and I can't sit here and name the reasons I got into them or else I won't stfu). So I'll just say what I've been listening to in the last week. Mostly a little mix between Queensryche (Operation Mindcrime is a classic), Scar Symmetry (amazing PvP music... where you feel badass even when you die 12 times in a battleground), Kreator (there is always room for thrash... and a Violent Revolution), Vader (a favorite for both my husband and I), a tiny bit of Opeth (when I just want to relax and keyboard turn mindless around Dalaran), and Korpiklaani (my friend had to play Vodka over and over again until I decided to just download their late Karkelo album).

Metal is full of such variety.

Yami?! Heyyeyeyeyey..... you might not remember me but, I was the one you talked to when you were level one checking out Maelstrom! Well, I was one of them. GOod to see you hit the MMOChamps forums