~ POLL ~ "Giant Pulls in Heroics" Good or Bad?

[Deleted]

I don't know if it's 'good or bad' but I love big pulls, be it as a tank, healer or dps. One of the main reasons I finally got my paladin to 80 was to be able to solo old content and do reeeeeally big pulls while doing it.. it's awesome! And as a healer it puts more pressure on you to keep the group up, which to me is great fun

[Bigdunka]

I always start slow, because I have no idea what the other members of the party are capable of. Just examining them doesn't tell you jack, same with that GS bull. If the healer starts dancing, yawning, or even DPSing because they aren't doing anything, then I know they are fully capable of handling a lot more than I'm doing and I'll pull more, as long as the DPS isn't horrible. You can only go at the pace that the entire group can survive at as a whole. Not enough heals and people die. Not enough DPS and the healer has to overwork and people die.

The only drawback is when the healer appears to be struggling and I go slow, and you have that over anxious DPS (no offense to rogues, but it usually is the rogue) who goes ahead and pulls the next few groups, only to die a horrible gruesome death and then blame myself and the healer for not "doing our jobs". And yes, I'll taunt off that random DPS the first time, and then tell them if they do it again, they tank them. I won't lose a wink of sleep over it if they die.

[KandyCane]

When I go on my priest, the big pulls are generally very bad. Either the tank doesn't know what s/he's pulling, or s/he is far from geared to handle the damage.

However, if the tank knows what s/he's doing, then it can be quite good. On my Paladin I pull as many packs together without delaying the initial pull, and assuming the mobs don't have some nasty AoE abilities or other things that can hit the rest of the group. At the same time I'm packing a ton of block, so the damage is minimal even when pulling a ton of stuff(also managing cooldowns for some of the nastier pulls).

I voted 'bad', because I rarely see other tanks capable of actually pulling it off, and it can very easily lead to a wipe or at least several deaths if it goes wrong.

[Panoramixe]

It really depends who's doing the pulling.

Scenario 1: The death knight (of course this is the bad example, it's a death knight)
Wants to pull the entire room before trolgore but doesn't use any threat abilities and blames the healer that he doesn't have aggro.
1 DND in the hallway and pull with death coil/death grip and he wouldn't have been a total loser.

Scenario 2: The paladin (of course the good example)
He warns the healer he's going to mount pull the 3 groups + 2 patrolling mobs in DTK (after the big dino). Pulls them all and makes sure to be near the healer when he uses consecration and his aoe undead stun. Keeps perfect aggro and uses cooldowns.

I don't have an issue with giant pulls, I have an issue with giant pulls done by complete morons.

[DaLeetPawner]

Its good. The first thing I ask is if the tank is able to maintain aggro on chain pulls with huge packs. If the answer is yes, I tell em to go ahead. It makes healing a heroic.... more fun (I barely have to heal on standard HCs, which sucks)

[Aliceinhell]

Chain pulls yes.

Giant pulls? Well that depends.... If it's a pug group you'll usually get one dumbass DPS who doesnt wait to Dps >.<

[Geekzilla]

Didn't vote, no straightforward answer.

If the group is up for it, sure, it can be a blast. If the group isn't quite geared for it or lacks a bit in skill or awareness, or some combination of the three issues, then no.

I was in a group that was doing decent sized pulls, and we were having fun. One of the DPSers face-pulled another group while the tank was rounding up other groups in the opposite direction, and while we didn't wipe, the DPSer that saved the healer when the original face-puller vanished died. No problem, what's one death? I start rezzing him, and by the time I'm done casting the rez, haven't even started buffing/healing the poor guy, the tank is already out of healing range AND at 1K health. I don't know if he expected a non-druid to rez someone as fast as rebirth or if he really thought he could do the big pulls with no heals and short a DPS, or if he expected me to just leave him dead, but we definitely weren't on the same page. Funny part was it was Mr. "I don't vanish till someone else has threat on the mobs" face puller that was most upset by the wipe.

[Sunshine]

I have to agree with some of the sentiment here -- chain pulls are fantastic; giant pulls are questionable. Pulling 3 small groups that happen to be right next to each other (e.g., some of the ones in UK)? That works. Trying to pull the same number of mobs that are more spread out and have casters in them? That's asking for fail, especially when all the dps go full out on different mobs.

Big pull when it's convenient to do so; chain pull always until someone needs mana.

[Lucifersam]

Yeah there is no point in pulling excessively large groups.. causes opportunities for stuff to go wrong very quickly, and is also slower than chain pulling. Pull a pack, get ~10k threat ahead of dps on the mobs, pull the next one. If someone overcomes that 10k threat the mob is going to be almost dead. The reason gigantic pulls will be slower is that one of two things happens A. the dps must sit there while you gather them all up or B. The dps will start nuking something or mass AoEing causing mayhem... a clusterfuck in the parlance of our times :P
Also I think the threat that annoying mob abilities like fears and stuns poses to your group of 5 does not increase linearly (i.e. 2x more dangerous for 2 such mobs) but exponentially with each mob of that type.

[Wolfhunter]

This poll's nonsense. There isnt good or bad big pulls. Its just a matter of whether the tank can hold multi mob agro well and if the healer can keep the tank up the whole time.

If yes, then yeah, big pulls, aoe every thing down.

If no, then obviously smaller pulls then.

[MrPistachio]

I never did 'giant' pulls, I just always typically did very fast pulls, and would keep moving after pulling a single group as most of those mobs would hopefully and most likely be down by the time there's too many mobs to DPS down. And by fast pulling, I mean my record and average times for my H-UK randoms were 8 minutes 32 sec, and about 9.30 respectively.

[Memory]

While I do think that big pulls make it generally faster, I do agree that most tanks do not know how to make proper big pulls, and most DPS don't know how to maximize their DPS on such circumstances. So it can either be good or bad, it depends on the group.

[klaps_05]

good, case closed, pls dont use your brain to interpret just enjoy the run

[mynameisjona]

I voted yes but really want a situational button.

In most heroics I never really have to heal and can just jump around hitting wild growth on CD (and even that's overheal) and keep rejuv up. So if healing is absolutely no problem like it usually is I really don't mind it unless the tank is acting really stupid. If it is a guildie I can almost always keep them up through any encounter without any problems so multi pulling really doesn't matter to me.

[MushroomBomb]

I have to agree with some of the sentiment here -- chain pulls are fantastic; giant pulls are questionable. Pulling 3 small groups that happen to be right next to each other (e.g., some of the ones in UK)? That works. Trying to pull the same number of mobs that are more spread out and have casters in them? That's asking for fail, especially when all the dps go full out on different mobs.

Big pull when it's convenient to do so; chain pull always until someone needs mana.

I'll have to go with the shebear here. Some rooms can be pulled all in one. But quite a lot of them shouldn't be. Chainpulling is generally just as fast, less stressful (although not always for the tank) and less risky.

So I voted no. Would've liked to see a 'neither is perfect' vote.

[Raptorg]

It's bad, sure, I chain pull and often pull multiple groups.. Because that's what the others expect.

But I vastly prefer the more careful planning in older instances with CC and communication..
Right now if I say sheep cross, fear(yes, fear!) diamond and sap circle.. Well, needless to say, it's going turn out into an argument because it's not necessary..

I really want it back this way, heroics felt epic because of it, and I liked it that way.

[Darkskeleton]

Bad if the tank decides he's badass and just pulls 12 mobs because he feels like it. Good if the group can handle it and everyone agrees.

[yomyom]

Big pulls are fine if you have the gear to take them (not hard), know which pulls you shouldn't do big (ie where the stuns are, fearing mobs, ect), you can keep ALL agro, and the dps is good enough to kill them.

Big pulls with shit or dumb DPS makes things take much much longer.

[Zidius]

Giant pulls = great fun....love having a tank who is so geared he says "Okay guys just give me a sec to pull these first to rooms when i lay down consecrate/T-clap/Swipe AoE away, nothing more refreshing than seeing all that dmg pop up from your AoE or seeing that you could heal through such a pull

Right now if I say sheep cross, fear(yes, fear!) diamond and sap circle.. Well, needless to say, it's going turn out into an argument because it's not necessary..

Oh boy i know that one, I did a PoS the other day on my priest where the tank said SHackled {Cross} i did a double-take and realized omg i get to CC again (being a rogue in the TBC days) *fap* 2 of our DPS did not seem to realise that when My SOlacestones says "Do not attack %t" it meant do not attack and damn near wiped us because i had to reshackled 4 times while the mob was able to get an attack off on the squishies healer included happys days though blizz has been saying that they will be trying to bring CC back into raiding ;D lets hope for the best

[Sysunia]

If everybody in the group or at least the tank healer and one dps outgear the instance by far it cam make it faster. But tbh most dungeons now go faster than the 15 min lfg CD so is there realy any point in pushing them more? Also there are some mobs that stun/fear and gearscore wont change that. If the tank is tanking like 10-15 mobs and sudenly drops aggro its a wipe. Another thing is that with those realy big pulls it often takes longer to get all those mobs together than it takes to kill them.