Did DK's fix the problem with lack of tanks?

[kungfumonkey]

One of the main reasons that Blizz gave for the introduction of the Death Knight Hero class was they hoped to address the issue of too few tanks in the game.

Well as we draw to the end of WotLK I was wondering whether you thought they have helped or even made the problem worse.

My personal thoughts are no they havent. The reason there are so few tanks is because of the nature of tanking and not because there are to few classes that can tank. If Blizz wanted to cure the problem of not enough tanks they would need to make massive changes to the whole tanking role... how or what I dont know and to be honest I dont think I would want them to change it anyway as they would prob end up dumbing it down to make it more accessible...

How would you solve the tank problem?

[Albert the fish]

yes and no

it added more tanks certainly. but it also added more dps

and since the DK class is easy to play as a primitive basic level, most people stopped there. kinda like stopping at college math. in the end we got a bunch of mediocre tanks, a handful of good tanks, a good share of mediocre dps, and a bunch of good dps.

so in the end it added overall, but not a significant amount in proportion.

tanking wont get better. people need to like it, and it's enough like dpsing now that it's fairly obvious that there isn't any sort of fix to make. people like topping meters instead of being important. it's the way it is.

[jai151]

The problem with tanking is not one that Blizzard can fix. It's 100% the community's fault.

To tank requires two things, skill and gear. Through dungeons and heroics, you gain both. However, the community demands that the tank overgear the instance, generally by 2 or even three tiers. This leaves either tanks who are so overgeared they never learn how to tank, generally tanks who gear up by DPSing or Healing and snag tank drops where they can, or people who honestly want to tank but find themselves abandoned or kicked by groups who are unwilling to run with someone of the correct gear level. Neither one of those helps the tank pool.

[SharpCookie]

Im sure its nearbly impossible to solve the problem, ppl just like to top dps since its easy and this is game so, most ppl might relax and dont want something important to do, example. tank.

/agree with albert

[Kalico]

If anything, I would say DKs made the things worse.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe this class is just like any other. When spec'd and geared accordingly they are just as amazing tanks as any other, with their ups and downs just like any other class.

The whole issue came when they decided to add Hero Class to the death knight's description. A lot of people automatically decided to roll one thinking that this alone would make them win regardless of what they did. The result? I've still landed in pugs with death knights who are dripping in plate... with block rating.


Blizzard has given the tools to make tanking more appealing, but at the end of the day its up to the community to help improve the tank shortage. I've rolled into instances where the tank is geared just enough to run it, then the poor thing gets paired up with the fully ICC heroic decked out dps that will go crazy before the tank has even hit the mob. Not able to wait at least five seconds for the tank to grab aggro, the dps immediately blames the tank for his fail.

[Shiira]

The problem is caused by hybrids who only dps, adding another hybrid solved nothing. If blizzard want to shorten queues the way to do it is encourage more people to embrace their hybridity and queue as a tank for once, or just let people do heroics with one tank, one healer and four dps.

[Propain]

The issue has never been the shortage of classes that can tank...it's the shortage of players who want/like tanking.

[fishface]

I can't say that DK's fixed the tanking issue but I found that tanks have become a lot more prolific since WotLKs release. Likely because they made tanking a little less strenuous with the buffs to AE threat.

Can't remember the last time I had to taunt an add off a healer.

Also guys it's not a class issue it's a player/playstyle issue.

[Panjandrum]

The problem is that a bad tank ruins the game for some people, so it's difficult to either gear up or learn properly. DKs are just lolclasses for most of the players anyway, and a DK tank is quite often even more fail.

It took me three attempts yesterday to get into a group who would accept that I was learning to tank, and that was at level 18 in low-level instances like WC or Deadmines. I almost gave up before finding a group who would let me at least try to get it right without Consecrate.

I daren't even TRY on my DK until I've mastered it on a paladin.

If you're levelling an alt, give the tank a break, please, we all have to learn some time, and preferably long before level 80.

[smokeydown]

Maybe a little bit, butI mostly see dps DK's. I think dual spec helped the most along with also making Pallys and Druids main tanks instead of the AoE tank or off tank.

[Endus]

I think the biggest issue is the scaling need for tanks. In 5-mans, you need 1 for every 5 people. In 25-mans, you need 2, maybe 3, so the 5 tanks you got for that 25 people, you've got a couple sitting out or DPSing.

Which leads to people picking a raiding spec and preferring to play that, meaning there's less tanks available for the population in 5-mans.

[Nirual]

The problem is that a bad tank ruins the game for some people, so it's difficult to either gear up or learn properly.

This. Before the finder, you didnt really even get an easy way to try tanking. As a dps you can pretty much just continue doing what you already did all the time (minus misunderstanding some abilities) while questing, and you get the gear for the job pretty easily (though WotLK did a good job at giving out tanking quest rewards aswell).

Elements like the def-cap and the game being pretty vague about threat mechanics make tanking more daunting to pick up than healing or dpsing, and to boot other partymembers might blame you when it's actually their fault.
I decided to give frost tanking a shot a while ago so I leveled my dk, learned how to play him and learned how to tank heroics. I'd like to think I did a pretty decent job considering the circumstances, but after a while I realized I wasn't really enjoying it despite that. Tanking's not for everyone, I guess.

Finally, the finder seemed like it added some incentive to pick up tanking (much shorter queues) but that's evidently not convincing enough either. Doesn't help that there are four classes that can't tank or heal at all.

[mcgenius99]

nope and they made every class that could tank just as good of dps as pures and so besides long que times alot less responsibilty

a thought wouldn't it be neat to have a hunters beast mastery spec be a tank spec having the hunters pet tank for the groups in actual raids

[agelos]

If anything, I would say DKs made the things worse.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe this class is just like any other. When spec'd and geared accordingly they are just as amazing tanks as any other, with their ups and downs just like any other class.

The whole issue came when they decided to add Hero Class to the death knight's description. A lot of people automatically decided to roll one thinking that this alone would make them win regardless of what they did. The result? I've still landed in pugs with death knights who are dripping in plate... with block rating.


Blizzard has given the tools to make tanking more appealing, but at the end of the day its up to the community to help improve the tank shortage. I've rolled into instances where the tank is geared just enough to run it, then the poor thing gets paired up with the fully ICC heroic decked out dps that will go crazy before the tank has even hit the mob. Not able to wait at least five seconds for the tank to grab aggro, the dps immediately blames the tank for his fail.

This is the part that is annoying me most of all. People cant see through the damn class they just see the player who controls the class. Have you never met a bad paladin?mage?hunter?druid?warrior....etc.

On topic: i doubt they will ever fix the problem with the tanks. We just have to face that we cant have so many tanks since only few tanks are needed. Like in 25 man raids only three out of 25 people need to be tanks. So i really dont see the problem over here

[Elektrik]

Here's the deal. If people want to tank, they will tank. If people don't want to tank, they won't tank. It doesn't matter what class they're playing. On the other hand, I actually queue my DK to tank now that I have to wait 1 second for a heroic instead of 20 minutes.

I think it really comes down to the fact that if you're tanking, you actually need to pay attention. You can't be that 700 dps mage in full t9 gear and expect to successfully tank a heroic. Most people would rather be that mage than the tank, who actually needs to pay attention. Also, you need to be *somewhat* decent to successfully tank. I'm not saying it's hard by any stretch, but that mage would probably have a hard time holding threat if he switched to a tank class, considering he can't even manage 800 dps when his frost bolt alone will give him 2k.

[Vashdakari]

Maybe a little bit, butI mostly see dps DK's. I think dual spec helped the most along with also making Pallys and Druids main tanks instead of the AoE tank or off tank.

I agree.

Dual spec seemed to solve the problem more than anything else. As to making Pallys and Druids MT capable, that really never had any bearing on 5 man content, and i don't really think the "Tanking Problem" revolved around raiding guilds having a problem finding at least 3 capable tanks. They were always amazing 5 man tanks, and coming from a guild that had Druid/Pally OT's that could just as easily MT most fights, i think the biggest help to them was the removal of crushing blows and gimmicks like <a href=http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=41032>Shear</a>. Granted, the ability to move beyond 5 mans and into raiding must surely be an incentive to all the Druids and Paladins who thought they couldn't before.

As usual, the biggest problem with tanking is the perception of the community. Like others have mentioned, many feel the tank needs to out gear the instance before they're even allowed inside the place. This prevents new tanks from learning how to tank, and also drives others away because they don't want to deal with the crap that comes from every Tom, Dick, and Harry DPS who'll want a different tank, even though their gear is just as bad or worse, than the tank they're mocking.

The Toughness skill within most tank builds doesn't necessarily have to do with the Avatar on the screen, it also has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the keyboard. Unfortunately, it's not something that people can click on and off while playing a game, and if you've just spent your entire work day waiting to escape into the game to relax, tanking may not be the best escape route. The amount of grief people can give a tank is amazing. Then again, like i've told many people before; "Good tanks, never have bad runs."

But how can we foster more tanks if we aren't willing to allow new tanks to become better? Every time a guildy would cry to me to come and finish tanking their instance for them, "The tank sucks!" I'd tell them to toughen up and help the guy out. Anyone who is willing to tank is worth the time to teach tanking. Having countless alts that have seen the amazing, "all talent points in the Prot tree, cause its the tank tree" and have dealt with "bad" tanks, i can tell you there are people willing to learn. Anyone willing to take the time to politely explain why 5 points in deflection might be a good idea, will probably find a receptive learner who is willing to listen more. Opening up with, "OMG ur such a noob an' suck" is going to just make a bitter tank, who will never learn anything, until they give up and only queue as DPS again.