Druid - Cataclysm Preview Compilation

[Jonkheer]

i like the eclipse change. new moonkin form in 4.1 is shit tho

[Syan]

I don't understand the whine about the ToL changes, I've been looking forward to this ever since they were toying with the suggestion in a blue post some time ago.
Tree of life as it is is just like being in normal caster form with some extra sp and 6% healing aura, the only time it had real character was when it gave +healing received to members of your group that scaled with spirit, with movement speed reduction at least that was interesting.

But now, the changes they give us everything we get in tree of life form, but in caster form - and then a cooldown we can pop for a huge buff/style change on top.
Even if you never use the new ToL cd you still have everything you had before and MORE, because you can cast roots/cyclone dps spells.

Granted it doesn't happen too often, but there are times say on something like Blood Princes where one of the kenetic orb people just cant make it in time, saving the day with a few wraths feels worthwhile, and would be even better if you didnt have to shift out and waste gcd's/mana to do it, this is especially true on something like the 10m hardmode version of the fight where you have limited people and they cant afford to move around so much.

New ToL is a massive buff to resto in general and comes at the cost of ONE GCD - even in spamfests like Lanit'hel you dont cast every single gcd into healing spells for the whole damned fight, and even if you can, the single gcd to make everything stronger that ToL brings would offset the usage.

For those of you that say that a big healing boost is disruptive and unnecessary? Every raid since blackwing lair has had moments of extreme incoming damage, huge incresed AoE damage phases in particular which us resto druids have had the best tools to pick up since the inclusion of wild growth, recently = saurfang soft enrage, lana'thel bloodbolt whirl, LK edge phase transitions etc.

Where these phases can at the moment be really overwhelming on current healers, having a huge fat powerful metamorph tree of life hopefully could potentially top up an entire raid itself, depending on how big the buff to the hots (assuming they go for the tree=hots primary approach again) and save the whole thing or close too it, it'll be an especially powerful tool on 10's/hm's no doubt.

I would kill for this flexibility, even at the loss of my beloved tree graphic, wonderful /cry and /laugh, and silly /dance.
(hope they have that minor glyph in!)

-some of you people should stop being so pessimistic and look forward to the biggest positive change to the class since the end of vanilla!

[Alianthos]

Firstly, there are no Hardmodes in Icecrown Citadel, you as a endgame player should obviously know that.

I lol'ed ;D

[Jamara]

they better give us the glyph to play a tree 24/7, thats one of the reasons i choosed druid as my healing class, druid is known for their forms, if you remove them you get some crappy normal stuff let us be different.
as for the eclipse mastery, it better be good, if it is worse than what we have my druid will end up as bear and cat

[Logicknot]

Well I am glad they are getting rid of the tree of life form. I liked the druid healer in classic wow just because you got to see what their gear looked like.

[GrodinLB]

As a boomkin, I'm skeptical about this 'slider' type mechanism for eclipse. The theorycrafters are gonna have a field day with this one.

[Deleted]

Mechanically, it feels unfair for a druid to have to give up so much offense and utility in order to be just as good at healing as the other classes who are not asked to make that trade

Regardless of my opinion of this change to how the Tree of Life form functions this is a retarded rationale. It feels unfair? Well lets look at other Druid specc....is it also unfair that Moonkins cant heal but can only cast offensive spells while in Moonkin form? Or what about feral druids? This argument is just fail.

Tree form is fine and removing it will make it unfair for other druids speccs. If resto Druids can now heal and cast offensive spells why not remove Moonkin form so they can also heal and cast offensive spells...or make Bears and Cats casting occasional healing spell? Plus how will resto Druid going to gain anything from this in PVE content? As I can see it can be useful only for PVP and then we go back to creating new unfairaness for other druid speccs. Just keep the passive Tree Form and update the form....thats the charm of playing a Druid. If you dont like it reroll something else.

[Azyoulike]

Regardless of my opinion of this change to how the Tree of Life form functions this is a retarded rationale. It feels unfair? Well lets look at other Druid specc....is it also unfair that Moonkins cant heal but can only cast offensive spells while in Moonkin form? Or what about feral druids? This argument is just fail.

They've said it again and again, being able to do some limited dps is baseline. Why do you think tank threat abilities do damage? They could make all tank threat abilities variants on growl/roar/shout/mock/taunt, and leave them doing 0 dps. They don't, they want tanks to do some dps, but less than a dps spec. Likewise healers are supposed to be able to do some dps, but not as much as a dps spec.

Most can, druids can't - it's an obvious aberration.

[Deleted]

They've said it again and again, being able to do some limited dps is baseline. Why do you think tank threat abilities do damage? They could make all tank threat abilities variants on growl/roar/shout/mock/taunt, and leave them doing 0 dps. They don't, they want tanks to do some dps, but less than a dps spec. Likewise healers are supposed to be able to do some dps, but not as much as a dps spec.

Most can, druids can't - it's an obvious aberration.

Healers dont do DPS in raids...period. Even if they had the time any healer who starts dpsing will fail as they can't spend their precious mana in a raid content fight. Its simple as that. Comparison with tanking is thus flawed. Healer's role is to keep other members alive not to create threat or finish up the mobs/boss. And no one can tell me this is not purely PvP boost and one that will put other Druid speccs in an unfair position....since Moonkins and Ferals can't heal in their forms. So what exactly is the point here?

And also reading the Ghostcrawler's comments where he says they dont actually feel Tree Form does anything or makes you a better/equal healer to a Priest or a holy Paladin, then why not make the Tree Form makes you as such? Current Tree Form with removed movement penalties, etc is on the right track so with a bit buffing and mechanic changing it can be just that. Yet they choose to simply remove it....and the comment that they changed their opinion that the very essence of Druids are forms is just not sticking up there. As a Feral or someone else playing a Moonkin I just feel this will be unfair...as I said this will be purely PvP buff...enourmous one at that.

[jr06]

Healers dont do DPS in raids...period. Even if they had the time any healer who starts dpsing will fail as they can't spend their precious mana in a raid content fight. Its simple as that.

Should probably watch that LK hm kill in which the priest spends the first bit of the fight holy firing and smiting... Just sayin

[huth]

Healers dont do DPS in raids...period.

Because the game consists of only a chain of raids, right? Oh, wait.

[Deleted]

Because the game consists of only a chain of raids, right? Oh, wait.

How about you read my posts more carefully. I was referring to the claim that its not purely PvP boost.

Making resto Druids being able to heal effectively and do dmg at the same time without changing forms will be an unfair advantage over Moonkins and Ferals who will not be able to do that without shapeshifting...IN PVP CONTENT. As if Resto couldnt do dmg anyway by one simple mouse click.

Should probably watch that LK hm kill in which the priest spends the first bit of the fight holy firing and smiting... Just sayin

I am sure he did enourmous DPS in that fight... :

[Deleted]

Regardless of my opinion of this change to how the Tree of Life form functions this is a retarded rationale. It feels unfair? Well lets look at other Druid specc....is it also unfair that Moonkins cant heal but can only cast offensive spells while in Moonkin form? Or what about feral druids? This argument is just fail.

Tree form is fine and removing it will make it unfair for other druids speccs. If resto Druids can now heal and cast offensive spells why not remove Moonkin form so they can also heal and cast offensive spells...or make Bears and Cats casting occasional healing spell? Plus how will resto Druid going to gain anything from this in PVE content? As I can see it can be useful only for PVP and then we go back to creating new unfairaness for other druid speccs. Just keep the passive Tree Form and update the form....thats the charm of playing a Druid. If you dont like it reroll something else.

It's been explained over and over so many times...

As a druid healer, you can do everything in caster form that you can as a Tree. This has almost always been the case. The only difference these days are some passive bonuses as a Tree. Cataclysm will remove all/almost all passive bonuses across *all* classes. So, what is the point of the Tree form at all?

Tree form, as we know now, minus passive bonuses becomes for cosmetic reason only. But wait, what's the point of all that effort Blizzard puts into druid armor if it's not for cosmetic reasons?

All other healing classes are already able to heal and have access to all their utilities in caster form. Why are druids the sole class playing catch-up? It's certainly not because we're "imba"/OP as a Tree (and if you have evidence we are, its certainly not by design). Did you see the Paragon healing comp. for the final 25-man kill of this expansion, for example?

Also, unlike dps, tanks and healers need utilities. It looks like this will especially be the case in Cataclysm due to a greater emphasis on pvp. Forms make sense for dps as hybrids since they have to be specialised to be competitive (feral cat, moonkin, shadowpriest, warrior stances) - they give up utility to be able to go all out on yo' ass!

Form also makes sense for feral tank, if for no other reason than the devs would have to program a whole set of animations and highlights from scratch just to show a druid tank that suddenly they have highly increased health, armor, melee range aoe, a charge ability, and a ton of other feral abilities simultaneously from a one button ability activation (do you know any other single button push that does so much in the game?)!

Don't get me wrong, I'm horrified that they've got rid of the Tree from a looks perspective since I'm so used to it now and the community around it is huge! But all the functional reasons given are compelling and they've even mentioned the possibility of retaining a minor glyph or something for the looks.

What I'm actually worried about, as a healer needing as high sustained healing output as possible in PvE, will be the change in gameplay as a result of the new ToL active ability. All we can do is wait and see what this ability will be.

[Deleted]

Running out of mana doesn't have to be, and won't be, the only reason you fail an encounter. But it is a point of failure that we don't have today. Adding it back in will make the encounters feel more distinct from each other and will actually, we believe, make healing more interesting and ultimately more fun. I agree it's going to be a tough sell though. In one of our playtests recently, the healer came back frazzled. "I couldn't keep everyone topped off," she said. "It took me half the dungeon to realize that I didn't have to." Once that clicked, she said she started having fun. Hopefully it will click with other players quickly too.

Source

It's stuff like the above which worries the hell out of me far more than even what the new ToL ability will be, lol!

It's like most players are focussing not even on the fibres of the rug, but the dust mites on the fibres, when Blizzard have just pulled out the floor from beneath the rug!

[Deleted]

It's been explained over and over so many times...

As a druid healer, you can do everything in caster form that you can as a Tree. This has almost always been the case. The only difference these days are some passive bonuses as a Tree. Cataclysm will remove all/almost all passive bonuses across *all* classes. So, what is the point of the Tree form at all?

Yes I have seen all the explanations and they are simply not satisfactory. What is the point of Moonkin form, what is the point of Feral forms, what is the point of Shadowform? They all give you passive bonuses. You see we can use this argument on other classess and speccs too. The point is -> the core of playing a Druid ARE forms....thats the whole deal. And Resto Droods already have all variety of utilities in Tree form. They have Nature's Grasp, Barksin, etc. They are all usable in ToL form...and if you wanna dps you shapeshift into caster and voila...no difference.

My point is: they could have made it all while retaining the Tree form....but they chose to remove it and put it in some, as it seems now, ridiculous spell which probably wont even be used that much which makes me think they are concentrating on irrelevant stuff. Instead of removing it they could have fix it and add more utilities to be used while in ToL form...as they did until now.

[Deleted]

Yes I have seen all the explanations and they are simply not satisfactory. What is the point of Moonkin form, what is the point of Feral forms, what is the point of Shadowform? They all give you passive bonuses.

Being a Moonkin gives you a ton of new spells, enhancements and mechanics not available in any other spec.
Being in Shadowform gives you a ton of new spells, enhancements and mechanics not available in any other spec.
Being in Feral Cat gives you a ton of new spells, enhancements and mechanics not available in any other spec.
Being in Warrior stances gives you ...etc

You get the point right. Whatever passive bonuses are rolled up in these dps specialisations (most of which are "forms"), they are nothing compared to what the specs give in order to be a competitive damage dealer. This is completely unlike the unique Tree of Life which is exclusively passive.

The point is -> the core of playing a Druid ARE forms....thats the whole deal.

I agree. But Blizzard have realised that they cannot give forms to specs which need to be able to do so much and cannot afford to be specialised, i.e. healers and tanks.

And Resto Droods already have all variety of utilities in Tree form. They have Nature's Grasp, Barksin, etc. They are all usable in ToL form...and if you wanna dps you shapeshift into caster and voila...no difference. My point is: they could have made it all while retaining the Tree form....

Precisely. They want to give *all* current and future caster abilities to Tree of Life. But since all abilities (including all healing) are already available in caster and ToL adds nothing but passive abilities, why would you put all the effort into duplicating all current and future abilities in ToL when you could just get rid of ToL and rollup what it currently gives druids into the normal caster like all other healing classes?

ridiculous spell which probably wont even be used that much which makes me think they are concentrating on irrelevant stuff. Instead of removing it they could have fix it and add more utilities to be used while in ToL form...as they did until now.

Yes, I kind of agree. The new ToL may not be well thought through and tested and either becomes a limiting factor to our healing or becomes almost irrelevant, like Tranquility. But there is literally no way of knowing that for sure until they release more details about it.

[Rudy]

I have a question..
what i understood from the new eclipse is that we have a new ui. When you cast nature (wrath) you buff lunar and viceversa. Assuming this, i think that there will be a 'normal'point without any buff, imagine a circle with solar at left, in the middle normal damage and in the right the lunar one.
Doing this there isn't a period that we aren't on eclipse buff? i mean, now we start casting wrath and maybe after few seconds we are on eclipse, and we can chain eclipse the other.
If there is a spot were we aren't buffed aren t we going to loose some dps only by charging the different buff?

exhample for the bad english

0 buff
10x wrath unbuffed now we are 10x buffed starfire
after those 10 starfires aren't we back to 0 and must push again 10 non buffed starfires to let us cast others buffed wraths?

don t know if i made a clear exhample, now we have the possibility to be always buffed, i misunderstood the talent, that maybe when we are casting the buffed starfire we are already charging the solar? but this doesn t mean that we doesn t have a 'no buffed zone'?

asd sry for terrible english, but i am trying to explain at the best i can :

[huth]

As far as eclipse goes we are still just speculating. All we know about it is that it will be our mastery, affected by mastery rating and there will be some kind of UI element for it with two sides that will somehow be affected by our spells and Nature's torrent in particular.

We also know that the buff is supposed to apply to all nature/arcane damage unlike now.

Sounds like a lot, but we have absolutely no clue how the whole thing is going to work and i'm sure it will be changed several times over the course of the beta.

[Fomlefanten]

[User was banned]

Enjoy your vacation

[frester]

@Rudy

I know what you mean, and i think blizz will do it somehow differently that you will end up doing it like today, but it will be less clunky and less random, but buff will flip at some point then you will spam the other nuke and you will charge eclipse so it can flip again but i'm not sure how fast you will enter that state when fight starts, guess they may mix torrent somewhere in there