queston: Distant Land

[Deleted]

Question: why is Distant Land close to BiS for a feral dps druid.
After compairing the list with all other ICC weapons I honestly do not understand. There is not ArP at all in DL while others have Armourpenetration.

Can someone explain?

[Jeer]

you should be able to arp cap without an arp weapon

[kittenkiller]

And yet Oathbinder is BiS ...
I've been looking at this since i saw your post. I'm pretty sure it just comes down to the FAP from DL.

[rated]

id say bloodfall -> distand land are BiS for tank druids.

More haste = more maul hits.

And all the LK drop weapons can arguably be BiS for each of their respective classes.

When I can get my hands on heroic bloodfall I think id glue it to my taurens hoofs

[littlepiggy]

Question: why is Distant Land close to BiS for a feral dps druid.
After compairing the list with all other ICC weapons I honestly do not understand. There is not ArP at all in DL while others have Armourpenetration.

Can someone explain?

it's one of 2 277 weapons with it giving less of it's item budget to stamina than bloodfall. therefore it is better itemized than bloodfall (for kitty, which is what the topic is about). As someone has stated, the only one better is a 284? and therefore more FAP plus well itemized.

[exochaft]

Question: why is Distant Land close to BiS for a feral dps druid.
After compairing the list with all other ICC weapons I honestly do not understand. There is not ArP at all in DL while others have Armourpenetration.

Can someone explain?

Alright, the reason why Oathbinder is considered BiS is that ilevel 284 AP for druids is a pretty big boost over 277. Arpen values just let you drop sockets in favor of agi or haste.

Now we can back up a bit. For a feral druid, the general progression of stats to max being with Arpen -> crit -> haste. Now, if you're main spec feral kitty, it should be relatively easy to hit arpen cap w/o a weapon if needed. That being said, Distant Land offers crit/haste rating, which are the next in progression to max. This is why Distant Land ranks up high as a good kitty weapon.

[Ameow]

The heroic version is oath is bis based on the agility and ARP it gains, with the heroic distant land not far behind, because when you are arp capped haste more or less becomes your best stat.

In relation to not having to use an ARP weapon for the cap, once I can get a hold of the LK 25 heroic weapon I will as this will allow me to actually gem to the hit cap or maybe even use the heroic cloak from Lootship heroic.

Meow

[Cheezee]

And yet Oathbinder is BiS ...

When in WoLK has the highest Ilvl dps weapon not been BIS?

Journey's End 226
Dreambinder 239
Lupine Longstaff/Twin's Pact 258
Oathbinder 284

It's a pity Shadowmourne wasn't a mace. :'(

[Telaso]

When in WoLK has the highest Ilvl dps weapon not been BIS?

Journey's End 226
Dreambinder 239
Lupine Longstaff/Twin's Pact 258
Oathbinder 284

It's a pity Shadowmourne wasn't a mace. :'(

This.

4049 feral ap, yes please

[Biznick]

Question: why is Distant Land close to BiS for a feral dps druid.
After compairing the list with all other ICC weapons I honestly do not understand. There is not ArP at all in DL while others have Armourpenetration.

Can someone explain?

The amount of feral AP you receive from DL among other stats cause it to outweigh the benefit of ArP. You're just over-estimating the actual value of ArP.

Also, kitty druids hardly scale with gear - the slot that they scale with the most is the weapon slot. So even a small upgrade in iLvl is an upgrade nonetheless, regardless of stats.

[kalky]

I am sorry, I have to disagree here. I have HC distant land (and HC Bloodfall while we're at it, which I use for tanking) but I still think I'll go for normal Oathbinder when it drops only because of sexy arp/crit on it and the fact I'll be able to go back on hit cap and get closer to crit cap. And I'm sure I won't be able to acquire heroic oath any time soon since we're stuck in progress even with 15% buff....damn that real life and slackers who are not showing up for raids...

P.S. Yes, you can call me crazy, but I value more arp/hit/crit (close to cap) then ~200 ap...

[Torzak]

but I still think I'll go for normal Oathbinder when it drops only because of sexy arp/crit on it and the fact I'll be able to go back on hit cap and get closer to crit cap.

Yes, yes you are crazy.

Borderline retarded, maybe.

Heroic Bloodfall is something like ~140 DPS more than normal version Oathbinder which is about 370 more dps than normal Distant Land. The Heroic Distant Land is something like another 40 on top of the Heroic Bloodfall. And that's before counting for the 15% ICC buff.

So you're saying you wouldn't mind to toss out the window ~180 DPS (before ICC buff) to downgrade your weapon, spend time, effort, and/or gold on new enchant/gems, possibly take a weapon from another druid or hunter. oknp

If you're pro and it was an upgrade, I wouldn't have a problem with taking a two-hand weapon from a hunter at all.

What makes it crazy, and more specifically, borderline retarded, is that you don't mind to blow time/effort on enchanting/gemming a downgraded weapon, and then actually using it to raid. People get downgrades all the time; they like the looks, it was something they always wanted and it never dropped, etc, but they don't tend to actually use it when it's serious time if it's a downgrade compared to something else they have.

And I'm sure I won't be able to acquire heroic oath any time soon since we're stuck in progress even with 15% buff....damn that real life and slackers who are not showing up for raids...

You mean slackers who want downgrades to raid with?

[kalky]

Yes, yes you are crazy.

Borderline retarded, maybe.

and

You mean slackers who want downgrades to raid with?

Was this really necessary? Do you feel better inside when you insult complete stranger (and his friends) without knowing anything whatsoever about him or his friends, causes why he/they cannot raid and all other big and small reasons why he/she wrote something? Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulted by your remarks but you did make me question myself is it possible to take your post for serious with that kind of attitude. Have you checked my armory to see why am I thinking about taking oathbinder in a first place? You see, your reasons are not valid when you act like douche and you will be treated like one in return. Jaiie on the other hand posted quality facts and now I'm question my options again. I will probably have opportunity to get my hands on Oathbinder (but after hunters, same ones I promised I'll pass for) and test it on dummy and in raid, curious to compare results since I will be able to regem, gain more hit, more crit (better cp's generation) for a cost of haste/ap.

Yes, mr. douche, I can afford to resocket every day if I want, twice even

Thanks again Jaiie for constructive criticism.

[Deleted]

No problem. I've noticed a lot of forum goers (regardless of the forum) tend to flame first and ask questions later. I prefer, instead, to provide logic, math, and supporting reasons where possible. That's easier to deal with than emotional diarrhea.

But, as I mentioned in my post, you should tend to want to almost always go for the higher ilevel item due to the weapon dps being a much greater dps contribution than the other stats on the weapon (armor pen, agi, haste, crit). The secondary stats are only a primary consideration when weapon dps is equal (e.g. items of the same ilevel). :-)

At the risk of being retarded I am gonna ask anyway: you say higher Ilvl. My compairson was regarding ICC 25 (ilvl 264) and than Distant Land is BIS. Still without a shred of arp. I know I properbly blowing ArP out of proposion *consider plz I am not hardcapped yet*

thanks everyone taking time to answer

[scorch109]

He's probably referring to cryptmaker.

[Torzak]

Do you feel better inside when you insult complete stranger (and his friends) without knowing anything whatsoever about him or his friends, causes why he/they cannot raid and all other big and small reasons why he/she wrote something?

I've not insulted your friends for not being able to raid or having personal things to deal with. You can't seem to read or you're trying too hard to turn this around. Not once, in even the smallest way, have I discriminated your guild for having people unable to show for a raid night. Instead, what I did, was turn your comment back around on you. As in: Are you sure it's because people can't make the raid nights, or is it because someone is about to throw 200 DPS out the window? 'Cause that kind of thinking is pretty goofy.

I've noticed a lot of forum goers (regardless of the forum) tend to flame first and ask questions later. I prefer, instead, to provide logic, math, and supporting reasons where possible. That's easier to deal with than emotional diarrhea.

I have run the numbers. There is no emotional diarrhea to be dealt with.

Heroic Distant Land is greater than Normal Oathbinder. And I don't care about one's ability to enchant a weapon twice a day lol. That wasn't the point at all. I'm sorry the point was missed. I'll clearly state: It's goofy for wanting Oathbinder because it's a downgrade that would be enchanted/gemmed and then actually used for progression. You see the underline? There was some in my first post too.

[kalky]

@ Mr. Internet Superhero

Please, go back and read what you wrote, don't skip insults while reading. And if you don't care about certain things like ability to enchant or regem all gear set twice a day then you shouldn't point it out in a first place. By the way, I have never seen your armory or anything. Do you use HC Distant land? Or normal Oath? Or HC oath? Do you have anything but theory to back up your words?

@ topic

Yes, I will definitely try it out, just to see how does it works in real situation. I never said I'm not happy with current weapon I have now. Theorycrafting is one thing, real raid situations with wol to analyze is something else. Of course, I will post feedback here when I manage to get my hands on it, together with wol to back it up.

[Duilliath]

Kalky, before you spout off on 'theory' vs 'real encounters', think of the following:

By the time you get enough 'real encounters' for the statistical flukes to be gone (ie. raid setup, crit streaks, omen of clarity procs, combat resses and whatever), you will be level 100. At least.

There's a reason people advise you the way they do. It's because downgrading is pretty darn foolish when you're actually still trying to progress through things. Scratch that - it's a pretty darn foolish idea always.

People are giving you an answer. Why is it BiS? Well, because it is. It even was clearly explained to you why. You not liking the answer does not change anything about that situation.

[kalky]

Hey, I said "I'll try it out", not "I'll swap to it and stick it in my ass so I'll never separate from it", come on ;D What's with all this hatred all of a sudden...

[Torzak]

Please, go back and read what you wrote, don't skip insults while reading.

Done. And I see nothing directed to your friends/guild. Nothing. You know why? Because nothing "was" directed at your friends or guild. I think it's you that needs to go read it again.

And if you don't care about certain things like ability to enchant or regem all gear set twice a day then you shouldn't point it out in a first place

You should learn to read things in context.

So you're saying you wouldn't mind to toss out the window ~180 DPS (before ICC buff) to downgrade your weapon, spend time, effort, and/or gold on new enchant/gems, possibly take a weapon from another druid or hunter. oknp

The key there, is the part where I mentioned the downgraded weapon. The opening 180 DPS loss mentioned in that sentence should have been your clue. The fact that you will have enchanted the downgraded weapon "just to try it", or possibly have taken it from someone else that could use it would just be icing on the cake. Not the main focus.

Do you use HC Distant land? Or normal Oath? Or HC oath?

Actually, unfortunately for me, Heroic Distant Land has not yet dropped for our guild. I do, however, have Heroic Bloodfall which finally dropped after 3 of those mp5 trinkets in a row. And being that I do have Heroic Bloodfall, I won't be attempting to roll Heroic Distant Land except as off spec to prevent it from being DE'd.

What's with all this hatred all of a sudden...

You basically asked for it:

P.S. Yes, you can call me crazy, but I value more arp/hit/crit (close to cap) then ~200 ap...

Anyone with half a brain can gather from this that what you mean to say is that you would value the i271 weapon more than the i277 weapon because you value arp/hit/crit instead of looking at what the weapon as a whole actually does for you. You've glossed over the i277 weapon and in your mind have devalued it just because it doesn't appear to be itemized right, when in fact, it's simply a better weapon.

It's simply a matter of the words you chose to use in your first post there. "Call me crazy, but I value an i271 weapon more than the i277 weapon" is what you may as well have said.