Rage Normalization in Cataclysm

[Valandill]

No, they're not! Execute consume all of your remaining rage, plus it is not usable on enemies what have more than 20% of their health. New HS will use at least 10 point of rage, but no more than 30 and usable anytime you've got enough rage. There is a difference. Read it again.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47471

Execute only consumes a MAX of 30 rage. Only difference is it starts at 15 rage, not 10 like the new HS.

[jimlow]

how is this going to effect warriors with TG that have 2 really slow weapons? Also isn't this going to make arms warriors feel realllly bursty with up to 4 instant attacks + bleed effects + 1.5 sec slam time?

[Gurggy]

No, they're not! Execute consume all of your remaining rage, plus it is not usable on enemies what have more than 20% of their health. New HS will use at least 10 point of rage, but no more than 30 and usable anytime you've got enough rage. There is a difference. Read it again.

Ummm... is this sarcasm?
Execute

With improved execute, . . . . lessee. . . costs 10 rage, uses up to 30 rage. .. . .

So the issue is, how is the new HS different than just making execute usable at any time? I don't think the mechanics are really that different, especially if you've played an Arms warrior recently and had the Sudden Death Talent.

In fact, without modification, HS would actually be preferable to execute, since it could be used during the entire fight without a proc chance.

But certainly the 10 rage minimum and 30 rage maximum is pretty much identical.

[Warriorfury]

Dear god this is amazing! I know what I'll be leveling for Cataclysm

[Nate1493]

This doesn't sound like more rage control... This sounds like Blizzard is giving all warriors a set amount of rage based on nothing but the fact you swing.

Also, unless Blizzard greatly changes warriors, specifically fury warriors, there isn't a time to use HS or Cleave. On top of that, we will have been greatly reduced in our ability to damage multiple targets. This sounds like a very poor idea.

Imagine this situation... Every main hand swing you generate 25 rage, every offhand swing you generate 12.5 rage. You receive this amount of rage every 3 seconds. There is a high chance any swing can, and will, miss. Not being able to change main hand swings to "yellow" attacks effectively turns them from 0% miss to 17% miss (give or take). So, unless blizzard is planing on implementing some change in Titan's grip and hit reduction, I think removing HS has a much further reaching negative then blizzard is willing to admit.

Simply not "liking" the fact that warriors appear to have no issue with rage is simply because we have adjusted to the system and created our gear to give us no rage issues. This is very similar to healers or mana DPS classes. They have attuned their gear so they do NOT have mana issues! And this is a problem because? Well apparently we are supposed to have headaches with mana and rage.

[Verdeooze]

TANK POV:
/delete Devastate, revenge, Shield With HS Spam MACROS
:-[

[aloís]

Chqnge sounds interessting, especially the shouts will be nice for them to finally hqve a useage: P. And fi ally haste won't b akward to hqve haha
L

[rat]

No, they're not! Execute consume all of your remaining rage, plus it is not usable on enemies what have more than 20% of their health. New HS will use at least 10 point of rage, but no more than 30 and usable anytime you've got enough rage. There is a difference. Read it again.

Execute only uses a maximum of 30 rage, much like the new HS. You haven't played your warrior since, like, vanilla, haven't you?

[Gurggy]

Pinch me, am I dreaming?

I like this too, provided that they don't add cooldowns to Demoralizing shout.

I don't care so much when I'm dps, but since we don't have any good ticking AoE that we can use for area aggro, I sometimes use Demo Shout while running through packs and wait to use TC/Shockwave until I've got the group rounded up. I'd hate to see my ability to do that taken away because they wanted to impose a 20 second cooldown on it so it worked like horn of winter.

[Elanale]

Nate.... this isn't the only change. Blizzard's about a mile ahead of you. That's not to say this thing is guaranteed to work flawlessly, but they already know that. You can't honestly believe that they hadn't thought of it, can you? I mean, really? They have over a hundred employees for WoW alone, do you honestly think that you in the course of an hour thought up concerns that they didn't consider in the months they were secretly working on this change?

[Malediction]

Actually looks like a reasonable solution to fixing the rage problem however I still don't know why they feel like they need to make it scale again, isn't that sort of defeating the purpose of the change in the first place?

Also help a bro out! http://social.bioware.com/brc/457891

[Gurggy]

This doesn't sound like more rage control... This sounds like Blizzard is giving all warriors a set amount of rage based on nothing but the fact you swing.

Also, unless Blizzard greatly changes warriors, specifically fury warriors, there isn't a time to use HS or Cleave. On top of that, we will have been greatly reduced in our ability to damage multiple targets. This sounds like a very poor idea.

Imagine this situation... Every main hand swing you generate 25 rage, every offhand swing you generate 12.5 rage. You receive this amount of rage every 3 seconds. There is a high chance any swing can, and will, miss. Not being able to change main hand swings to "yellow" attacks effectively turns them from 0% miss to 17% miss (give or take). So, unless blizzard is planing on implementing some change in Titan's grip and hit reduction, I think removing HS has a much further reaching negative then blizzard is willing to admit.

Don't forget the one other implementation, that the amount of rage doubles if you crit.

However, your other point is very valid. The current system that changes white to yellow reducing from a 17% miss chance to a certain hit (with enough hit rating) is certainly something we will lose out on. Of course, right now when we do that, we also don't get any rage back from those hits.

I still like the concept because they can actually adjust the levels in beta depending on whether we're seeing ourselves becoming rage starved or whatever, but I do think that they'll have to do something to prevent every Fury warrior losing about 1-2K dps right off the bat to accommodate for not having this "secondary" global timer mechanic we're used to. To be fair, I'm willing to take the hit as long as it doesn't stay at the point that I was at before I geared up, where I was pulling so little dps that I had to beg just to get in the raids. Especially with the stiff enrages Blizz is loving so much these days that require 6.5K dps on average in 25's.

[cerbdog]

Will be nice to see some changes with my warrior. The new HS does sound like Execute's rage mechanic. Of course, "who cares?" pops into my mind when I read the complaints about that. They may make a lot of skills like that in the end. You'll get used to it, so no point in whining.

[Thunderlight]

I find this change very interesting. It will feel fresh to play a warrior in cataclysm, which is awesome. To all the people critisizing the new rage system, i say, wait till the beta because blizzard is changing alot of abilities so Execute =/= Heroic Strike

[Throrion]

This sounds pretty interesting. I love the shouts change. I wonder what they're doing to Execute though, because the new Heroic Strike sounds completely similar to how Execute currently works.

[Thunderlight]

So Warriors gonna spam heroic strike and it deals dmg instantly???


LOL it sounds somewhat op!!!!


infinite rage?

OP again!

So briefly warriors gonna spam heroic strike and improved execute all the time since
they no longer have rage problems?

nice idea to balance the rage managment indeed!

/facepalm.

It's like mages can spam instant frostbolts all the time and they never go oom.Brilliant idea !!!4

I think you didn't read the post very well. Anyways, blizzard has surely putten alot of tought into this new system, so: No, warriors won't be gods, and no they won't have infinite rage.

[Elanale]

So Warriors gonna spam heroic strike and it deals dmg instantly???


LOL it sounds somewhat op!!!!


infinite rage?

OP again!

So briefly warriors gonna spam heroic strike and improved execute all the time since
they no longer have rage problems?

nice idea to balance the rage managment indeed!

/facepalm.

It's like mages can spam instant frostbolts all the time and they never go oom.Brilliant idea !!!4

Functionally illiterate. Your post gets seven stamps with my FAIL stamp. Go back and try reading again.

[Nate1493]

Nate.... this isn't the only change. Blizzard's about a mile ahead of you. That's not to say this thing is guaranteed to work flawlessly, but they already know that. You can't honestly believe that they hadn't thought of it, can you? I mean, really? They have over a hundred employees for WoW alone, do you honestly think that you in the course of an hour thought up concerns that they didn't consider in the months they were secretly working on this change?

So you are saying they are planning a COMPLETE reworking of how Fury Warriors operate? This sounds like something MUCH different than advertised then. If this is the case, then it is way more than just rage management they are talking about. They did NOT discuss this yet, and if this is what they are thinking, then they need to talk about it.

If they plan on greatly altering the way main hand swings will land, we are talking about a 20%~ loss in damage. BT-WW-(1 sec delay)-BT-Free-Free is fairly typical rotation Fury rotation. The way swings would line up would be with each of the attacks so (Swing-BT-Swing-WW-Swing-BT-Swing-Swing-Free-Swing-Free. All this change is looking like is filling the Free swings with this new "HS" which looks exactly like Execute.

Unless this new Heroic Strike/Cleave operates separately from the typical GCD, or the GCD is greatly reduced, you might as well throw away most of the other useful tools a fury warrior can do. No more place to add sunder, shout, or demo shout. No more chances for stance dances. You either totally break your rotation and have far too much rage, or you simply don't cast HS for one of your new moves.

I'm very leery of these changes, trying to insert more necessary GCDs into a class that already is GCD starved is just asking for huge problems. On top of the potentially huge DPS loss from changing main hand swings to white swings.

[mochaomhog]

This does look like a good way of implementing this, but as a druid i will have to retrain my hand - i'm so used to tapping my 'Z' button (maul) with my thumb, constantly, while i use other buttons, that i find myself accidently doing it on my pally tank as well :P

Also, it will be odd to see 'Melee' on my damage done reports.

my bear uses a macro "/cast !maul; /cast mangle" and 2 more for lacerate and swipe... no more mashing maul for me. It odes have a downside, in heroics I will go rage starved fast on single pull trash, or even small groups, as maul is going off all the time.

[Malthurius]

When blizz says they are going to change one thing, people always seem to cry out that it will break the game in some way (Some have more sense however) the thing is, they probably have more things other than just this planned for the warrior class to balance this change out with their existing abilities.